Kingdom Air-They must be kidding?

[Patty747400]

Some days ago I received a mail from Rishworth about VVIP operations in Saudi for Kingdom Air. They are looking for a very experienced 744 Captain with management and administrative skills.
In their own words:

"This is an excellent lifestyle position with fantastic benefits"

So I downloaded the information thinking that they must be paying well to get someone with those skills to live in that place...

Monthly salary: 6500 USD

At first I read it as 65000. Probably because that would be the minimum for me to go there but no, it's 6500. (There's also some Per Diem and a quarterly bonus based "on performance" but that's usually arbitrary)

Who, with that experience and taking up that job description, would work for that kind of money in Saudi? Are the Saudi Arabian Air pilots paid as badly?

I politely turned the offer down:mad:

[Payscale]

Must be a mistake...

[desertopsguy]

If it's not a mistake then they will be waiting for a verrrrry long time for someone to come along and work for that; there.

Minimum to work in KSA is 10k, not a dime less!

[DownIn3Green]

Kingdom Aviation is a very coveted position...

Strange they're recruiing thru an agency, however, my initial feeling is you won't qualify, as you are all ready spreading gossip re: your potential employment...

The job should be for the compensation you stated, however, it is most probably for 2 mos. on and 1 mon. off...

Like I've said, check your facts and actual terms...all may not be as it seems...

BTW, the Kingdom A/C rarely remain in the Kingdom...One year I actually spent 32 Days total there only...

It was a great gig, and I'd go back in a heartbeat...

Once again, where's Mutt when one needs him???

[HPIC]

Is Kingdom Air the name for Prince ABT's -400 kept at OERK?

In any case, 6500USD a month is less than guys are making flying King Airs in KSA with a decent rotation....for a "VVIP" 747 operation, that's absolutely ridiculous, regardless of how much time is spent out of the Kingdom. That is a $15k+ position at least. They'll get what they pay for.

I think there is some confusion about the actual T&C's though...or the agency is taking 2/3 of the pay as a finders fee.

Regarding DownIn3Green's comment about the aircraft rarely spending time in KSA...if this is, indeed, ABT's -400, then I know that it spends a lot of time in KLAX. I don't know exactly how much, but when I was flying in there weekly I saw the aircraft there probably half of the times I flew in.

[mutt]

That particular aircraft is spending a lot of time in OERK these days, or at least it was during 2010...... I cannot believe that the offer of $6500 is correct, multiply this by 4 and you might be in the ballpark for that operation considering that it involves management of the aircraft and is not a rotation.

I'm extremely disappointed that a company like Rishworth would actually offer this job @ $6500..... If the agencies don't educate their clients about fair value contracts, what hope does this industry have?

Mutt

[Patty747400]

Believe it or not...

Total Payment:
Note: All currencies are in US dollars unless otherwise specified
Monthly salary: $6,500
Per Diem (Europe): $350
Per Diem (Non-Europe): $300
Quarterly Performance Related bonus of up to $19,500
Schooling assistance of up to $6,667 per family is also provided

Page 1 of 3
Taxation:
Monthly salary is tax free.
Base Residence:
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Contract Term:
Permanent
Minimum Qualifications
1000 PIC hours on type Need to have flown the B747-400 as PIC within the last 6 months Aged 55 years or younger at date of joining Flight Operations Management Experience required Aviation Administration Required
Start Date:
To Be Confirmed
Annual Leave:
One month
Duty Ground Transportation: Company vehicle is provided in Riyadh and ground transport will be provided out of base.
Travel
Value of Economy full fare tickets is provided annually in cash for employee and dependants for annual leave, based on place of recruitment (This normally buys 2 tickets at airline prices).
Accommodation:
Accommodation is in a residential compound owned by HRH and considered one of the best in Riyadh (www.kingdom-city.com); facilities include restaurant, gymnasium, swimming pool, tennis courts, squash courts, on-site shop and various establishments such as hairdresser and beauty salon. A 3 bedroom house with private garden is provided; power and water are included.

Position Duties

744 Captain Duties to cover the primary crew members leave and act a third pilot on long-haul operations Aviation Administration Functions including responsibility for Management of Flight and Cabin Crew
Routes Flown:
Worldwide – this is VVIP operation
Insurance:
Medgulf Insurance provided free of charge to employee and family members

[Panama Jack]

I have noticed a few times that some corporate operators in the Magic Kingdom get the recruitment for airplane drivers confused with that of bus or car drivers. I recall seeing a comical ad, a few years ago, for an experienced and current Falcon 900 Captain, offering a salary of $4000 and stating "Indian or Filipino preferred." The owner of this Falcon just happens to be one of the most affluent business people in Saudi.

Anyhow, nothing to keep them from trying.

[Eric Carr]

Quarterly Performance Related bonus of up to $19,500

So with full bonus you´d end up with $13K per month and and if the accommodation is nice my bet is that there are a few fellows who´ll take the bait.
Then if you spend 15 days a month at LAX you can end up with 17500 bucks in spending money after your car AND house are paid. I´m not trying to be the devils advocate here but is it really that crappy pay for a dinosaur driver?:E

[maxphlyer]

The overall salary isn't bad at all, as long as you are working.

If you are on leave, sick or the owner does not want you to fly for whatever reason, it is another story.

Welcome to the Middle East!

[waffler]

Guys, if you keep calling yourselves " drivers" you will be treated as drivers.
Try the old fashioned word " pilot ".

[Patty747400]

Eric

"If" you get the full bonus.
"If" you get 15 days a month at LAX.

So you would move yourself and your family to Saudi with a promise of 6500 and a lot of "if"?

Well, good luck. I am lucky I don't need to sell myself that cheap yet...

[Fawn Liebowitz]

Patty747400

You are wise to be weary of the T&C's for this Job. If you are a current qualified 400 captain, I can assure you this is the worst job in the industry. They are the worst used car salesman in the universe. They can only get pilots to come to Riyadh by lying to them. They will sell it as a cushy 200 hour a year, sitting around the pool with umbrella drinks, Rolex giveaway, flying job. I assure you, you will spend 6-14 hours a day every day, chasing your're tail. That's when your're not flying!
BTW- they flew over 500 hours last year.

Total Payment:
Note: All currencies are in US dollars unless otherwise specified
Monthly salary: $6,500
Per Diem (Europe): $350
Per Diem (Non-Europe): $300 Per diem must cover your lodging as well. If you go to Hong Kong or Tokyo, how far do you think 300USD will go?!
Quarterly Performance Related bonus of up to $19,500 This is not a given!!
Schooling assistance of up to $6,667 per family is also provided This barely privides for half a child at any decent school. expect alot of out of pocket expense on this.

Page 1 of 3
Taxation:
Monthly salary is tax free.
Base Residence:
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia You will spend about half of the time here.
Contract Term:
Permanent
Minimum Qualifications
1000 PIC hours on type Need to have flown the B747-400 as PIC within the last 6 months Aged 55 years or younger at date of joining Flight Operations Management Experience required Aviation Administration Required
Start Date:
To Be Confirmed
Annual Leave:
One month That's right 330 on/ 30 off free of duty. Expect to work 6-14hrs 7 days a week for 330 days(or more) in a row
Duty Ground Transportation: Company vehicle is provided in Riyadh and ground transport will be provided out of base. You do not get a rental car on layover! this just means you will be transported to the crappy hotel.
Travel
Value of Economy full fare tickets is provided annually in cash for employee and dependants for annual leave, based on place of recruitment (This normally buys 2 tickets at airline prices). This amount covers far less, so again expect more out of pocket expenses
Accommodation:
Accommodation is in a residential compound owned by HRH and considered one of the best in Riyadh (www.kingdom-city.com); (http://www.kingdom-city.com);/) facilities include restaurant, gymnasium, swimming pool, tennis courts, squash courts, on-site shop and various establishments such as hairdresser and beauty salon. A 3 bedroom house with private garden is provided; power and water are included. The only true statement. It is the only worthwhile thing in Riyadh.

Position Duties

744 Captain Duties to cover the primary crew members leave and act a third pilot on long-haul operations Aviation Administration Functions including responsibility for Management of Flight and Cabin Crew
Routes Flown:
Worldwide – this is VVIP operation
Insurance:
Medgulf Insurance provided free of charge to employee and family members Not so much for family members. They are on a very substandard plan.

Ihope this clears up any misconceptions,

Fawn Liebowitz

[Patty747400]

Thanks Fawn

Just what I thought. And I also must say that working for the government that's responsible for funding most terrorist acts the last decade is not very appealing.:yuk:

[GoreTex]

they are kidding, 15k is the min for a 747 skipper. dont take anything less than that

[Not Gulfair CEO]

Thanks Fawn

Just what I thought. And I also must say that working for the government that's responsible for funding most terrorist acts the last decade is not very appealing.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif


All your ethic codes would have gone out of window had it been 65000 dollars, so dont start a wrong topic on a wrong forum. I can accuse your elected government for killing million civilians in iraq and afghanistan in the name of terrorism but as I said, wrong topic on a wrong forum.

[Fawn Liebowitz]

Just for clarity. This is a private operator.

Fawn

[CaptainProp]

We have Lear / CL300 Co-pilots making more than that and they can live wherever they want in Europe. :confused:

What really gets me is that (as someone stated before) they will get crew jumping on this "deal"... :sad:

This industry never stops surprising me.....

[Patty747400]

CEO

You got me. I'm embarrassed. For 65000 USD per month I'll work for the devil himself. ;) Do you have the number to his FlightOps?

And, I agree with your description of "your elected government" but it's not mine... Sorry for the slip of the tongue, it's not the right forum.

[NZ X man]

'Kingdom Aviation is a very coveted position...

Strange they're recruiing thru an agency, however, my initial feeling is you won't qualify, as you are all ready spreading gossip re: your potential employment...

The job should be for the compensation you stated, however, it is most probably for 2 mos. on and 1 mon. off...

Like I've said, check your facts and actual terms...all may not be as it seems...

BTW, the Kingdom A/C rarely remain in the Kingdom...One year I actually spent 32 Days total there only."

I do not know who the guy is who wrote this dribble, but I watched that 747 sit on the ramp for 3 weeks, make one trip to Jordan with two guys, then sit another 3 weeks. ANd no, it is not a commute schedule, and the owner is the Howard Hughes of the ME, so quirkiness is an everyday thing. I have known two pilots who have worked for the Prince back in the old days, and you will earn your money, mate. On the bright side, the back end is filled with some of the best looking F/O's in the entire ME.

My 2 cents

[filejw]

I had the opportunity to talk to one of their management pilots a few years back. Pretty together operation, I'm sure that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to pay.It is suppose to be a pretty good gig.:D

[pinkus]

I saw the plane sat in Nice a fair bit this summer and in Paris just a couple of days ago. Is it not Prince Walids plane? He pays the girls very well. ( Not sure what they have to do for that though ;) Strange he is cheap with the flight deck.

[NZ X man]

Yes it is Prince Walids aircraft.

[MungoP]

Having flown contracts in almost every African country plus most of the middle east countries, my own impression of 'The kingdom' was that I hope never to return... The most boring country on earth.. Not even 'alcohol free' beer available... be prepared to be forced out of the supermarket for an hour several times a day while the employees go off to pray... all the ladies dressed like ninjas.. religious 'police' wandering around making sure no one is enjoying life.. I spent a year in Kinshasa, often considered the worst city on the planet next to Mogadishu... would rather be in Kinshasa than Riyadh any day. Oh.. and if you do go.. stay off the roads if it rains.. They're the most uselessly dangerous and incompetant drivers anywhere outside of the Congo.. the difference being that in the Congo the cars and the roads are in such bad shape no one can move fast enough to hurt themselves, In Riyadh they all have top end SUVs and so much money thay don't care if they hit someone.. which they do, often.