Terminating flying with your student

[leading edge!]

Well, this was a first for me. I have ** years of instructing experience and I have just terminated flying with a student.

Yes, I have asked students to sometimes carefully consider continuing with the flying syllabus, if they are really not getting a grip....And of course we know that students drop off the radar because of changes of circumstances...

BUT....

I have to be careful how much I reveal. My student had flown with me a few times and already holds a licence not applicable to this a/c type, with little experience. He/she was keen to start flying a different a/c (sorry to be vague), for which training was required.

From the start, I felt as though everything was being questioned and my student always had a better method of flying than me, or so he/she claimed. After generally coming around to my way for some areas of flying, I then found opposition to an air exercise (similar to previous opposition), which had potential to end in a very serious safety implication. My student was unable to adopt my methods, as he/she had a better idea.

As a result, I terminated instructing with this individual. I am normally very patient, but after this constant attrition of student versus instructor opposition, during training, I just could not carry on.

I feel quite bad now, but am sticking to my guns, since there is a safety implication. The degree of confidence this individual has, is just not condusive to safe flight practice.

Has anyone else experienced this?

LE!

[Pull what]

Yes I have and also in a similar way after a flight test when I had to ask on a few occasions-"can we just clarify who is the examiner here"?

There are some people who just cannot accept instruction, quite a few end up in the right hand seat of airliners unfortunately

[Genghis the Engineer]

As a brand new and just qualified instructor, no.

As a amateur martial arts instructor of about 8 years standing, yes, several times. We however at-least have elegant approaches to dealing with the problem there not readily available in flying instruction.

At-least not unmodified - providing ample opportunities for somebody's dangerous incompetence to scare them is easy in a dojo. Less easy in an aeroplane, but not impossible.

G

[goldeneaglepilot]

Sadly that is the way of a minority of students. Ego, sometimes lots of cash and an attitude that they are better / know better than anyone else does happen.

My attitude to them is to try to explain what the issue is,if that fails, then quietly walk away, but let them know why I will waste no more time with them. I am also not afraid of letting the other instructors around me know exactly what I have said and why.

[fsfaludi]

The one very valuable quality you will take away with you from having become a flight instructor is you develop a good sense of "where to draw the line" in any given situation. This experience will always serve you well regardless of what type of flying you ultimately do. I personally would always prefer to fly with ex-flying instrucotrs... all else being the same.

[madlandrover]

Sounds like you did the right thing. I've not had to formally terminate a course yet, but have in 1 case had to give strong advice to a student/his bank balance that the 2 of them weren't going to complete a PPL together. It sounds as if continuing with your student could have let to safety issues which would only have worsened when/if they were allowed out alone in the machine.

[cavortingcheetah]

You're not talking about one of those self appointed ex fast jet RAF Wallahs? As if there were any such thing as a slow jet.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think it's a division between large jet (transport) and fast jet.

Personally I always took it that ejection seat = fast jet, not = not.

G

[Teddy Robinson]

And when they screw up, your licence is not on the line.

[breakscrew]

My criteria is: 'You have had your once chance to kill me; I am not going to let you have the opportunity again. Good day Sir/Madam!'

[Sleeve Wing]

Very interesting thread, this.
I've got a difficult guy at the moment: designs softwear for flitesim games.
Thinks its all easy but still gets lost ! So I let him !...........and he still thinks he's ready for his Qualifier !
Definitely some resistance to being told anything. He's convinced himself he can do better on his own !!

Another factor is that he mixes with a large number of well qualified pilots at the school and, because he has conversations with them, already thinks he's as good as they are.

Would an instructor change do the trick ? You know, the old "grey-list" system ?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Very interesting thread, this.
I've got a difficult guy at the moment: designs softwear for flitesim games.
Thinks its all easy but still gets lost ! So I let him !...........and he still thinks he's ready for his Qualifier !
Definitely some resistance to being told anything. He's convinced himself he can do better on his own !!

Another factor is that he mixes with a large number of well qualified pilots at the school and, because he has conversations with them, already thinks he's as good as they are.

Would an instructor change do the trick ? You know, the old "grey-list" system ?

I have had a few students like this when I was a full time lower houred instructor. My strategy was to ride them hard on every single little mistake they made. The only way to get me to shut up was for the student to do it right. My success rate was about 50%. Some guys (and it was always guys :rolleyes:) after initial resistance took it on as a challenge and worked really hard to do better than me (which isn't all that hard:O) and then invariably had the "ahh hah" moment when they realized the value of being good. The other group just found another instructor.

Fortunately for me I now only instruct as a past -time as I have a full time well paying career in another sector of aviation and so I can be very choosy about who I teach. Those that exhibit any of the following traits: posers-lazy-stupid-bad attitude-know it alls-uncommitted etc, get graded out very quickly:E

[Tinstaafl]

Sleeve Wing, you could try writing a *detailed* tick-the-box page (well, multiple pages, usually) with every item of every task of every stage of the flight that must be done, including tolerances. Be thorough & detailed. Include mandatory fail items eg CTA without clearance. Give him a copy with the advice that he's ready when he gets a tick in the good boxes, and all empty fail boxes. Allow room for a short memory jogger note next to each item. Think of it as a script for the conduct of the flight.

Go flying with him. Don't say a word from planning to postflight. Just tick, or not, as you work down the list. Use the notes for both good & bad things eg good: Altitude out of tolerance at this point in the flight but was due turb. Self corrected to in tolerance.

Hand him a copy after the flight & let him see for himself. Use the notes for the inevitable justifying of why he did this or that contrary to the requirements. The final arbiter is whether he did, or did not, fly within the requirements.

[PowerDragTrim]

'I think it's a division between large jet (transport) and fast jet.

Personally I always took it that ejection seat = fast jet, not = not.'

Bludheck - that makes a JP fast!!

[Genghis the Engineer]

And a VC10, which can /could beat just about anything but Concorde across the Atlantic, slow.

G