Reasons why i want to PVR......

[iccarus]

1./ I work more hours every day, than i fly in a month....

2./ We're so undermanned, i can't take leave. But they wont allow me to carry it over...

3./ I can't get promoted by being 'exceptional' at my job...

4./ I can't get time off to do AT...

5./ I can't get to the gym within my working day...

6./ I don't get a 'blunch' break...

7./ I committed to a career with the RAF and in return swore to display attributes such as honesty, integrity, diligence and loyalty. My employer no longer displays any of those qualities to me...

How about you??

[Grabbers]

8./ The civilian equivalent gets paid at least 50% more. Without the added SJAR and 'secondary' duty pony.

[VinRouge]

Civilian employers arent so.... gash. Many follow the rules because its the right thing to do, not because they have been forced to.

Comparable pay.

Outside employers value positive criticism and out the box thinking, displaying the same within the RAF will get you sacked or shafted in your next tour.

Lack of job security and stability

axeing of our allowances and most importantly, underhand changes (and threatened changes) to specialist pay that is only an allowance so we dont get it as a pension.

The recent displayed arrogance of AMP Brief team to questions on the above topic. My reply to typical blunty greeneyed response: "we will all leave for the airlines if you touch FP".Their response?

"No you wont". :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Civiles)

"No you wont". :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Despite all the hot air expended on this subject in the main I suspect they are right :ok:

[Kengineer-130]

Hit the button, enjoy the freedom :ok:

[StopStart]

1/ I flew my arse off
2/ I enjoyed the dets/exercises/training so wasn't really bothered about losing leave
3/ I wasn't interested in getting promoted so just had to deal with being above average in my primary duty and below average in trivia, hoop jumping & secondary toss.
4/ Managed to fit in AT by not going on holiday
5/ I generally could and if I couldn't I go out of my working day.
6/ I got "lunch" on the aircraft
7/ I committed to a career in the RAF because I enjoyed the flying, the people and the lifestyle. I went to work, followed the rules and did as I was told. Travelled the world, went to "war", generally did some quite cool stuff at the behest of the RAF and had a blast. I am quite content that the RAF doesn't owe me anything and am likewise happy that I owe it nothing either.

I told myself when I signed on for PAS that I would keep doing the job for as long as I enjoyed it and got something out of it. Those two simple tests were failed recently so I PVR'd. Simple enough. I wasn't really that bothered by allowances changes, JPA, fitness tests, flying pay, Lyneham closing, Airworthiness, Nimrods, Harriers (or whatever the latest gurn is) as the fun of the job itself outweighed all that rubbish. Once that was no longer the case the decision made itself.

Gurning on the internet serves no purpose other than to register your displeasure with life. If you don't like it then leave. If you can't leave for financial reasons then bite your lip, take the money and sit it out.

:ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Outstanding response :ok:

[ralphmalph]

If you can't leave for financial reasons then bite your lip, take the money and sit it out

My god there are many people in this category!. I am just waiting for the most opportune time to jump.....and that may be in a year or so. The point is, I have lost faith.

[Al R]

Vin,

Its not just mil allowances and pensions that are changing, don't forget..

BBC News - BA pensions: no going back on CPI inflation proofing (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14111188)

[Seymour Belvoir]

Got to agree with Seldom - SS, excellent post!

[Black 'n Yellar]

They scrapped my aeroplane!!!

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Mine too!

Duncs:ok:

[tridriver]

Soon to scrap mine too!

I wonder if the ROS is invalidated if forced into Ground tour post fleet draw-down?

Not that I,ve signed a ROS!

[Chicken Leg]

Iccarus, Grabbers, Vin Rouge........

So do it. PVR.

Ralphmalph,

If you can't afford to leave, you're obviously getting something out of the RAF that's satisfying?

[Chris Griffin]

Am I the only one getting increasingly fed up with the "if you don't like it just leave" mentality?

When you try introduce cogent debate as to what's wrong and what could be done to improve the situation (not all recommendations involve cash), all you get is the above response. In my view its a lazy weasel phrase used by those who cant be bothered to get involved.

There is an overwhelming feeling of apathy at pretty much every level in terms of generating improvements to daily life. I'm not saying it would stem the tide of PVRs, but every little helps.

To those who have PVRd - well done - you'll probably hit the market at just about the right time.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Agree totally with StopStart - when the minuses outweigh the pluses, that's the time to go.

[Really annoyed]

When you try introduce cogent debate as to what's wrong and what could be done to improve the situation (not all recommendations involve cash), all you get is the above response.

Come on then Chris, the stage is yours. Please inject some positive words onto this forum for once. Tell us, if you were in charge what you would do to change the RAF and stem the tide of apathy and discontentment that haunts this forum.

[Chicken Leg]

My point is that for as long as I've been coming on this site, people are moaning about their lot. Secondary duties, allowances, PT, flying hours, budget cuts etc etc. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of those complaining in 1999, are probably the same lot who are moaning now.

It's different now than it was. It will be different in 10 years time than it is now etc etc. As they say, the only constant is change. Either go with the flow and accept the changes that are thrust upon you, or make the changes yourself, but stop whining on website forums and warning how the whole armed forces are going to walk all at the same time. History suggests they won't and this website backs that up.

[Widger]

Chicken Leg,

I would love to agree with you but ....things are different.

Why I PVR'd and left.

1. With my pension and new salary I got an effective payrise for the first time in 3 years. (top of the pay spine for rank). In my new job, everyone has just got a pay rise..result!

2. With reductions in manpower promotion prospects were grim. Outside, the whole world has just opened up.

3. Despite doing everything to the best of my ability and getting credit in reports...it made no difference...no jobs/requirement.

4. SDSR.

5. Rape of allowances.

6. Pension changes due in 2015.

7. SFA on the rocks and entitlement to it under review.

8. Entitlement to SLA under review.

9. Harmony under review.

10. Manpower cuts.

11. Perfectly useful capabilities being cut to save what is an eyewatering sum of money. Less platforms = back to point 2.

12. Huge sums of money yet to be saved..PR11..PR12 etc all looking grimmer than a grim thing in grimland. = back to point 2.

13. Got out before the rush.

14. Not in the CEA trap and in the position of having to stay in cos' the kids need two more years at boarding school.

15. Gratuity was very nice thanks and made up for being paid 30-50% less than civilian colleagues I often worked alongside. Means I am now nearly in my own home for the first time, where I will stay. Kids get stability and so does Mrs W.

16. I now go home every night and still get the odd trip abroad, with realistic expenses.

So that's pretty much why I left. I was also aware in my last job of other stuff that made me think that I did not want to be a part of the organisation anymore. I feel no bitterness, I have many, many fond memories. The bad bosses and bad times have all faded and I am left with a sense of achievement and pride at over a quarter of a century in the Queen's Service.

I hope things improve for those that are left but I doubt much will get better before 2018. I feel sorry for those that want out but are not pensionable or in a financial situation that means thay cannot afford to leave. It is sadness that pevades. Sadness that decades of people have sweated, toiled and died for what they considered was the better good. To develop professionalism in all of the services. To be the best in the world in a plethora of specialist areas be it, ASW, ASUW, Int, AAW, Infrantry, Artillery, ISTAR and all the support trades that often get a poor press on forums such as this but whom, in their own way have skills that have been passed down through generations and developed, which are now being thrown away and will take decades to get back.

Sadness....that's the feeling, sadness attenuated with the relief that I am out!

Cheersnow

[Unchecked]

Widger -
:D
:D

[ghostnav]

From what I read elsewhere, they are PVR'ing! Remember, when the going gets tough, the tough get going and those left? Enjoy.

[Chicken Leg]

Widger,

A good post and I don't disagree with your points, but you make my point, don't you? You had good reasons for leaving......... so you left. Many won't, but will still be on sites like this one, arguing why they should.

If you want to leave, but 'can't' because of the pension trap or boarding school trap, that is a life style choice and indicates that the pros still out weigh the cons for those individuals. You can't say that cons out weigh the pros and then choose to stay, it's a contradiction, isn't it?

[The Old Fat One]

I sympathise with those that are on the point of PVRing...I did so myself many years back now, and partly for similar reasons.

However...comma

Do not look at civvy employment through rose tinted glasses. It is madness to suggest that your "equivalents" in civvy street are on much more money...unless you are a doctor or similar.

It is equally nonsensical to suggest the civvy employers are better than public sector employers...again that just does not stack up.

There are well paid jobs out here and there are very good employers too. But there are shedloads of crap jobs and shedloads of very crap employers and they are in the massive majority.

Not trying to argue in anyway against the PVR message...just be truthful with yourself and take a major reality check before you pull the handle.

[ex-fast-jets]

A little over 10 years ago, I was asked by the CinC of the day (STC then) what could be done to improve pilot retention.

I responded: "Give me 3 squadrons of F-16s, and base them at Chivenor.

He invited me to leave his office!

I was serious, but I wasn't taken seriously!

That might still work now, even with the arrival of Typhoon!

[Dengue_Dude]

Much is made of the volatility of civvy employment.

In the 10 years I flew commercially, I worked for 6 different companies. I enjoyed it.

I then was made redundant from EAT (DHL), it was the best thing that ever happened. I'm now working all the hours I want, minimum 37 hours and am treated as a valuable person with an opinion they WANT to hear.

For all the reasons I had when I exercised my NGR, however bad I thought it was then, it's factors worse now.

I have no idea how you guys/girls still serving manage to keep that top lip stiff. You have my respect.

I don't subscribe to the 'if you don't like it then leave' school as life is seldom that simple. It almost 'feels' like the betrayal of a dream for this pile of manure to be the new reality. Name one thing that's better . . .

But there are still dreams to be had in a new direction. Step out, you can be more masters of your own destiny than you are as politicians' punch bags.

Best of luck.

[Rigga]

As TOFO says, there are some crap jobs out here...but do you need to take them?

It takes two people to get one job.

First, you have to be offered the job. Second, you have to accept the job - if you want it.

During the interview you should/could be offered a trip around the place of employment and If you're not offered it - Ask for one!

I didn't do the tour at one quite reputable place - and regretted not doing so. I left after qualifying for the minimum Pension as it would have been a waste to leave without it.

It's your career - you steer it.

[SLLC]

I remember asking the then head of manning (can't remember the title - AVM someone) at a conference at the RAeS whether he agreed with me that a career in the RAF and a proper family life were entirely incompatiable (he had set out in his talk that loads of people were leaving, and as I had just PVR'd I thought I'd be helpful....)

His answer...

"well.....I'm divorced...."

So that did it for me. And yes, my ac type went too..... but I still enjoyed the Tutor to the bitter end!

I'd agree with all those who have basically said if you are not happy, then PVR. Otherwise, you only have yourself to blame - and get on with it with less whining. Fun as it is to read of course :ok:

[DummyRun]

Stoppers,

Yup, spot on, bet you wouldn't have pvr'd when you were having fish & chips with KM in the champagne bar at the Burg Al Arab though...........

I thought about pvr but it seemed to involve some admin so couldn't be arrsed:D

[DummyRun]

Oh, er, one other reason not to pvr,

You get home from night flying to find asian beach volleyball on C4,

I'm right behind the Kazakstani's, they're all over the Japanese girls at the mo.

mmm, sweet dreams all and happy endings....;)

[MAD Boom]

So why exactly did you start this thread? It seems to me that you have plenty of reasons to PVR, so go ahead, hit the button and stop the moaning.

Or are you looking for people to give you a cuddle and make you feel better, or a round of applause maybe? If that's the case, tell the people you know, those around you who care.

All you'll get on here are a load of people already on your band wagon, stirring up more bad-feeling, or people like me telling you to wind your neck in.

If you must do the Facebook thing and tell the world how you're feeling, do it with with actions and log on to JPA.

Good luck finding that greener grass, there's a lot of people out there looking for it.

[spectre150]

Blimey MAD Boom, ease up fella. I don't see a problem with Pprune including 'Faceprune' threads and it makes a pleasant change (for me) from the 'we should have kept the Harrier' and 'my Service it better than your Service' tosh. These threads I ignore - it is only people expressing their views and I can choose whether I want to hear (read) them or not.

I am sure you will be interested to hear why I PVR'ed :ok: A very lucrative offer of an easy job in a sunny climate came along - for me it was a no brainer and in my case the sand is certainly browner on the other side.

Blue skies.

[ShortFatOne]

Perhaps people feel the need to post because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the system is failing to listen to its most important asset, its people.

I pressed the button before I went OOA, it having come down to pure lifestyle/quality of life/enjoyment issues. I always promsied myself that the day I stopped enjoying it I would leave, that day happened back in October last year and having taken some time to consider my options (and making sure I at least had a CPL/IR in my pocket) I ejected.

Am I sad? Of course I am, I wanted to see out my service to 55. Do I blame the RAF for the decisions taken in SDSR? Not really, it was a sh*tty stick handed over by the politicians and they had no choice but to grab it. What has influenced my decision-making process since is the piss-poor management of personnel since. I don't mean at Stn lvl, I think they are doing all they can with what little they have but I no longer understand what the RAF is about, what sets it apart, what its aims and objectives are (sure they are written down somewhere but we haven't been following them for years) and this is from someone who has been in for 25 years.

I've rolled with the changes (for better or worse), sucked it up, manned up, dried my eyes etc etc etc. BUT, enough is enough. When an individual with 5000 hours, 2000 as a Captain, QFI experience on light and large 4-jet aircraft, simulator development experience, glass-cockpit experience, trials and eval experience, procurement experience and a shedload of other stuff is effectively chucked on the scrapheap without so much as a thank you (in fact CMD effectively indicated that Maritime Aviation in the RAF had been a complete waste of time, shows how much a politician knows. If he's got that impression from the Senior Management, then I've been working for the wrong outfit for 25 years), then it's time to ply my trade elsewhere.

To those who choose (and there is always a choice) to remain, I wish you the very best of luck. To those, like me, who decide to call it a day, man up, dry your eyes and look to the future!:ok:

[The Old Fat One]

SFO

Not only a good post...but one that is well worth reading by people on both sides of the fence. BZ.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

SFO,

Eccellente postare, amico mio!

Like the view from your office!

Duncs:ok:

[ShortFatOne]

It's hotter than a snake's ass in a wagon rut out here. It's so hot........etc.

Thoroughly enjoyed the first week in post, it's diffferent and I think we are making a difference (only time will really tell!). First time in a year I have actually felt like I am making a contribution, shame it will be my last!

Take care,

Ciao.

[Father Jack Hackett]

SFO,

Nail squarely on head.

Glad to see you've found yourself something decent on the other side.

Am I right in thinking you may have been a QFI at a certain non-scouse UAS at the RAF's premier airfield in the North-west?


Father Jack

[Yeller_Gait]

There really is no need for this kind of attitud., The fact is that people have had enough of the constantly changing, and degrading of the TOS, that most feel that the only option left is to leave.

When the RAF take away (throw away) all you have ever known, it is no wonder people are worried, and concerned for their future.

I do not know the answer, but some kind of solidarity among those remaining in the RAF would be a good start. Back-stabbing and bitching is exactly what the gov'ment want to hear.

Y_G

[Chicken Leg]

I do not know the answer, but some kind of solidarity among those remaining in the RAF would be a good star

A socialist Crab! It doesn't get any better!!

[BEagle]

...the RAF's premier airfield in the North-west...

Surely an oxymoron, tha' knaws by 'eck?

[Father Jack Hackett]

Beags,

No need for name-calling! ;)

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Surely you meant the RAF's ONLY airfield in the north west - premier though it may be.

Duncs:ok:

[Dancing Bear]

All I can say is I was most dissapointed when I pushed the button in July 10 on JPA 4 times that no klaxons went off, no one rushed into stop me and it was a bit of an anti climax really, unlike life outside where I now enjoy a (relatively) normal lifestyle with my wife and children, the grass is always greener if that is your mindset, if your are so unhappy then leave, but chances are you may take your unhappiness with you. Me, I had a really good run and enjoyed 19 1/2 years out of 20 (there was one really cr*p 6 months but that's another story), yes things have changed, yes there is more turmoil to come, yes you feel under the pump, yes there will be less promotion and more graft, but you do not have to stay if it upsets you that much. Personally I looked at my future and saw more time away from the family and decided enough was enough, there is more to life, I am not bitter and do not resent any of the 19 1/2 years I enjoyed, as a result I am looking forward to some time with the Reserves later this year which will give me the best of all worlds.
There are a lot of reasons to stay, there are a lot of reasons to go, at the end of the day it is your personal see-saw that will indicate the direction your path should lead. As to all the whining and whingeing on this thread, does make one chuckle!!!!!

[sidewayspeak]

the grass is always greener if that is your mindset, if your are so unhappy then leave, but chances are you may take your unhappiness with you

A very good point - all the psychobabalists say that the majority of a person's happiness is encoded into their genes and that we are programmed to be happy or misearable. Glass half-empty or half-full. Life is much nicer when you are surrounded by the later as it is infectious.

[Dancing Bear]

On that note sidewayspeak I shall raise my (half full) glass to your good health!!:ok::D

[I'm Off!]

Dancing Bear,

Isn't 'disappointed' spelt like this....?

:)

[Dancing Bear]

I'm off,

Not in my current environment, English is a struggle, let alone spelling, as you should well know!!!! And I thought I was the pedant out of the pair of us!! You don't need to point out that one should not start a sentence with "And", just in case you feel the need........

Hope your keeping well and safe!:ok:

[Dr Schlong]

Dancing Bear, "Your" or "You're"? ;)

You can find me in Pendants' Corner! :ok:

[Dancing Bear]

Well, that's three of us then, except clearly "I'm off" and "Dr Schlong" are further in the corner!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[EESDL]

Hey SS
The RAF will be a poorer place without you............
Some tend to forget that for those in the mob it is (or was) our mob, not some bean counter who-is-wearing-nylon-in-SHQ-on-hiss-poor-scribbly-pay's mob.
The '+' and '-' mentality works well, surely no one joins for a careeer when part of such a mechanism is to sit on your arse in MOD pushing bollocks you don't believe in?
Might have done things differently myself - but not sure would have enjoyed the outcome so much.
Thanks to everyone for tolerating me whilst I was in, if I caused harm I didn't mean it (unless you played rugby against me), if I caused laughter, it was intentional.
Civvy street has some great friendships waiting, usually wannabe-RAF-pilot-but-eye-sight-failed-them kind of people, joke!
Using the same formula mentioned by SS, I find myself in a dark country but the regulated stand-down gives me quality of life blah blah. Woke up one morning and found I was becoming one of those people I despised - a cynical bugger who wanted to change things - only I knew that you could never take on 'Town Hall' and things would never change for the better as to many people/companies had too much invested interests.
Didn't go airlines because I preferred cockpit doors that didn't lock and the only crap that I wanted to breath was my own!
Went for the 'poorer' option of rotary but feel far richer somehow and my wife doesn't think I'm chasing skirt on every flight.
Different for everybody
Happy Days

[ShortFatOne]

Aye, that will be me. A thoroughly enjoyable, if somewhat truncated, tour which I look back on with fond memories.

Mind you, I didn't say I had found anything on the other side. Indeed I am far from it, but I'm prepared to take my chances along with everyone else (it also helps that Mrs SFO has a job!).

Rgds

SFO

[cornish-stormrider]

Gents - just remember, to those above you are just another number.... If you go they will find someone else. PVR'ing was the second best decision I ever made. The first was joining.
I have been in my current job for five years - home every night, couple of jollies away.

Yes the stress is epic and times are still hard in manufacturing but I have achieved far more and had more satisfaction outside than 90% of my time in.

Would I go back, not now - would I rejoin the RAF I once knew - Duh.....of course but it will never come back.

Look forwards - and some words of advice. the private sector has long since stepped beyond bullS*** bingo Buzzwords and management speak, we want results and understandable numbers.

If you are serious about PVR don't worry, the things I look for most in an employee are -

1. Integrity
2. Ability to fit into my team
3. Work Ethic
4. Can they learn the skills they don't have
5. Do they have the skills already.

Good Luck - it is tough out here but still easier than getting into and through ZobU - "Cranditz" I believe you call it. If you can make that then you should make it out here, Just don't bore me forever with WIWAL or WIWAB or wherever - If I want tall stories I'll ask.

CS

Oh and before you ask, I am not recruiting. I have just filled my latest posts

[Dancing Bear]

Stormrider, wise words and well said, no I do not want a job!

In fairness the skills we have all amassed in the military time we have racked up gives us experiences most of our civilian counterparts cannot contemplate, however at interview the ability to verbalise it, explain it and, most importantly, make it relevant to the position you would perhaps like to fill is a skill which anyone can acquire, and in that respect we are no better prepared, indeed sometimes perhaps less so, than our civilian peers. For all things it comes down to the qualities you have listed coupled with the prior preparation we all used to do so that we did not get caught with our pants down, or if we did, then we could explain why we were, and why the Staish's daughter was underneath us!!!

[Corporal Clott]

Bull**** Bingo and Management Speak is still alive and well in:

Consultancy Companies - Ernst & Young, Price-Waterhouse Coopers, etc...
IT outsourcers - Hitachi, Fujitsu, HP, etc...

They also snap up ex-mil people as they like people who are comfortable working in MOD and OGDs.

So times are not so tough out there. A SO1 or SO2 with a reasonable management degree or MBA should easily attract a job with a 6 figure salary - work as boring as sh!t but you can buy a nice Pitts Special to pull the wings off when you take the odd day off or at a weekend. But this is more attractive than flying rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong or taking the great unwashed to Barcelona 3 times a day - and it pays better than 99% of airline jobs.

CPL Clott

[Really annoyed]

and why the Staish's daughter was underneath us!!!

You wouldn't want ours underneath you she is a complete hippocrocadillapig.

[Shack37]

Pendants corner? Schlong, don't you mean Pedants' corner?



No, he meant he was hanging around.

[Father Jack Hackett]

Storm rider,

I believe in the current parlance, it is referred to as "Crantanamo".

[Trainspotter]

It's horses for courses Cpl Clott.....I quite enjoy touring the world with rubber
dog pooh....and last time I checked it pays me 6 figures as well:ok:

[pr00ne]

Corporal Clott,

You said;

"A SO1 or SO2 with a reasonable management degree or MBA should easily attract a job with a 6 figure salary - work as boring as sh!t"


Er, do you realise just how rare jobs are that pay a salary anything remotely like that? They are rare as hens teeth for everyone, trying to convince an SO1 or 2 that he or she can just waltz into a post paying that sort of money is simply misleading at best and disingenuous at worst.
You will disappoint a lot of people with that kind of nonsense.

[BEagle]

pr00ne is, on this occasion at least, entirely correct.

Mind you, for those of us with a six-figure pension*, who'd want to work anyway?
























*if converted to Mexican pesos!

[Corporal Clott]

Not misleading, I know of several ex Lt Cols/Wg Cdrs/Cdrs and the rank below working for the "big 4" in the City (PWC, E&Y, Deloitte and KPMG) with MBAs and good business school degrees. Starting salary as an associate ia normally about £80-100k with a £20-30k bonus. Its a cut throat world to get to Partner but then you could be on £500-800k plus a %ge of the deals that you land.

Its megabucks in this world - look at where some of the corporate people came from in the Defence Reform Unit, Key Systems Advisers and some of the NITEWORKS projects; some are paid for their services at a DAILY rate of £1500-£2000!!! Kind of puts the supposed "mega bucks" in the airlines in the shade, doesn't it?

That said, selection into the big four takes 6-12 months of various interviews. They are looking for ex Service people with the right skills and most importantly connections into MoD and OGDs. That is why SO2+ ranks are only lilely to succeed due to the need to have working relationships at SO1 to at least 2 star level.

If you don't go to the big four then others like Dettica, Hewlett Packard, Hitachi, Serco Defence, etc... are always looking for good people as well. Their salaries are typically 20% lower but with a bonus you could well be in 6 figures.

So I standby my original statememt.

[pr00ne]

Corporal Clott,

Yes it is a misleading statement, massively. To say that you know of several folk at that rank who work for the big 4 is nothing like saying that any SO1 or 2 with an MBA should be able to EASILY attract a job with a six figure salary!

I am a Barrister and I spend a lot of my time in the corporate side of the City. It is simply not the case that the place is overflowing with six figure salaries and that they are easy to come by.

Sure they do exist, but you have to be smart, good and INCREDIBLY LUCKY to get anywhere near that level of financial reward.

The 'Big 4' as you call them hardly touch the defence world as it is now and that is only going to get a whole lot worse as defence budgets are cut around the world.

Stop misleading folk.


Now, my Saturday night calls...

[Lima Juliet]

My wife works for one of the "big four" (Big Four (audit firms) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_(audit_firms))) and earns a 6 figure salary with bonus and one of her peers is a recently retired Lt Col from the Army (recently ex MOD).

She also recently contracted for a variety of defence related departments for £700-900 per day.

Those numbers are pretty typical in her sphere of IT and Change Mgt within the public sector.

So the money is out there if you know how to market yourself. She has recruited ex-mil types and says they are generally woefully bad at underselling themselves and also at not writing a bespoke CV for a specific job.

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Pr00ne

Have a look at Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | Defence Reform Unit starts work (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/DefenceReformUnitStartsWork.htm)

There's an E&Y man there (Head of Aerospace, Defence, Security and Resilience at Ernst & Young) - so you are quite wrong they are not interested. Also I know that E&Y, PWC and Deloitte are all in the defence (or maybe defense in your case?) sector.

Here's Deloittes's web site for Defence Aerospace & Defence (http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/industries/manufacturing/aerospace-defence/index.htm)

LJ

[Corporal Clott]

Six figure salaries - £100,000+ isn't that big a salary. A level-7 Lt Col/Wg Cdr/Cdr on flying pay is on £90k!

If you're not on 6 figures as a lawyer in the City then that sounds a bit off tune to me...:confused:

CPL Clott

PS. Heard that a Gp Capt is leaving MoD on nearly twice his wages in the next 6 months working as a consultant for one of the consultancies trying to break into the Govt sector. Shame really, as he is a top bloke, but hey, the way the military is treating its people at the moment then I don't blame him (and if he didn't leave then he probably wouldn't have impressed and be attracting that kind of salary).

[ACSfirstfail]

Chaps,
If U don't like the RAF...PVR, if U do like it, then stay. Don't rant & rave about it. Is the grass greener on the outside...who knows...depends what job U get. Money ain't everything!