PPL Air Law Help Needed!

[FirstOfficerTom]

Hello everyone,
I was going through a confuser and found a question I really don't know anything about or understand.

"Even when operating under VFR in uncontrolled airspace, pilots are advised in pursuit safe vertical separation in accordance with the 'Quadrantal or Semicircular Rule', whichever is applicable. Given an MSA of 3000ft and an estimated drift of 9 degrees to port and a regional pressure setting of 1009hpa, the cruising level for a track of 086 degreesT where the local variation is 4 degrees West would be:

A - FL30
B - FL35
C - FL40
D - FL45"

I would really appreciate it if someone could explain this to me, I understand the Quadtrantal and Semicircular rules but I dont know how I should factor in drift and the other variables in the question :ugh:

Thanks in advance

Tom

[TractorBoy]

I would really appreciate it if someone could explain this to me, I understand the Quadtrantal and Semicircular rules but I dont know how I should factor in drift and the other variables in the question


You don't. Drift is a red herring in these questions. The Quad rules apply to magnetic track, not heading. Hence normal track is 086, Mag ver 4 west, then mag track is 090.

Hence you want FL035 (Odds + 5).

You also need to confirm it clears MSA, which it does (its 3500 - (4 * 30)) ft i.e. 3380ft. The 4 *30 comes from pressure being 4hpa less than 1013. Because its less, you're lower than the FL.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

These are always completely stupid trick questions within a degree or two of NSEW to try to get you to pick the wrong level because of getting the variation wrong or the drift wrong or forgetting whether it's 0<=x<90 or 0<x<=90, none of which matters in real life as you're not flying that accurately anyway so who cares.

[Crash one]

0<=x<90 or 0<x<=90, none of which matters in real life as you're not flying that accurately anyway so who cares.

Until they have successfully passed the exam, everyone cares, regardless of how stupid the question is you still have to get it right.
My opinion in this case is that it matters not a jot which way the aircraft is pointing. It could be a helicopter flying backwards, so drift is irrelevant. It is which direction (true) it is traveling, I think 090T at 4deg var. Although I stand to be corrected.

[WILCO.XMG]

Sorry to steal in your thread but have a question that is bugging the life out of me.

Ok im revising my Met and Air Law exams now. Have Met material covered and have been doing practice questions via the PPL Perfector which may i add is the bible.

However one is very contradictory. Simple question;

When QFE is set on subscale what will it indicate;
1. Altitude above aerodrome surface
2. Altitude AMSL
3. Height above aerodrome surface
4. Elevation AMSL

Well according to Air Law Material (which i am revising at the minute) it should be Height above airfield. However the answer in the Perfector states it is Altitude above airfield.

Should i go along with the PPL Perfector as its questions have been VERY simalar to what have been in the exam? Or go with Air Law.

Strage one huh?

[Whirlygig]

PPL Perfector which may i add is the bibleIt's patently not.

Cheers

Whirls

[mad_jock]

Altitude is always in reference to sea level and is done on QNH.

Height is above the local ground which for an aerodrome runway will be obtained by setting the QFE.

Its not strange at all, your answer book is wrong

[WILCO.XMG]

Thats what i thought but if i answer QFE = Height and the CAA mark me wrong i am writing a very stern letter.

:E

[thing]

I have to say that having passed the last of my exams recently there are some iffy answers even in the actual papers, never mind confusers, exam books etc.

[Whirlygig]

and the CAA mark me wrongUnless things are very different in Ireland, it'll be your school who marks your PPL paper and they will go through your answers with you.

As I think you've demonstrated to yourself, rely on your studies rather than Q&A books.

Cheers

Whirls

[2 sheds]

When QFE is set on subscale what will it indicate;
1. Altitude above aerodrome surface
2. Altitude AMSL
3. Height above aerodrome surface
4. Elevation AMSL

I find it rather worrying that the author of the referenced book obviously thinks that the above is an acceptable way of writing multi-choice answers. Ideally, all the incorrect answers should be plausible but nevertheless demonstrably incorrect, whereas in this example they are just phrased stupidly. In the case of the nearest one to a correct answer (No 3, as you say, Wilco), even that is inaccurate as a definition. In fact, if it is quoted correctly, even the question is wrong (what is "it"?)!

2 s

[Jim59]

Many airfields have multiple QFEs in force at the same time. An unqualified (airield) QFE means that when the altimeter subscale is set to the QFE the altimeter displays your height above the airfield reference point (usually the mid-point of the main runway). You may be offered a runway threshold QFE, which is relevent for a sloping runway, and then the alimeter will display your height above the threshold for that runway. That will only apply if the runway threshold is more than 7' below the reference point for airfield QFE.

[2 sheds]

Definition:
QFE - Altimeter subscale setting to indicate height above either aerodrome elevation, or threshold elevation, or helideck elevation
- not aerodrome reference point.

2 s

[keith williams]

WILCO.XMG

I am the author of the PPL PERFECTOR.

I have delayed responding to your question because I wanted to do some further research on the current state of the exam papers. On the basis of that research I can assure you that the two QNH and QFE questions in the MET chapter of the book are no longer in the current exam papers. So you will not be caught out by them in your MET exam. But the QNH and QFE questions in the AIR LAW chapter are still in use. QNH gives Altitude. QFE gives height.


2 sheds


I find it rather worrying that the author of the referenced book obviously thinks that the above is an acceptable way of writing multi-choice answers.


Your comment would be valid if I were in the business of inventing the questions for my books, but I am not.

The PPL PERFECTOR contains real questions and answers from the UK JAR PPL Exams. My views on whether or not the questions are well constructed are irrelevant. I simply take the questions and answers and construct explanations for them.

I suspect that WILCO's comment that the PPL Perfector which may I add is the bible is a reflection of the fact that the questions and answers in the PPL PERFECTOR are very representative of those that he/she has found in the examinations.

[BEagle]

The PPL PERFECTOR contains real questions and answers from the UK JAR PPL Exams.

Well, I'm sure the CAA will have something to say about that! 'Real' exam questions are confidential and subject to copyright.

Your statement will probably require the CAA to consider withdrawing all the current papers. And if people continue to leak 'actual' questions into the public domain, you may well find that ATOs will no longer be permitted to hold copies of the PPL exams.

[2 sheds]

Keith - my apologies for accusing you of writing such shoddy questions if, in fact, you only copied them verbatim from UK PPL exam papers. And thank you for the recognition that my observation per se was valid.

How is it that you are able not only to copy them but to ascertain that certain questions are no longer used in current exam papers?

My views on whether or not the questions are well constructed are irrelevant. So you accept rubbish like this as appropriate revision material? It smacks of encouraging "exam technique" rather than teaching understanding. And according to Wilco.xmg, the stated answer was wrong!

I fear that your support of Wilco's description of your tome as the "bible" could prove premature - as I understand it, he/she has not yet passed!

2 s

[BEagle]

Just to reinforce my previous comment, I suggest that Mr Williams notes the following from Standards Document 11:

All CAA Examination papers are subject to copyright and unauthorised copying is a breach of this copyright.

Ground Examiners must take adequate precautions to ensure that applicants are not able to obtain prior knowledge of the contents of the Examination papers or answers.

In theory, anyone obtaining prior knowledge of the PPL examination papers through the purchase of a book containing '...real questions and answers from the UK JAR PPL Exams' is liable to disqualification and could have all their exam passes deemed invalid. As any CEP will know, the CAA are highly protective of the examination papers and insists that they are held securely. Whether or not the Authority is currently aware of 'PPL Perfector', I don't know.

Yet.

[keith williams]

How is it that you are able not only to copy them but to ascertain that certain questions are no longer used in current exam papers?


I think that you are reading far too much into my statement that I needed to do further research. This does not mean that I have a mole in the CAA or in an ATO somewhere. I do not.

Each copy of my book contains an update sheet that is based on feedback from other users, plus an invitation to provide feedback from their own exams. Although many users do not provide any feedback, most are keen to benefit from the feedback provided by others.

But a significant number of users do provide feedback regularly. This is usually fragmentary, so I need to add together the individual pieces to form a coherent picture. You will find that every ATPL school employs exactly the same process and the CAA have never objected. If you wish to see such a system in action go to the bristol.gs website forum and look at the feedback threads.

This type of system is quite good at detecting new questions, but it is not at all good at detecting when a question has been deleted. So to research the subject of this thread I needed to go back to some of the users who had provided feedback following their MET and LAW exams.

The CAA Standards Document 11 gives the current issue states of all of the PPL exams. Most exam candidates know which exam they took because it is recorded on their exam papers and on their PPL application form. By going back to people who had provided feedback on their MET and LAW exams I was able to confirm that the questions were no longer in the exam papers.

Your argument that using a book which contains real questions might cause students to be penalised is not realistic. It ignores the fact that virtually all ATPL and CPL students use on-line question banks, that inlcude vast numbers of real JAR questions. The CAA has been aware of this for many years and has never taken any action against the FTOs or the students.

I do not claim to have knowledge of all of the questions that are included in the PPL exam paper. But through my (perfectly legal) feedback collection system I have been able to produce a book that contains a significant number of real questions.

Judging by the tone of your post I suspect that your first action on Monday morning will be to call the CAA. You are of course free to do so, but it might be better if you were to ponder the matter for a while in order to avoid overstating the problem.

[2 sheds]

Keith

You claimed earlier that
The PPL PERFECTOR contains real questions and answers from the UK JAR PPL Exams.
which implies that the questions are word-for-word from examination papers and the answers are the "approved" answers.

However, do we now infer correctly that it is a compendium of questions and answers, as recalled to a greater or lesser degree of accuracy by various candidates? If so, perhaps that is why the quoted question is so poorly constructed! So who really did write that sequence of words?

2 s

[BEagle]

So which is it, kieth williams, misleading advertising or breach of copyright?

Your material is being sold with the following accompanying description :
Contains real JAR PPL questions taken from current examination papers, plus detailed explanations, many with full colour illustrations.


Your CD-ROM is being sold as including:

706 JAR PPL Questions
Step-by-step solutions to all calculations
Fully illustrated solutions to all navigation questions

[g0lfer]

Easy way to remember it. When on the ground set the QFE in the sub scale and look at the reading which will be zero i.e. Height is zero but you may still be several hundred feet above sea level and still on the ground.

[HowlingMad Murdock]

g0lfer - succinctly putt - nice:)