Failed PPL Checkride

[Dade123]

So I failed my PPL checkride the other day. The sad part is I couldn't even pass the oral. The examiner informed me that the exam was over once I missed 3 questions in a row on the sectional chart. I told him in a real scenario I could always use the legend on the side if I ever forgot what a symbol meant. I also told him I had dedicated a major portion of studying towards creating flight plans, part 91 guidelines and aircraft knowledge. I asked him if we could continue and finish the flying part. He said that the FAA changed their policy and students who can't pass the oral part are unable to continue to the practical flight.

I thought I was well prepared and my instructor signed me off. Unfortunately, the examiner thought my knowledge of the sectional charts was inadequate and I quote this from the examiner "You will kill yourself if I give you a license today". However he did say I wasn't to blame. He said he will be contacting my instructor later this week to have a talk with him. He also informed me that he would have liked to be my instructor. My actual instructor was shocked when I walked outside to tell him I had failed, he thought I was joking with him. After the examiner left, my instructor sat down with me and said that I was his best student in terms of knowledge and only one other student rivaled me in flying skill. (He wants me to fly with the other student once I receive my license so we can exchange notes/techniques)

So basically $500 went down the drain and I am seriously bummed out. I told my instructor I won't be able to afford another checkride until August. This means I now have to spend more money renting the plane again to brush up on my stalls, landings, etc. so I don't fail the practical part this time around. My question is am I to blame? Or did my instructor not give me the proper preparation for the check ride? We did 3 hours of ground the day before the exam. I went home and stuck my head in part 91 for the rest of the night.


PS. The examiner said that if I didn't screw up on the sectional, we would have walked right outside and began the preflight. :ugh:

[Contacttower]

PS. The examiner said that if I didn't screw up on the sectional, we would have walked right outside and began the preflight.

That is unfortunately the flip side of the FAA system; it really is up to the examiner how to conduct the oral and you are very much at his mercy. Unlike in JAA land where they let any old idiot have a PPL provided the pass a few stupid exams...;)

If you don't mind me asking what were the things you didn't know?..I mean there is a big difference between not knowing for example what symbol means quarry or outdoor theater and how to tell the AMSL height of an obstacle.

[Pilot DAR]

Dade,

You'll find a lot of wisdom among the participants of this group. Happily that wisdom, has most commonly come from experience, lots good, some bad. As I have no information on your situation, other than that which you have presented, I can fairly assert that I have either a half, or third of the story, depending upon who we are including here.

To your support, I would have poor thoughts about anyone in a position of authority suggesting you might "kill yourself", particularly if the reference is in relation to chart reading. There's a lot of information printed on charts which I have to struggle with, and yes, I have been somewhat lost (okay, actually did land at the wrong airport once). Not for lack of understanding, just not paying proper attention to detail. I don't think that killing myself was really a risk in those situations, though I did elevate risk.

I am not an examiner, or instructor, so obviously each would know their job much better than I. I have, however many times been in a situation where it was my resonsibility to declare a pilot capable of flying a particular type (or not). Sometimes I would not be willing to declare that pilot safe. Pilots have left in aircraft, after I asserted that they needed more training to be safe - in my opinion. Apparently they did not agree with my opinion.

You're entitled to your opinon, but so is the person who assesed your skills. That person has demonstrated their skill, to get to where they are. You may find that there are future opportunities for you to challenge "the system", but those opportunities are not at this point in your career. I am not aware that anyone is blaming anyone else, so I would not worry too much about being on the wrong end of that, unless you're stirring the pot.

Blaming your instructor will get you nowhere. Presenting to this group, your resistance or bummedness about having to do more training, won't win you points. You will never know so much that you don't need training or at least practice. I've been flying for 34 years, yet still I did a landing poor enough today, that I really owed it to the plane to demonstrate I could do better. So we both went around for another.

$500 is a small cost to "write off" at an early stage in your flying career. If you spent it, while having a lower cost alternative, that's up to you. Having only what you have written to consider, I would wonder if the examiner did not see something else in you, which made him/her suggest that it was not you time yet.

I once thought I knew lots about aviation, the more I work in aviation, and fly, the less I think I know, and the more I want to learn. I have failed an exam, and I have been complemented for my flying. I suggest you go with the flow on this one, and humble up. After a few thousand hours of flying, you'll realize how much there was to not know in the early days. Please be patient with those of us who are there to assess, we're just trying to keep everything safe!

[Genghis the Engineer]

It does occur to me Dade that what's missing in your post is the "oh dear, I clearly am not there yet, how do I get myself to the right standard so that I'm safe enough". I can't help suspect that the lack of that attitude may be what your examiner really failed you on, although doubtless it was also to do with the detailed points that he presumably did debrief you about.

Every exam I've ever had in the air has (and many on the ground) ended with a lengthy debrief; I can't imagine that your FAA PPL examiner was any different in that? If you don't recall the detail of that, and didn't make notes, that alone should be telling you and your instructor something important.


Anyhow, many pilots have failed something along the way - but the excellent ones are those who took the learning points from it, and left the annoyance behind.

G

[AdamFrisch]

It happens and nothing to be ashamed of. Thing is, an examiner will prod on when he spots a weakness. In your case it seems like this was airspace and charts.

On my latest checkride I very sure of myself went into a long spiel where I tried to convince my examiner that the CG of all aircraft is behind the center of lift! He should have failed me right there for such a fundamental mistake, but since it wasn't for the initial PPL he probably let me pass with the embarrassment of my error. In the air I proceeded to almost land with the gear up, couldn't answer how to exit a standard pattern, approached the wrong field, kept calling "radio" rather than "traffic" on the unicom etc, etc. It was a mess. Don't know how I passed.

It stings, but you'll get over it and become a better pilot for it. Get right back into it - it will help take the stigma out of it. Don't wait and let it stew. And when prodded, you'll find that you're in good company - many pilots have failed rides.

[hihover]

Read your whiny post again, stop looking for someone to share the blame with, stop reminding yourself of how good you are and how unfair the examiner was.

If you feel the test was conducted unfairly then contact the FAA.

Otherwise, I would suggest you learn from it, use the experience to help prepare you for the next test. And I suggest you don't offer the examiner excuses for your inadequacies, he is well aware that there is a legend you could use in a "real scenario".

Establishing a support group will only make you feel better about yourself and will not improve your performance as a pilot.

[captainsuperstorm]

please report the name of this examiner.... ba...d!!!

and next student, don't book with this schmuck and save 400$.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Confidence is gained by knowledge.

Knowledge is gained by hard study.

[Whopity]

Knowledge is gained by hard study. No, knowledge is gained by relevant experience, study alone will not give you the required knowledge. There are far to many "know alls" who can do bugger all!

[bingofuel]

Knowledge is inversely proportional to common sense.

[Ex Oggie]

Confidence is gained by knowledge

And knowledge in itself is fairly useless without the understanding behind it.

[cavortingcheetah]

(We did 3 hours of ground the day before the exam. I went home and stuck my head in part 91 for the rest of the night.)

If that really is the case then that might be as much of an answer as your self esteem might require. All night cramming before an exam is not a good idea for most people. Indeed, were that what you did, it might have been just as well that you didn't fly. Exhaustion clouds the judgement.
Chalk it up to experience, better luck next time. Sleep tight before a fight.

[FlyingStone]

Confidence is gained by knowledge.

Knowledge is gained by hard study.

Confidence is gained by knowledge and experience.
Knowledge is gained by study and experience.

Knowledge is inversely proportional to common sense.

Depends on which approach to obtaining knowledge you pick. If you study (not learn, study) the subject and then add practical experience, virtually everything you studied should appear logical soon or later.

[limitedslip]

I told him in a real scenario I could always use the legend on the side if I ever forgot what a symbol meant.

This is probably why he failed you; he must have assumed that you didn't take the material seriously. Judging by what your instructor said it was unfounded, but you have to be very careful making comments like the above during an oral exam. Examiners are looking for any evidence that you have an unsafe or cavalier attitude.

[enq]

This is probably why he failed you; he must have assumed that you didn't take the material seriously. Judging by what your instructor said it was unfounded, but you have to be very careful making comments like the above during an oral exam. Examiners are looking for any evidence that you have an unsafe or cavalier attitude.

I can't imagine an examiner would deem it unsafe to have a Plan B (the legend) in case the OP ever forgot what a symbol meant however giving that option as Plan A would probably swing it :suspect: .

To be fair, the sectionals info isn't rocket science but it does require committing to memory (I still do 3 hours or so before flight review (now on my 4th) or session of holiday flying in FL) & not knowing them does raise the question "What other basic knowledge has not been properly assimilated?"

I assume that as the OP failed the oral whether or not the checkride was passed would be a moot point so he / she was at least spared the expense of flight time? (I'm on a FAA / JAA piggy backed licence so don't know the intricacies of the process)

Regards all, enq.

[Romeo Oscar Bravo]

I failed my first PPL in the uk. The club I was at put me in for my ppl before I passed ground school exams and without any revision. I just had 45hrs and they put me in.
Cost me £750.
Its down to the school, not you. The CFI should know if youre ready or not.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Anybody actually tried unfolding a chart and looking up some points of symbology whilst flying? It is not a recipe for safety and happiness.

G

[24Carrot]

Apologies for the thread drift...

In the UK you could once download a printable A4 chart legend from the CAA. This was useful for the reason Genghis gives - you could consult it without lining your cockpit with chart.

Trying the old CAA link takes me to NATS/AIS, who seem to have dumped the file. Searches only give the old broken links. Should we all scan our own now?:ugh:

[mrmum]

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-5CE02F5278D5A046FD38C1BA26B17B9A/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIP/GEN/EG_GEN_2_3_en_2010-06-03.pdf
Try here, AIP GEN 2.3.1

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Anybody actually tried unfolding a chart and looking up some points of symbology whilst flying?
No, but on the ground, whilst planning the flight, I have looked up odd symbols that I didn't recognise, or the footnotes you get on CAA charts, near the planned flight path.

[24Carrot]

mrmum, thanks for that!

[FlightPathOBN]

Read your whiny post again, stop looking for someone to share the blame with, stop reminding yourself of how good you are and how unfair the examiner was.


Concur...look into the mirror....

[Genghis the Engineer]

No, but on the ground, whilst planning the flight, I have looked up odd symbols that I didn't recognise, or the footnotes you get on CAA charts, near the planned flight path.

Likewise.

But diverting, you realise you're flying over something on the chart that you don't recognise the symbol for, and already are working very hard managing the diversion...

... my point being the validity of the examiners concerns about a candidate not knowing their way around the chart.

G

[MajorCorporalArse]

Possibly one of the biggest areas is having a sense that you are well prepared. I find/found that if an instructor told me i was really well prepared and up to scratch i under-performed to my expectations. Probably should be the instructors job to push you but that being said 90% is on you.

Obviously you have some areas which need working, It might not hurt you to even speak to that instructor who failed your PPL flight test and go through some questions or a simulated flight test.

I'm assuming you did a pre-ppl flight test with your instructor - jot down as many key areas you find that you are struggling with even if it takes you 1minute to find the answer it means you aren't quite prepared.

I had very similar issue, was confident in flying technique and ground i believed i was confident only to find i wasn't up to standard. This was a sense of false belief that i had sound knowledge and my instructor was confident (you are well prepared, one of the best technically etc etc) it set my mindset into a relaxed state which ultimately cost me another flight test purely because I wasn't switched on, i knew the answers but I was over-confident and under-prepared.

I realise now that I only had myself to blame, but at the time I did question "but my instructor told me i was ready, what did i do wrong". Only to realise how much further effort is required, a student doing bare minimum isn't worth passing.

TLDR; Study harder, you can't ever be over prepared only under prepared in aviation.

[M-ONGO]

I'm guessing he/she has passed the PPL by now...