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Gazeem2
19th Feb 2002, 01:09
I was asked a question today whether it is SOPs on smaller airliners for both pilots to push the throttle at take off, (like you see in the movies).

I was wondering on which types was this standard practice, Dash 8s?

Dimitri
19th Feb 2002, 01:19
I got the impression that only one pilot pushed the throttles, the other pilot merely held his hand there as a backup during takeoff in case of emergancy or something.

Capt Pit Bull
19th Feb 2002, 02:52
Depending on company procedures:

Could be Pilot Flying setting approx power, and being ready to abort takeoff by closing power levers. Meanwhile, Pilot Not Flying fine tunes engines to take off power setting and checks instruments, allowing Pilot Flying to look outside to keep aircraft straight etc.

CPB

P.S. More likely on smaller aircraft as thrust management likely to be less advanced.

[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: Capt Pit Bull ]</p>

Flying_Tuur
19th Feb 2002, 03:05
I used to fly the 737-200 as copilot some time ago.. .We had the procedure that tha Captain always would handle thrust on T/O, because he is also the one who has to be ready for the abort. On the old 737-200, when Capt flying T/O, he set the thrust, and the F/O did the fine-tuning. You would have 2 hands on the throttle in the beginning of the roll....

Firestorm
20th Feb 2002, 17:47
FT,

Used to do the same on a Twin Otter. Makes life quite a bit easier at take off, and prevents over torquing the engines as well.

JJflyer
21st Feb 2002, 11:52
B727 with my company for take off:

PF advances thrust levers after EPR check and calls for "set T/O thrust" PNF sets it and F/E monitors.. .PF aborts, be it Capt or F/O. Remember the saying about too many cooks... Well works here too. There has apparently been situations where one has tried to abort and the other pilot rotate.

Capt Pit Bull
21st Feb 2002, 13:09
In our case the PNF would remove hands once power tweaked.

Rationale for aborting pilot needing to be skipper, on the ATR, due only having a tiller on that side.

Seems to have held over on introduction of the RJ. Talk of change.

CPB

Flight Detent
23rd Feb 2002, 11:01
Hi all,. .On the real 747s,. .The Captain advances the throttles, after stabilization, and calls for the FE to set t/off thrust, which he must do by 80 knots, and the Captain removes his hand at V1, so, two hands to 80 knots, then only one until V1.. .Always the Captain, since he will be the one to decide to abort the t/o.. .simple!. .Cheers.

Centaurus
23rd Feb 2002, 16:08
While dead heading in commuter aircraft I have often noticed that both pilots had their hands on the throttles - and I have seen it in the B737 as well. I think it is a gimmick which is based upon the false notion that the the throttles may slip back and therefore the PNF keeps his hand behind the throttles to prevent this. I personally find it quite distracting to have the PNF fiddling with minute changes of power while my hand is firmly in control of the throttles.

The DC-3 had a throttle friction nut problem in this regard, because unless the PNF tightened the friction nut controlling both throttles - after the PF had set take-off power, then unless the PF had a firm grip on the throttles, they would most definately slip back to idle. For this reason the PF would keep his hand behind the throttles as a back up to the friction nut.

Many years ago, an airman stole a Dakota at a RAAF base in Australia. He had been drinking. The aircraft actually got airborne, but when the airman removed his right hand from the throttles in order to select the undercarriage levers up, the throttles slipped back quickly. Witnesses heard several applications of power and it was presumed that he was re-applying throttle in between attempts to raise the gear. Each time the throttles slipped back quickly and finally the aircraft crashed. It didn't help that it was night and that the artificial horizon was caged..

But in modern aircraft there is no need for a second hand behind the throttles for the duration of the take-off because at least in the 737 there is an internal friction device. If the PNF does keep his hand behind the throttles during the take-off run to V1, there is a grave danger that his fingers may be broken if the PF snaps back the throttles in a sudden decision to abort. It is also annoying to have the PNF hands behind the throttles when simply there is no technical reason for it.

In any case most procedures call for the PNF to adjust the take-off power fine-tuning only up to a maximum of 60 knots, then remove his hand completely. I have witnessed the severe pain that occurred when the PF aborted the take-off in the simulator and lacerated the PNF fingers because he could not get his hand out of the way in time.

[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus ]</p>