Lyneham saved

[Carvair66]

according to ITV Westcountry

[A and C]

Please tell us more

[TheWizard]

Announced that it will stay as a support base instead of closing in total.

[Mandator]

For the RAF or the Army?

[pr00ne]

TheWizard,


Not quite.

Lyneham is to be the new home of the Defence Technical Training Centre that was going to be housed at St. Athan.
This will see an initial 1500 staff stationed there from 2014 as 1 SoTT moves in from Cosford, the SAE from Arborfield Garrison and the Navy from HMS Sultan.

[Solent Trout]

BBC News - RAF Lyneham to be defence training centre (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-14191862)

[Always a Sapper]

Good, some sense at last if it's true.

[12 twists per inch]

I disagree, no sense at all.

Cosford is centrally located with good road and rail links and can still be developed. What a waste of money relocating.

Send the Hercs back there, the drone of the flying skip is horrendous :}

[pr00ne]

12 twists per inch,

It may be central but it's tiny compared to Lyneham and in no way could accommodate the Army from Aborfield and the Navy from Sultan on top of what is there already.

It was all going to move to St. Athan anyway so now it is just moving to Lyneham instead. Hardly a waste of money as the closure of Gosport and Arborfield will save a considerable amount.

Cosford is destines to be an Army base with units returning from Germany so it will be developed, after a fashion.

I wonder if the airfield will remain in use for the UAS/AEF?

[Molesworth Hold]

Will Lyneham remain as an airfield, even in a limited capacity? An RLG for Brize?

[nice castle]

I know, how about we put some helicopters there...

[Nomorefreetime]

It's a shame the lodger units had to move, TMW, 1AMW could have saved a few quid leaving them put.

[WE992]

Neither lodger unit has moved. AMW are due to move Apr 12 and TMW Nov 12.

[Nomorefreetime]

I bet they still move, both units do not need to be located on an airfield to operate.

[Lima Juliet]

Stay open as an airfield? Why not? RAF Halton stayed open as an airfield and even had some big aircraft land there in its time for the Junior Techs - even on a grass strip! The technical students got to crawl all over them and got some brilliant training - checkout these Vulcans and Canberra at Halton...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/P3K/Odds%20and%20Sods/Vulcan1.jpg

[Rigga]

Talking of old relics...What'll happen to the Museum?

[iRaven]

I also hear that the flying club might be able to stay - shame they left just a few hours ago! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Dengue_Dude]

For the RAF or the Army?

What army?

[iRaven]

"Dad's Army" if you read the Future Reserves 2020 Paper.

About 40,000 TA with 80,000 regulars as I read it...

[Wander00]

Where does that leave St Athan - base for the Welsh Air Force?

I'll get my coat

[chevvron]

I originally used to advocate moving the Chinooks from Odiham to Honington and close Odiham, but why not move them to Lyneham instead, and keep it as an RLG for Brize still closing Odiham?

[minigundiplomat]

I don't quite understand the fascination with closing Odiham. I never see posts from Odiham based personnel venturing an opinion that Brize should be closed, or that 1AMW should relocate, but the rest off the RAF seem most keen to shunt the Chinooks off somewhere different each week.

Yeovilton
Leeming
Colerne
Lyneham
Benson
Dishforth

All the above have been the subject of studies, and discounted for some reason or another as potential bases for the Chinook Force. In the meantime, no investment has been made in station infrastructure.

So, I suggest that everyone just worries about where they are going to be in the near-medium term and leaves Odiham alone.:ugh:

[AR1]

Great for nthe M4 corridor, (via a west country MP) but crap for South wales, Linclonshire, Midlands , south coast - seriously, when will we realise that the Uk is not based along the M4?

[Ken Scott]

But surely St Athan was good only for South Wales? (and they all vote Labour there.....)

[WE992]

And its not far from the M4 either

[neilmac]

Really good news for the civvy staff who work at Lyneham , done a brill job in the past and now hopefully will continue

[Truck2005]

Just one thing, it has not been built yet, watch this space. If there is one thing UK politicians are good at is U -turns! Lyneham is an airfield, nothing else. The cost to convert that will be hidden is some budget that none of us will see. Cosford and St. Athan are both training establishments and have been for decades. Here we go again, 100s of millions of our money down the drain.

[Mighty Quercus]

Totally agree, the majority of barrack blocks are sub standard and no doubt will be replaced by SLAM ( long overdue). The hangars are exactly that, not workshops or classrooms. The whole Station heating system is on the verge of collapse and leaks like a sieve, looks more like downtown Manhattan in winter than an RAF Camp.

As always the devil will be in the detail, but will cost millions to transform the base into a training school. Acres of concrete for parade squares though!!!!

[Willard Whyte]

when will we realise that the Uk is not based along the M4?

Well, most of the best bits are South of it.

ALL of the best bits are South of the River Thames.

[flipflopman RB199]

The hangars are exactly that, not workshops or classrooms. The whole Station heating system is on the verge of collapse and leaks like a sieve, looks more like downtown Manhattan in winter than an RAF Camp

But perhaps Pr00ne can yet again attempt to correct us all as apparently...

It may be central but it's tiny compared to Lyneham and in no way could accommodate the Army from Aborfield and the Navy from Sultan on top of what is there already.

It was all going to move to St. Athan anyway so now it is just moving to Lyneham instead. Hardly a waste of money as the closure of Gosport and Arborfield will save a considerable amount.


Pr00ne, perhaps you can enlighten us all as to the space that Lyneham holds for all of the current incumbents of Cosford, by which I mean:

238 Sqn - Line Training Flight
AVTF - Avionics and Electrical training flight
MechTF - Propulsion and Airframe training Flight
ArmTF - Armament training flight
No1 RS - No 1 Radio School

...the Safety Equipment training flight etc.. I could go on..

This does not include in any way the space required by Arborfield or Sultan. One of the main reasons that the St Athan bid did not work out was due to the incredibly high and un-catered for cost of building accomodation and work space for the aforementioned training units. Perhaps you can then explain why Lyneham is any different in that respect. If more buildings are required, perhaps you could explain how they would be cheaper or easier to build at Lyneham, rather than on the large and empty expanse of real estate that is currently available on the empty airfield side of RAF Cosford.

Being previously based at the former and currently at the latter, I would be particularly interested in hearing any justification for your statements.


Flipflopman

[Squirrel 41]

Interesting, I'd missed that the PFI for Def Trg College St Athan had finally been put out of its' misery. But as at least a few people were pointing out all the way through this fiasco, if St Athan doesn't work or can't be funded, then you're going to have a problem about the existing facilities having been starved of investment for the last 5 years or more.

And lo, it doesn't work. So when will all of these schools transfer to Lyneham, and how much longer will we be training the next generation (I know, all three of them) in substandard schools? Plan B? Anyone?

S41

[Always a Sapper]

Mighty Q

Totally agree, the majority of barrack blocks are sub standard and no doubt will be replaced by SLAM ( long overdue). The hangars are exactly that, not workshops or classrooms. The whole Station heating system is on the verge of collapse and leaks like a sieve, looks more like downtown Manhattan in winter than an RAF Camp.

Barrack Blocks, agree. They could be better (much) and in the main need knocking down, in some cases the occupants have tried to help with that...

Hangers, big open spaces with lots of potential. Don't forget, not all tech training is done in a standard class room. There's not much hope of fitting a MBT or it's like in your standard class room is there? (REME are 'due' to be one of the first through the door btw).

So the whole Station Heating System is on the verge of collapse is it? Don't think so matey, theres worse out there believe me. The HTHW system around the tech site has had a lot of pipe work replaced over the last few years and following this years Boiler House Maint will be in good order, the same for the LTHW around the domestic site.

Histroically, any system of that age will have had it's issues, all of which are/have been dealt with when identified and funded.

All told the site is in pretty good order and conditionally (apart from some SLA) always was much better than Brize was when the decision was made to move the Hercs over.

[pr00ne]

flipflopman RB199,

Oi! Don't get all arsey with me, I'm not the one who took the decision, your Lords and Masters did.

However, as you pose the question..

At one point Lyneham was home to in excess of 60 Hercules, it had the largest Engineering Wing in the Air Force and all of the technical back up for such a fleet in terms of engineering, stores, workshops etc. It is absolutely stuffed full of buildings ranging in age and origin from the late 30's to the 90's.

I think there will be a substantial rebuild to accommodate all of the units from Cosford, Bordon, Arborfield and Gosport but there is a lot of existing infrastructure there to begin with.

I suppose a good way of illustrating the difference in size between Lyneham and Cosford is to pose the question' " At the peak of the resident Hercules fleet, 4 squadrons, a large OCU, a HUGE Eng Wing, simulators, an Air Despatch Squadron, UKMAMS, an Air Terminal etc etc etc, could you have moved all that from Lyneham into Cosford?"

[Willard Whyte]

With all the facilities there it would be a great place to base some aircraft.

[Whenurhappy]

And don't forget that the net realisable value of Lyneham is b&gger all! The land was requisitioned under Defence (Emergency Power) Regulations and because of this, the original owners/descendents have to be offered the site back at the unimproved value. [The 1939 purchase price was c ₤12,000]

Additionally, there are areas of contamination that the MOD would have to either pay to remediate or transfer the risk to the new owners, in return for a substantial reduction in the disposal price (which would be low, anyway). In this case, cheaper to retain.

Barracks would definitely need to be improved to SLAM standard; amongst other reasons this is because the Adult Learning Inspectorate would hit the roof if trainees (Phase 2/3) were put in the remaining blocks. The last major upgrade took place in 1995, when 2 new en-suite blocks were completed. Most other accommodation blocks would probably be demolished.

In terms of technical accommodation, I suspect hangars would remain – the UKMAMS hangar had a deluge fire-restraint system and all have 3-phase power (some with other voltages) fed to them.

[djmsooty]

It's great to see all the good feelings towards Lyneham, been there nearly 4 years and it's a greart place to work.

To celebrate Lyneham and help raise some money for the RAFBF a great Commemorative Watch has been designed with the Lyneham Crest and a C130 beautifully crafted onto the face; please visit www.PerArdua.org.uk (http://www.PerArdua.org.uk) for further details and place your orders for this great watch. This watch has been organised by Wg Cdr Jon Hough and will be supplied by the great UK watch maker Christopher Ward.

If you would like any more information please see www.PerArdua.org.uk (http://www.PerArdua.org.uk) or send us an email at [email protected]

Please spread the word as buying this watch will help to rasie money for the RAFBF, Thank You. Flt Lt Darren Miller (Lyneham ATC)

[Halton Brat]

The public treasure wasted at St Athan under the previous government is on a truly Biblical scale, and is nothing less than a scandal.

The rapid rise (& equally rapid demise) of DARA, the zillions spent on the now-empty 'Project Red Dragon' hangar, the Welsh Development Agency funding to lure ATC Lasham to St Athan in order to use the VC10 'Twin Peaks' hangar for what was only always going to be a temporary move while their own hangar was refurbished, the millions spent on preparatory work for the now-defunct Defence Training Academy..........

On a brighter note, my spies tell me that Brit Airways are planning to use the Red Dragon hangar for B737/baby Airbus maintenance, which they plan to relocate from Glasgow.

HB

[1.3VStall]

HB,

I echo your sentiments on the zillions wasted at ST Athan over the past 20 years. Something to do with providing local employment for a large population of labour voters in South Wales I believe!

Apart from UWAS, what RAF presence remains at St Athan now?

[Pheasant]

Apart from being told to why would the Navy want to leave Sultan?

It is:

In fairly good order
Near the sea and ships (ethos)
Near Collingwood where the rest of the RN trains
Hosts the AIB and CAMB
Has loads of space
Linked to Fareham College etc
Runs apprenticeship schemes
Has a great open day

Why did they want to go to St Athan:

They didn't.

Why would they want to go to Lyneham:

They don't.

[andyy]

Perhaps Valley should be closed & move their units to St Athan. At least they'd be near the ranges:rolleyes:

[Wrathmonk]

With all the facilities there it would be a great place to base some aircraft.

Like Voyager? :E

[Willard Whyte]

Might have to extend R24 on some stilts.

[woptb]

1.3VStall; Giving people jobs in a depressed area of the country ,awful !
As for the political demographic,the Vale of Glamorgan Is a Tory held constituency,one of the very few in Wales,I should write another letter to the Daily Fail & complain fifthwith !

[Bob Viking]

"Perhaps Valley should be closed & move their units to St Athan. At least they'd be near the ranges".
But that would make it a bl00dy long drive to the Octagon on a Friday night. How would we survive?!
BV:E

[NutLoose]

Surely the smart thing to do would be to hold off moving anything until the financial situation improves...... Might be a decent Station but one would imagine there will be quite a lot of development to upgrade it to a training facility, in my time they moved out of Saints to Halton and then to Cosford, not exactly financially astute, considering the time frames involved.

One would imagine the Naval part will involve hacking the bottom off all the doors and nailing a plank across the bottom as per Lossie used to be, as for the army....

Barracks would definitely need to be improved to SLAM standard forgive me for being dumb, but what is SLAM? one up or down from SLUM?

[Halton Brat]

Bob Viking

You chaps at Valley are clearly spoiled these days; when I first was posted there ('73), there was:

No dual-carriageway A55, on or off the island (only tiny stretches).
No Sunday drinking off-camp (except for 'clubs').
No entertainment (other than that involving sheep...).
No English spoken in pubs etc (you learned to order your beer in Welsh).
No decent women (but lots of indecent ones.....).
No sense of humour amongst the local Constabulary.
No place-name road sign as you entered Llanfair PG (we kept stealing them, which accounts for the attitude of the Bobbies).
No need to clean the front window of the Dublin Packet pub in Holyhead, as somebody went through it most Saturday nights.

Despite all this, I had a good time on Anglesey, which boasts 100miles of coastline, most of it by the sea.........

HB