View Full Version : Rather them than me Dept
PPRuNeUser0139
28th Jul 2011, 07:44
Sporty heli landing on (http://aewa.aewa.org/pipermail/aewa/attachments/20110727/5cf86ea4/attachment.wmv) in rough weather..
Danish navy?:D
NutLoose
28th Jul 2011, 11:02
I'll second that....... very impressive.
Cor Blimey!!
HDMS Ejnar Mikkelsen a Danish navy patrol vessel
Tourist
28th Jul 2011, 12:45
...and that's why we think that the RAF are pussies.......
jamesdevice
28th Jul 2011, 12:55
could an RAF Merlin handle that?
Fluffy Bunny
28th Jul 2011, 12:59
Not on your life ... no tie downs or rotor/tail fold...
but then again the gearbox would probably have packed up somewhere just off the coast anyhow...
dangermouse
28th Jul 2011, 16:13
and I think we all know the answer to that one.
dedicated aircraft designed to land on small ships, land on small ships, that means very few:
Naval Lynx, NH90 NFH, SH60, Merlin Mk1, Seasprite..
BTW a Mk3 could probably handle getting on the deck, better tail rotor authority and higher MGB ratings than a Mk1, staying on the deck is a different matter, although submin is technically available, note that even this Lynx is engaging its deck lock.
DM
Willard Whyte
28th Jul 2011, 16:25
I'd be trying to get off a boat moving like that in the water, not trying to land on the damn thing.
chinook240
28th Jul 2011, 16:45
Tremendous skill! Wonder what the SHOL is for that deck?
PICKS135
28th Jul 2011, 17:37
Ready to be yelled at but thought I'd ask anyway.
WHY ?:eek: :eek:
It's peacetime why risk the crew of the Lynx or the groundcrew ? The FDO, has got big oval things standing in that position awaiting the landing.
I realize that these things have to be practiced or that the sea state may have been moderate when they launched. But it just seems to me a bit dodgy.
I'm ready for the incoming
Picks135,
The video is of testing to confirm whether all those calculations and measurements had been correct.
All the wind measurements on and above decks for turbulence flows, along with rate of change of deck angles and movement measurements is great. As is modelling and computery whizzery. Unfortunately it gets to a stage where some one actually has to go and try it.
Then pilots, aircrew, and ships crew all have to practice it. No point just doing it when a war breaks out, or someone needs rescuing. You will fail. It must be practiced to maintain competency.
Chinook240
Wonder what the SHOL is for that deck?
From the video I would say the weather was a Force 7 with wave heights averaging 8 metres trough to crest and wave length of about sixty metres. The conditions appear worse due to the fact that HDMS Ejnar Mikkelsen is not tackling the waves pointy end on.
The above are guesstimates from the video.
alfred_the_great
28th Jul 2011, 19:03
in for pitch, in for role, giving a green....
note that he picked a quiescent period (roll-wise at least), before committing.
WAFUs - paid faster, not more.
althenick
28th Jul 2011, 21:02
...and that's why we think that the RAF are pussies.......
unless this film is more than a year old then its an RDAF Lynx not sure about the Aircrew though
see Danish Naval Air Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Naval_Air_Squadron)
Unchecked
28th Jul 2011, 21:21
Yeah, I think Tourist has forgotten his nationality. Mind you, the RN appear to forget all reality when trying to belittle the Crabs just lately.
Tourist
29th Jul 2011, 07:51
1. It was blatantly banter, so unclench your cheeks.
2. It matters not which Navy, we all sail on the same waves. Danish ships move very similarly to RN ships strangely enough.:rolleyes:
3. Who says I my only passport is British?
foldingwings
29th Jul 2011, 09:41
What skill? What a lack of sanity and airmanship, I'd suggest!
What was the operational necessity?
What was the value of standing off over a seriously pitching deck only to 'land on' on what was a relatively flat calm platform in the end.
Training value! Nope, I disagree, hval. Please tell us what training value there is in looking at a seriously pitching deck other than to realise that there is no point in attempting it!
If he had departed that deck previously, where was the diversion?
If there was no diversion, why did he launch?
Crass stupidity if you ask me (but you didn't)!
Foldie:ok:
PS. Evidently a 'pussie', but one who has operated off the deck of one of HM's DDs!
Tourist
29th Jul 2011, 10:29
It's a SHOL trial, ie test pilots working out where the edge of the deck use envelope is.
It is normal to wait for the quiessent period before landing.
Nothing abnormal or unprofessional about that video at all. Nicely handled.
Oh, and diversion not required or normal. That is why it is neccessary for all Navy pilots to practise when it is frisky.
Good morning Foldingwings,
Don't be so shy and retiring I say, why not come right out and say what you mean. (humour Foldie, just humour).
The aircrews first diversion was the much larger vessel besides the poor ol' little Ejnar Mikkelson. Next of, this was a trial. Need to confirm model data and need to confirm in realistic conditions. By changing which way the pointy end of the ship is, with respect to the waves, you have an immediate effect on "rock & roll". The conditions shown were within predicted acceptable limits.
As for practice, one must always practice. There will always be a time where you need this capability. Normally when such a capability is required the weather is crap. Without practice, chances are you will fail. With practice you succeed. You don't leap in to landing on ships decks in gale force winds, Force 12 wave heights, etc. immediately; You work your way up.
After all the military have a requirement to carry out tasks in all conditions. Can't just stop hunting that Yassen class submarine who is out to get you, just because of a little weather.
foldingwings
29th Jul 2011, 10:46
That'll be Glesca humour, hval! I recognise that, as it's ma hame toon!
Now, sort out the difference between the noun 'practice' and the verb 'to practise' and then I'll believe you! (humour hval, just humour).
Foldie:ok:
Foldie,
Aye but, whoops! Well noticed. Shall write practice & practise 1,000 times.
Now I know you are a Wegie, means I don't have to be so gentle.
Test pilots or not, I think they are barking mad to even look at the little deck on that gunboat (which looks as if it would be more comfortable on inland waterways).
Any sane person knows that runways should be long, straight and preferabaly not moving in any axis (choice of colour is optional, but most seem to be black - unless they are grass, of course).
And before y'all leap in and tell me that the mini quoits deck at the back of the boat is not a runway, I know what FATOs, TLOFs, Helidecks and Elevated Platforms are (although I'm not sure if these terms are widely used in mil helo parlance).
As for training for all future scenarios, I wonder how the Japanese pilots engaged in Kamikaze operations prepared for their ultimate role.
Mr B
glojo
29th Jul 2011, 12:17
What skill? What a lack of sanity and airmanship, I'd suggest!
What was the operational necessity?
What was the value of standing off over a seriously pitching deck only to 'land on' on what was a relatively flat calm platform in the end.
Training value! Nope, I disagree, hval. Please tell us what training value there is in looking at a seriously pitching deck other than to realise that there is no point in attempting it!
If he had departed that deck previously, where was the diversion?
If there was no diversion, why did he launch?
Crass stupidity if you ask me (but you didn't)!
Diversion??? :rolleyes::):) I confess that ship does appear tpo be close to land but when far out to sea or operating in areas where the nearest land is not a place you would want to 'land' then diversion is NOT an option.
I have regularly witnessed Westland Wasp's landing on deck in similar if not worse conditions. I guess the very worse I have personally witnessed was on the deck of one of Her Majesty's finest in very similar if more severe conditions...
The ship was involved in operations off the coast of Iceland and needed to refuel. This meant men on the upper deck in storm to violent storm force conditions and being exposed to a huge risk of being washed overboard in the freezing winter seas. (The decks\superstructure of the warships are coated in grease to prevent the ship icing) Having a helicopter taking station off the ship's quarter might be symbolic but by crikey it is reassuring to those risking their own lives on the upper deck.
The pilot on the relevant ship who was on attachment refused to launch, stating conditions were far too hazardous, the senior ship's pilot carried out the task and at the same time collected mail plus other correspondence from the ship that was running on fumes. Amazing flying skills and credit to the deck crew that had to run out and very quickly lash the thing down.
I understand criticism of attempting this for no apparent good reason but how do we gain this type of skill? Special Forces are landed from warships and it is much better to sneak them in when the wind is a blowin' and the rain is a rainin' and the opposition is taking shelter from the elements.
Is it wise to have not trained for this and just hope you can manage to put the thing down and there will be times when it will be at night with little or absolutely no deck lighting..
Much respect to our Fleet Air Arm pilots and of course all those from other Navies that perform these hazardous tasks.