Getting medals back to descendants

[A2QFI]

A work colleague has been left, by her late father, 2 WW1 medals which (I guess) he bought, they were not awarded to him. They are campaign medals but he was also the awarded an AFC, London Gazette 9th January 1919, so he survived the war and he is not listed on the CWGC site, as deceased in action. In 1919 he was Capt (acting Major) H A Tweedie.

It would be nice to get the medals to the officer's descendants. Please may I have some ideas as to what to try now. I got the info I have from Google and a nil return from CWGC. Thank you.

(MODS please move this if I am in the wrong forum!)

[RAFEngO74to09]

I can't help on what to do next but out of interest I found this. Looks like the good officer transferred to the RAF, went to India and was awarded the OBE for action in Somaliland (London Gazette 22 Jul 20).

flying offr | somaliland | russia | 1920 | 0822 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1920/1920%20-%200822.html)

[RAFEngO74to09]

I just found this. Hopefully the full name will assist your search.

RAF officer deaths 12.11.18-31.12.28 (http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?313-RAF-officer-deaths-12.11.18-31.12.28)

[Old-Duffer]

Write to Personnel Disclosures at Cranwell, explain what you are trying to do and ask if they will send your letter to the last known NoK.

Or, advertise in RAF News

O-D

[RAFEngO74to09]

Killed in a flying accident in Amman, Transjordan, aged 37, only surviving son of Mrs Alec Tweedie (nee Harley).

rolls-royce | 1926 | 0308 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926%20-%200308.html)

The accident was in a DH9A of 14 Sqn.

royal highness | light plane | cup race | 1926 | 0325 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1926/1926%20-%200325.html)

[RAFEngO74to09]

There were no surviving siblings and his mother was a famous (for those times) travel writer.

"Mrs Alec Tweedie (1861/2-1940), was one such and was among the first women professional travel writers. Born into comfortable circumstances and marrying into more comfortable ones, she suddenly found herself widowed, fatherless, and destitute. She had a taste for travel, and decided to support herself and her two sons by travelling and writing about her experiences."

Recreation and pastimes, pt 2 (http://www.oup.com/oxforddnb/info/dictionary/newsletters/newsletter8/8cont/)

[jamesdevice]

his mother appears to have been an adventuress

This is one of her books
An adventurous journey, Russia ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=5lo9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=%28%22harley+alec+tweedie%22%29+-george&source=bl&ots=WsRw94ltdj&sig=Yire1lEeoVhFsZhw8BauIUciJh4&hl=en&ei=ptItTrz8ItCwhQe0-cH3BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%28%22harley%20alec%20tweedie%22%29%20-george&f=false)

seems she and her husband spent some time travelliing the world

[A2QFI]

I am truly moved by the effort and kindness of people in digging up information which my colleague and I might have found, in the fullness of time. Thank you for your time and efforts!!!!

[RAFEngO74to09]

A2QFI

You're welcome - I enjoyed doing the detective work. I never cease to be amazed at the power of Google !

I think Sqn Ldr Tweedie may have been single as a wife was not referred to in the obituary and therefore it is possible that there are no surviving relatives (he had one brother who died before him).

He may well have been CO 14 Sqn at the time of his death in a flying accident so it might be worth checking with 14 Sqn Association (now that 14 Sqn has disbanded) to see who has the diaries / photo albums - there may be further clues there.

Given Sqn Ldr Tweedie's distinguished career (OBE and AFC by age 31 !) and the fact that his mother was a well-known travel writer at a time when most people contemplating worldwide travel would have got their information / recommendations from books, it is probable that your colleague's father did purchase the medals because of the stories behind them.

Also, I see that some of the references to his mother are as "Mrs Alec-Tweedie" so perhaps he had a double-barrelled surname and some of the press reports were inaccurate (nothing changed there then !) or his surname was "Alec Tweedie" without a hyphen.

[A2QFI]

Just to show that I have managed to find some info myself here is a link to another distinguished pilot who was killed on the same date and place as Sqn Ldr Tweedie, in the same aircraft one supposes

Stanley Wallage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Wallage)


For the benefit of anybody who is following this may I reccommend the excellent excellent book site AbeBooks Official Site - New & Secondhand Books, New &Used Textbooks, Rare & Out of Print Books (http://www.abebooks.co.uk)

I used it this morning and found over 400 copies of Mrs Tweedies's travel books for sale and some are also available as e book downloads

The internet is your friend!

[McGoonagall]

Years ago, when car boot sales were in their infancy I picked up a WWI group to a Lt in the Warwickshire regiment. The cost was negligible but the name seemed vaguely familiar. A few weeks later I realised that the name was the same one that was on a village memorial I passed every day on the way to work.

I checked it out and it was the same chap. The problem then was that if I managed to trace any relatives, had they sold the medals on themselves? I visited the vicar of the church where the memorial was and he did some work and told me that there were, to his knowledge, no living relatives that he could find. I gave him the medals and was delighted to receive a photograph of them framed and hanging in the church beside a memorial tablet to the parishes fallen. At least they wont find themselves being hawked around for a few quid again.

[A2QFI]

That was a good result all round, well done McG! I doubt that we shall have such success as our deceased had no siblings SFAIK but we shall try. The medals have an interesting background, see posts above. Perhaps they will be sold and the money given to a Military Charity. I am trying to do more research thru the 14 Sqn Association website but it doesn't seem to get traffic and the Sqn has just been disbanded.

[McGoonagall]

It may be a long shot, but as the name Tweedie is a sept of the Fraser clan and he was a decorated son of a well known person, then this lady could have information about his fathers side?

Fraserchief (http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/index.html)

There is a contact button on the top right. Perhaps an email wouldn't hurt.

[jamesdevice]

Hansons Auctioneers held a sale of the effects of the mother's estate in 2009 - see Antique and Collectors Auction - Mrs Alec Tweedie (http://www.hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/pages/antique-auction100609.php)

They may well have details of whoever her descendents are: someone must have been responsible for the sale

this is the catalogue from the auction. There are some medels listed, but I don't see anything matching these.
http://www.hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/pdfs/auction-10-06-09.pdf

[Tankertrashnav]

I am impressed by all the help you have been given on this thread A2GFI, and I applaud your intentions, so I hope the following won't put a damper on things.

In over 30 years of dealing in medals, I have often been amazed by the lack of interest shown by people in their relatives' medals. I have had people come in and offer me medals when the recipient was barely cold in his grave. On one extreme occasion the vendor wanted a quick sale as he was "just down for a few days for my father's funeral" and wanted to clear as much "stuff" while he was in the area. Needless to say I bought those medals as cheaply as I could! On another occasion when I tracked down the son of a soldier whose superb photo album I had bought, he was completed uninterested, and didnt even want to come in and have a look through it.

For my own part, souvenirs I have of my late father's military service are some of my proudest possessions, but be warned, not everyone thinks as you and I do. Looking at jamesdevice's post it is quite possible that the people you are looking for are the ones who sold these medals at auction.

[A2QFI]

Thanks for your interesting input TTN. I have no knowledge of how/when my friend's father came by the medals and she can't ask him, now. The Sqn Ldr had an AFC and an OBE which are not the medals she has. The Sqn Ldr's mother died in 1940 and her things were not auctioned until 2009 and the medals did not appear in the auction catalogue, I am told. It may well be that they they were disposed of as useless baubles by relatives but I think we should try and reunite them with the family. I have contacted the auctioneers to try and find out who put the estate up for auction.

[Tankertrashnav]

One good thing, both the OBE and the AFC are unnamed medals. Should the ultimate owners be interested they can always buy an example of each (the AFC wont be cheap though) and restore the group to the full original entitlement.

[jamesdevice]

after re-reading the original posting I suspect these two medals may be lot 221 from the auction:

"221 A WW1 Defence medal and Victory medal (2)"

In which case it would seem likely that they were indeed discarded by the lady's inheiritors, as suspected by Tanketrashnav

[A2QFI]

What a crying shame! After all the digging and delving and amazing results achieved it turns out that the younger generation aren't that concerned about the exploits of their distinguished relative. My final thanks to James and our man in Arizona who did so much work on this little project.

[Tankertrashnav]

Cant say I'm much surprised at the result from the family - matches my own experiences over the years.

OK, so here's an idea. If your colleague is not much interested in these medals, and was prepared to give them away, why doesnt she auction them and donate the proceeds to, say, the RAF Benevolent Fund (or any other charity of her choice)? The medals were badly described at the original auction and were probably bought cheaply. With the research now done, they would do very well. A pair to a Captain entitled to the AFC would certainly make a decent 3 figure sum. Use a specialist military auctioneer, or else online auctioneers, as long as a decent comprehensive description is given with all the info that has been obtained.

[jamesdevice]

makes you wonder what these lots from the same auction were:

222 A WW1 Victory medal, Notts and Derby 10-20
223 Five 19th century interesting military badges, 19th century 20-30
224 Assorted military buttons and a miniature medal, and an RAC badge 10-20

the numbers at the end of each line were estimated value
223 especially - I wonder what those really were?

[jamesdevice]

just did a search at Search for People, Businesses and Places - 192.com (http://www.192.com) for London for the name Tweedie
As you can expect there are a fair number of them, but there are around eight electoral roll entries for people whose name is "something A Tweedie"
Some of those may very well be related. To get the actual address details you have to pay
However reading between the lines I'd guess that one of the elder family members had been living in the mothers Devonshire House flat, and when he/she died no-one could afford the flat (or had a need for it) so the contents were sold. Not being lineal descendants they may not have known the history

[teeteringhead]

Thread Drift Warning Red! - for which I apologise, but it seems there is much medal expertise on here, which I'd like to tap into.

My late father was a fireman (he would have hated the term "firefighter") in London in WW2 and was entitled to the Defence Medal (only that one I think). Typically of the "guv'nor" he didn't bother to collect his on the principle that "if everyone's got one, what's the point of having one". I disagree!

A while back I was told to write to the Cabinet Office as they dealt with Emergency Services' medals, but I've had no reply from them.

Any of you experts point me in the right direction? PM or publicly on the thread I don't mind.

And apologies again for the drift - seemed too good an opportunity to miss. :ok:

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Not sure if this helps but I have found this:

1891 Census;

TWEEDIE, Alexander L Head Married M 41 1850 Marine Insurance Broker, born India
TWEEDIE, Ethel B Wife Married F 29 1862 Authoress, born London
TWEEDIE, Harley L Alexander Son M 2 1889, born London
TWEEDIE, Leslie K Son M 1 1890, born London
HARRIS, Elizabeth Servant Single F 32 1859 Cook Domestic Servant, born Dolton, Devonshire
COULTHART, Elizabeth Servant Single F 22 1869 House Maid Domestic Servant born Penrith, Cumberland
SHAFFARD, Mary Servant Single F 22 1869 Parlour Maid Domestic Servant, born Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire
LEECH, Emily E Servant Single F 19 1872 Nurse Domestic Servant, born Ipswich, Suffolk

All living at 30 York Terrace, Marylebone, London.

wells.
Also ref his brother; From CWGC.

L K Tweedie
Nationality: United Kingdom
Second Lieutenant
Royal Field Artillery
"C" Bty. 72nd Bde.
Age: 24
D o D: 17/01/1916
Son of Mr. and Mrs. Alec Tweedie, of 2, Whitehall Court, London. B.A.
Cam. Born in London.
Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: III. A. 6.
VERMELLES BRITISH CEMETERY

So somewhere out there are his brothers WWI medals.

Perhaps more when I get time.

Aaron.


1911 Census - Harley A. Tweedie was a medical student. Possibly in London. He was staying the night of the census as a visitor at Bidborough Hall, Tunbridge Wells.

[chip pax]

teeteringhead

Check PM.

[jamesdevice]

teeteringhead

see Claiming for campaign medals (http://www.veterans-uk.info/medals/claiming.html)

my father got his WW2 medals last year. They responded pretty quickly once the application went in. You'll need to submit full details of where / when he was stationed / served

[teeteringhead]

Chip pax and jamesdevice - many thanks to you both. The LFB (London Fire Brigade) archivist sent me copies of a number of documents, including my father's original application - in his own handwriting. It was bittersweet to recognise the writing - 25 years after his death.

I will never cease to be amazed by Pprune and its expertise.

[BravoWhisky7A]

Here's a copy of Mr Tweedy's medal record card from WW1:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dogpo/HarleyTweedy.jpg

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Harley was awarded his Royal Aero Club certificate, No. 2609, at the Military School, Farnborough on 5 April 1916.

Previous to RAF service he was in a 2nd Lt in the 10th Hussars. He reached Major during WWI. He was entitled to 1914 war medal, 1914/15 Star and Victory medal.

In 1921 he was living at 2 White Hart Court, SW1.

There is a photo of him on ancestry but I'm not clever enough to copy it here !!!

Bravowhiskey - you beat me to it.

[A2QFI]

I have been in touch with my friend, the current owner of the medals. She tells me that she has the Defence and Victory medals, at least one of which has the name Tweedie engraved on the edge. These are not the lot (221?) in the catalogue.

It seems there are three sets around, the ones my friend has, the ones in the sale, and the missing AFC and OBE.

The auctioneers declined, fairly bluntly, to tell me who had put the goods up for auction. I think the excellent researcher, JamesDevice, has got the answer to how the goods turned up in a sale so long after the the death of Mrs Alec-Tweedie in 1940.

I am not sure that the deceased brother served in the military but if his age was right it is likely that he would have and he may have been killed in Service.

[Tankertrashnav]

The auctioneers actions are absolutely correct A2QFI, although they didn't have to be blunt. Certainly when I put lots in an auction I don't want my identity revealed. However, a letter handed in to the auctioneers in a stamped plain envelope, with a request that it be forwarded by them to the vendor might be a way round the problem.

By the way the correct terminology is British War Medal and Victory Medal, not Defence Medal, which is from WW2. If indeed this is an unnamed WW2 Defence Medal then it looks as if she has only one medal from Tweedy's entitlement (he was also entitled to the 1914-15 Star, see BW7A's copy of the medal index card).

[BravoWhisky7A]

There is a photo of Harley Tweedy on Ancestry, but it is not accessible and marked as a 'private member's photo'. Shall I contact them and direct them to this thread?

Happy to help, if I can.
BW7A

[A2QFI]

TTN I take your point completely. However this was a 600+ lot auction from one source (a luxury house clearance) rather than a general assorted auction from multiple sources. I think they have acted tactfully if bluntly!