First flight to France, 3 remaining questions...

[CruiseAttitude]

Dear all,

I am planning my first flight to France (LFAT) on Saturday, I've had a search and still have not found a definitive answer to the following questions.

1. Exactly what documents need to be carried onboard and which of these must be the originals? I will be flying a G-reg Cessna 172 VFR. Everywhere I read I seem to find slightly varying answers.

2. Will the flight plan filed at LFAT before my return flight be closed automatically by the A/G unit at my local airfield (EGSX) when I land. I assume LFAT will automatically close my outbound flight plan as they have full ATC.

3. Planning to coast out at Dover, can I stay with Manston and report the FIR boundary with them before changing to Lille APP? I've read somewhere about a legal requirement to report the FIR boundary to London Info? Also, who would be best to speak to on the return flight i.e. change directly to Manston after handoff or speak to London Info first?

Sorry, I know that flying to France is often over complicated and in practice should be quite easy. We have life vests and PLB ready and have read up about the GAR form which we will e-mail on the morning of departure, we will also e-mail LFAT at least 2hrs before departure.

Thanks for your help guys, i'm sorry if these are obvious questions.

[neilgeddes]

Manston should be fine for the boundary both ways. No need to speak to London Info, unless you want to. Le Touq will close your flight plan. Why don't you talk to ATC at North Weald?

Have a great trip!

[BackPacker]

Will the flight plan filed at LFAT before my return flight be closed automatically by the A/G unit at my local airfield (EGSX) when I land.

No, but that's not necessary. To the best of my knowledge, the UK is a bit odd in that flight plans are not closed (ie. there's no Arrival message going into the system). As the burden for initiating SAR action is on the arrival airport, this does not cause a problem for international flights. Or, at least, so it seems.

If you want to be sure that SAR action is initiated when you're overdue, you need to nominate a "responsible person".

It's a bit of an odd system and possibly not what ICAO intended, but it seems to work just fine.

I assume LFAT will automatically close my outbound flight plan as they have full ATC.

Yes

3. Planning to coast out at Dover, can I stay with Manston and report the FIR boundary with them before changing to Lille APP? I've read somewhere about a legal requirement to report the FIR boundary to London Info? Also, who would be best to speak to on the return flight i.e. change directly to Manston after handoff or speak to London Info first?

As said above, yes, no problem to talk to Manston instead of London Info.

the GAR form which we will e-mail on the morning of departure,

Make sure you adhere to the notification times. My advice would be to mail it one day in advance.

[Contacttower]

For return from an EU country you need to give customs 4hrs notice, so unless you are planning a really quick stop in France doing it on the morning should be fine.

No need to do it for the outbound flight as the UK does not have exit controls unlike France which (to non-Schengen agreement states) does.

Police have no interest unless flight is in the Common Travel Area, ie Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Republic of and Northern Ireland.

[TractorBoy]

You're not going in FC by any chance !:E

1. AFAIK all documents are the original - if you are who I think you are, just take the brown folder from the Squadron - should have everything you need
(C of A, insurance, noise certificate etc). Don't forget a copy of the interception procedures.

Safety Sense Leaflet 11: Interception Procedures | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1165)

is sufficient for this.

2. Yes and yes - actually I don't think NW close the flight plan, they simply don't initiate any overdue action.

3. I stick with Manston till mid channel, then tend to go straight to Le Touquet. Lille don't really care about you. I've also gone straight to Manston after leaving Le Touquet zone on the return leg. You could go to Lille, but again they won't be particularily interested in you. Lille is class E so there's no requirement to do so.

For the GAR, you can give it to the nice people in the office who'll do it for you. And I think the requirement to email Le Touquet has been shelved...

[Le Bigleux]

1. Exactly what documents need to be carried onboard and which of these must be the originals? I will be flying a G-reg Cessna 172 VFR. Everywhere I read I seem to find slightly varying answers.

Hi,

You can find the answer to your 1st point here (if you can read French): Détail d'un texte (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006077971)

This Order about civil aircraft using is applicable to any civil aircraft flying in French airspace. You may want to check the equivalent UK regulation for additional G-reg specific requirements. For example this Order specify that a F-reg aircraft flying in foreign airspace must carry a document describing the international interception procedure.

The relevant point is in paragraph 6.1. Actually for your flight the concerned documents are those (I believe all of these must be original, not copies):



the aircraft flight manual;
the weight & balance sheet;
the FPL if you filed one;
the appropriate charts for your trip;
the registration certificate;
the airworthiness certificate;
the noise limitation certificate (if applicable);
the radio equipment licence;
your licence and logbook;
the aircraft's logbook.


(Actually the aircraft's logbook is not always mandatory for F-reg aircrafts inside French airspace but there is some subtleties here and I won't enter details.)

This is a hand-made translation so they don't necessarly match the correct names in english. As TractorBoy pointed, all the aircraft documents are likely to be stored in the same folder.

Also, your aircraft must be equipped with a PLB or an ELT. Which will be the case anyway as you will fly over the Channel.

Of course I'm not an accredited translator so you can't hold me responsible for any consequence etc. ;)

Also I just created a new thread about some French regulation points which seem to be not largely known (or to put it simply: don't do a final approach on an airfield without ATS)

Hope it helped you!

[patowalker]

3. I stick with Manston till mid channel, then tend to go straight to Le Touquet. Lille don't really care about you.

That is not good advice.

RADIO CONTACT
Entry into French Airspace
....
The unit to be contacted
The radio contact must be established first with the flight information
centre (FIC) or flight information sector (FIS) concerned.
If it is impossible to establish radio contact with the FIC or the FIS
concerned when crossing the border, the pilot must contact preferably
the air traffic control units set up on the aerodromes, which are listed
below, in order to transmit them the «border crossed» message.
...
AJACCIO NAPOLEON BONAPARTE LFKJ
BALE MULHOUSE LFSB
BASTIA PORETTA LFKB
BIARRITZ-BAYONNE ANGLET LFBZ
CALAIS DUNKERQUE LFAC
CHAMBERY AIX-LES-BAINS LFLB
LILLE LESQUIN LFQQ
NICE COTE D’AZUR LFMN
PERPIGNAN RIVESALTES LFMP
STRASBOURG ENTZHEIM LFST

See ENR1.2.13 CROSSING THE BORDERS ...
https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/fr/..%5CPDF_AIPparSSection%5CAIP%20FRANCE%5CENR%5C1%5C1108_ENR-1.2.pdf

[dyslexnick]

The 2 hour notice is still required according to this https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/html/frameset_aip_uk.htm

I was there last week enroute Le Plessis,there was a notam advising no ATS service on a weds due staff shortage.The airfield is still open with all calls in french.

Nick

[Contacttower]

3. I stick with Manston till mid channel, then tend to go straight to Le Touquet. Lille don't really care about you.

Depends on what altitude you coast in at I guess, the CTR only extends to 1500ft with everything above and around being class E which VFR technically you don't have to talk to. So if you came in at a height that would put you in the CTR almost immediately after crossing the FIR then yes I guess you would have to pretty much go to Le Touquet.

But as patowalker points out the French rules say to contact the relevant FIC/S when crossing...so I'd do that if I were you...

[UV]

Whenever I use that route I speak to NW, Southend, Manston and then whoever Manston suggest..(depends on your Altitude). Never had a problem!
On the return you may well find Le Touquet will want to get rid of you very quickly and so either Lille or, maybe, go direct to Manston while still in French airspace. Because of this they will only give you an Alerting Service which will be upgraded when crossing the UK boundary.
There is no need to close a Flight Plan on return to the UK. NW Tower will take overdue action if you do not turn up within 30 minutes. In effect we are the "responsible person" mentioned.
Any problems phone us in the Tower in the morning.

Check the weather very carefully. I'm afraid it doesnt look good for a first Channel crossing on Saturday!
UV

[Fuji Abound]

L2K atc is notamed as closed as and when staff shortages dictate. You must check at the desk your fp has been closed in these circumstances.

Coasting out you will get a service from manston, lyd or london you take your pick or talk to no one as you wish. At or before the fir take your pick from lille or L2K at one time lille were happy to chat now they tend to suggest you call L2K direct.

I reckon i am on my 50+ visit over the years and still enjoy going - enjoy.