Training?

[Scouser01]

I have heard about the serious light aircraft training accident at EASA at Ormand Beach a week ago - the engine failed and the student and instructor crashed soon after take off, from what i read it seems they were both badly injured. I was thinking of learning to fly actually at EASA as the price seems good but now wonder what happens if i was involved in an accident? Who pays for the medical costs for example?

Does the school ( this one or any other one ) cover a student, or would i have to take out my own insurance? What if the school does not have any insurance to cover students? As far as my knowledge goes, is it not called 'Public Liability'?

I have emailed the CAA to ask them if they insist that flight training schools have it, if they are approved by them? I have not heard back yet.

This is a serious question for you expert ppruners and i would welcome any opinions on how best i should cover myself whilst learning to fly - although i must admit, hearing about the accident has put me off a bit and i am doing some more research on just how often this sort of thing happens.

[HDhillon]

scouser01 i am also looking into that school as well at the moment, what course were you thinking of doing?

[zondaracer]

My best friend, who was an exchange student in the US, got punched in the eye by his roommate after a few beers one night, and he went to the emergency room (I call him a wuss for going to the ER over a blackeye). The doctor prescribed him some over the counter pain medication (advil) and told him to put some ice on it.

He didn´t have health insurance, the bill came out to $800. So, to second what SoCalApp said, you will need health insurance (in addition to renter´s insurance)

Anyhow, I have a good friend who went to Ormond Beach before they changed names to EASA. During his time there, there were two in-flight engine failures and one crash landing on a golf course. Most of the students were thinking of leaving and going elsewhere. This was not too long ago.

Another thing that I learned recently...
I was speaking with a JAA instructor at a well known school that does a lot of IR conversions from FAA IR holders. This school gets quite a few students who received their Instrument Ratings at the various JAA schools in Florida. This instructor (plus many Europeans that I have met) was under the impression that NDBs don´t exist in the US. This instructor never met anyone who came from a product of FAA training who could fly RMIs or ADFs (until I came along and showed that we do train RMIs and ADFs in the US, if you go to the right school). I was astonished. This instructor said that they lose a lot of time in the conversion courses just trying to teach basic ADF and RMI skills.

Has anyone here done their instrument rating in a JAA school in Florida and learned to fly an ADF or RMI?

[kaptn]

no JAA IR in the US...this is the regs...I do not see why it can't be done, I've heared this strory about the lack of NDBs in the US, but not sure how a pilot is train to use VORs but can't do it for an NDB....if it was around 500$, in this case it's ok, but JAA IR conversion comes to be more than 5000£ generally...that sucks:\:ugh:

[zondaracer]

Kaptn, as you said, a JAA IR cannot be completed in the US. However, there are plenty of NDBs in the US. I was trained on NDBs, and I even had an NDB hold and approach on my checkride, however, in the US, you will be examined on the equipment available in your aircraft. No ADF, then no NDBs. Even so, learning to use an ADF is a very useful skill, because it can be transferred to using an RMI (which will still be even after the demise of the NDB)

For reference, when I went to do my IR conversion from FAA to JAA, I had very low hours and I had not done much instrument flying, but my instructor thought that I was a high time, high experienced pilot and he was shocked when I said I had hardly flown instruments in a long time. I chalk it up to having been trained properly. The school that did my conversion had done many conversions from students who went to one of the Florida JAA schools, and they were less than impressed with the IR skills of those students. Most of these students were not capable of flying with the ADF or RMI (not because of lack of ability, but never been taught), and many were not capable of flying full approach procedures as written in the approach plates because they were accustomed to only flying with vectors to the localizer.

In the end, where you train DOES matter, and I´m not saying go out and spend all your money on the most expensive program, but you definitely want quality training from day one.

[Scouser01]

Hello.

Thanks for your reply and info. Yes, of course I would arrange to have personal insurance, including medical, should I enrol with EASA for their JAA PPL course and travel to the US.

What made me post my initial question was to find out for certain, if EASA (and all other US based JAA approved flight schools) had a mandatory, legal duty to be fully covered (insurance wise) to provide for all expenses incurred by a student having been injured - or worse - when an aircraft of the school crashed through no fault of the student.

Short of asking EASA outright - which would seem somewhat blatant, I am hoping that someone knows for certain whether that school has such comprehensive insurance and can put my mind at rest?

Should anyone have that information and can reassure me, then I would be very grateful.

[BigGrecian]

if EASA (and all other US based JAA approved flight schools) had a mandatory, legal duty to be fully covered (insurance wise) to provide for all expenses incurred by a student having been injured - or worse - when an aircraft of the school crashed through no fault of the student.


No don't think so.

Also EASA has been in trouble over insurance before with the county. They almost lost their business licence for not having the required insurance with the City of Ormond Beach according to the press.
Rumour still has it they don't have insurance - ask to see the certificate if your going there.

[Scouser01]

"Hello, again. I thank all the ppruners that have kindly found the time to give me the benefit of their knowledge and advice.
Having absorbed it all, I did contact EASA at Ormond Beach to ascertain the exact position I would be in, should I be unfortunate enough to be in an aircraft crash, whilst training as a student/customer, as suffered by the instructor and his student on July 10th.

The reply received in writing, confirms that the Company (EASA) only holds insurance for its aircraft and buildings, as per the requirement of the USA authorities, but does NOT have any insurance policy to cover any student who is injured in an aircraft whilst training.

EASA has stated that I (and all prospective students) should avail themselves of their own Insurance Policy to cover any medical/hospitalisation costs, irrespective of who is to blame, or is responsible.

It does seem to me, that NOT to have in place, an insurance policy to cover a client/student who could be seriously injured whilst undergoing training in a Company light aircraft, is quite amazing.

Perhaps, this information should be a warning and a strong trigger for aspiring students wishing to sign-up with EASA, to think very, very carefully before signing-up.

I for one, am now much wiser and will ensure that I ask the right questions of any flight training establishment, wanting my custom."