Aircraft down in the Wilcannia area

[Desert Flower]

Late this afternoon a Qantas aircraft was in contact with PXG (PA32) who was conducting a precautionary search with the intention of landing on a road in the Wilcannia area. Comms were lost with the aircraft, & it is uncertain whether it landed safely or not. As I write this, Rescue 421 (Dornier) has been in the area for some time, trying to contact the aircraft. Apparently no beacon has been activated, & the Dornier crew keep calling the aircraft on 124.9 telling him if he can read them to activate his ELT.

DF.

Further to this, Rescue 421 is now returning to Essendon. To my knowledge, no contact was made with the aircraft.

[gassed budgie]

Up in YBHI this morning and the nice lady in the kiosk at the terminal tells me it landed on a road somewhere and everyone was OK and accounted for.

[jas24zzk]

Know the PIC,
a whole swag of paperwork is going to follow this...............................


Got the basic gen from the club...................

Failing light, worsening Wx. PiIC elected to find a safe place to put down rather than push the issue.

PIC is no n00b, so his decision was the best one available....anyone that wishes to dispute that should keep in mind that when 6 heads and 1 aeroplane are considered condition A1 is a good result.

The full alert of the SAR team is a bit of an issue tho. As he was below VHF coverage and conversing via a QF aircraft, maybe that A/c should have been asked to stay in the area. He cancelled his SAR once safely on the deck via the QF arcraft, but never recieved a confirmation.(QF aircraft had moved out of radio range) That generated a full response from CENSAR. My thoughts are that the QF unit should have been asked to remain in area to maintain the contact.

My other thought is to the abilities of our emergency beacons. The PIC on this particular flight carries an approved beacon with full GPS. One of the criticsims i have heard is that he did not activate it, which generated a much higher SAR response than needed. If he had activated it then they would have found them faster, and evoked a rescue mission to that exact location.

But what about his situation....put it down safely, no damage, no injuries....what is the SAR assistance required? The way we are taught is to activate our beacon when in distress. If everyone is safe would you activate yours?

The new ELT's have a limited string of info they can transmit(albeit much better tham our old ones) Why not have a button/function on them that transmits co-ords + a message that says all ok, no immediate assistance required, that would stop unneccesary SAR flights.

As I said in my opening line, know the PIC, he's a solid guy with bags of experience and a person whom doesn't take fools lightly. If he got backed into choosing a road, then the situation devolped faster than a chog 6 can travel. I'm just glad my mate made a good decision in the interest of safety, and i can have a beer again with him when he gets home from the trip.

Cheers
Jas

[FJ44]

Good Result, everyone walked away and the plane can be used again.

How was he conversing with the QF aircraft, area freq or 121.5

That part of the country and that time of evening I would have thought that contact on 121.5 would have been possible with someone to pass on a confirmed SAR cancelation.

During my training I was never taught that if it all went :sad: that most high level traffic listens out on 121.5 and you can more than likely get hold of some one. Even waiting 15-30mins and trying again on the radio once on the ground could produce a result and save the full SAR call out.

In the end good result and not having a go but how many new ppl/cpl's don't know that people are listening?

[Sunfish]

The problem with accepting a "Cancel Sartime" without the usual means of authentication is that you could be condemning someone to a lingering death.

Better err the other way. In any case, who hasn't had their Sartime "lost"?

[jas24zzk]

been there..................had a sartime amended by way of relay, only to find it was cancelled when i rang to cancel it....pretty ****ty really when you are VFR in marginal wx.

[jas24zzk]

FJ,
without talking to the PIC (whom is much higher qualified than myself) My understanding is that he was conversing on Area Freq. In the area he was direct VHF comms to ML CEN was available as low as 3500'.

121.5 is now almost a misnomer, as if you are currently carrying a current EPIRB/ELB/ELT they do not transmit on that frequency anyway.

Cheers
Jas

[morno]

121.5 is now almost a misnomer, as if you are currently carrying a current EPIRB/ELB/ELT they do not transmit on that frequency anyway

Incorrect. They still transmit on 121.5 for homing.

morno

[Desert Flower]

My thoughts are that the QF unit should have been asked to remain in area to maintain the contact.

Oh really? A Qantas aircraft being asked to "hold" in the area so he can relay? Get real! :ugh:

DF.

[VH-XXX]

A Qantas aircraft being asked to "hold" in the area so he can relay?

DF, they are doing that all the time now, didn't you know?

Wasn't an American jet diverted to check on a small aircraft recently :)

[ReverseFlight]

No worries if you can't cancel Sartime by radio on the ground. Just call Censar on your mobile. I've done that before and they are equally obliging for IFR flights. :ok:

[jas24zzk]

Aircraft / location was outside mobile phone coverage............thanx to our government killing the CDMA system.

[jas24zzk]

I have heard multiple instances over the years where the big boys have been asked/tasked to go look after their little mates.

One of the issues put to me today with asking this particular QF to hold in the area for 5-10 minutes to maintain radio contact, was that they were headed west (to perth), where fuel for some types becomes critical.

I don't know how the airlines operate, but my CPL training says I must carry flight fuel, + 15%, plus wx mandated holding, plus any company reserve. One would like to believe that after being tasked for some SAR work, when you get to the other end, if you are breaching your reserves as used for the SAR work you would get priority to avoid controller induced holding, and if that fails you can call yourself fuel critical and get priority. You SAR tasking would turn CASA's response from a prosecution to a handshake.

I find it interesting that no-one has deigned to answer my biggest question tho. If you put it down safe, would you activate your ELT/EPIRB?

Cheers
Jas

[Deaf]

I find it interesting that no-one has deigned to answer my biggest question tho. If you put it down safe, would you activate your ELT/EPIRB?

There was a similar case a few years ago (weather, landing on a station strip no comms on ground) in WA. Radio search that night with big search commenced at first light.

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/82552-missing-plane-great-sandy-desert.html

At a following seminar AUSSAR suggested that use of a EPIRB would have saved a lot of effort, money and risk to searchers and that the use of an EPIRB would be justified in the circumstances

[scrufflefish]

That would depend on where it was. If you are in a remote area, you are going to need help to get home (assuming intact aircraft but no safe T/O strip). Without having confirmed radio or phone contact to cancel SAR and organise retrieve I would certainly use the ELT. No point landing safely and dying of thirst. :ok:

(Deaf, you snuck in from a long final while I was downwind!)

[Tankengine]

Regarding 121.5, even though EPIRBs now operate on 406, airliners still listen out on 121.5 while cruising.
I would think another aircraft would have been in range within an hour or so.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Sounds like a great outcome for what may well have turned in another story of pushing on when one shouldn't have, glad to hear everyone is safe.

I have logged around 15 hours in PXG and learned quite a bit from PXG's owner.

Jas was the pilot a certain identity from CEM I may be familiar with? (feel free to PM me)

[PA39]

We have been asked on several occassions to help out with SAR whilst in the vicinity. They usually ask a latest divert time (fuel) and ask to hold until assistance (air/ground) arrives. We used to get paid for our time and fuel.....does that still happen these days?

[VH-XXX]

Cost should not an issue when it comes to SAR operations. With the Dornier available at short notice it's reassuring to know it can be tasked and overhead your position in a short timeframe. Would be surprised to hear aircraft being asked to hold in an area if the Dornier is available given that it is equipped for the purpose Better to have a dedicated and equipped machine available than asking some PPL to start looking and or relaying. Hard to put a price on a life or multiples thereof.

[jas24zzk]

I have logged around 15 hours in PXG and learned quite a bit from PXG's owner.

Jas was the pilot a certain identity from CEM I may be familiar with? (feel free to PM me)

There are many identities around CEM :eek: Because of the trolls that float around here that have been to uni to learn the inane art of misquoting people, I am not going to reveal the pilots identity publicly or in PM. Sorry.

If you are interested stick your head into YCEM, (we have a comp day this coming sunday) and you'll be able to get all the gen first hand. You'll also be able to catch up on the changes that are about to happen. :cool:

Cheers
Jas

[Desert Flower]

Because of the trolls that float around here that have been to uni to learn the inane art of misquoting people, I am not going to reveal the pilots identity publicly or in PM. Sorry.

Jas, don't know why you're so secretive - anyone can look up the rego on the Australian Aircraft Register & find out who the owner is in an instant! :ugh:

DF.

[Pilotette]

PXG is parked next to me on the tarmac here in Birdsville now & the pilot doesn't look too worried by the impending paperwork..

[jas24zzk]

DF,
I was asked whom the pilot might be, not whom the owner is :wink:


Pilotette, Yes he's spent some time on the phone with his CFI/CP


Cheers
Jas