insight of ground using a Flir camera

[jxc]

Ok Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons

Could you use a Flir thermal imaging camera to be insight of the ground legally ?

[The500man]

Why? Are you thinking about purchasing an SR-71 Blackbird? You're right you could fly VFR in space but you may have a problem seeing the ground. A camera is definitely the way to go! ;)

[Crash one]

Must you have an IR to fly in space? I seem to recall everything above FL60? is class A.

[The500man]

It's okay no one will be able to catch you to check whether you have an IR or not. You may have to call Jersey for PPR though if you're flying in the vicinity of Earth! ;)

[Pilot DAR]

I have done quite a lots of flight test with infra red. Generally, it is an excellent safety enhancement. It does have limitations though, and the pilot must be aware of them. It is possible to see through thin layers of mist or fog, but "cloud" will stop the image. Care must be used, particularly when flying at night, as you can accidentally enter cloud, while following the infra red image display.

Certainly worth the investment thought...

This is a photograph of the display, while I flew a FLIR equipped EC-120 on trials in British Columbia....

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Jims%20DAR%20Testing/IMG_0159.jpg

[Captain Smithy]

Hmm. Although strictly speaking using a FLIR to stay in sight with the ground is flying on instruments, which means IFR... so no it wouldn't be legal for VFR...

Smithy

[BEagle]

From the UK Air Navigation Order:

‘Visual Meteorological Conditions’ means weather permitting flight in accordance with the Visual Flight Rules;

‘With the surface in sight’ means with the flight crew being able to see sufficient surface features or surface illumination to enable the flight crew to maintain the aircraft in a desired attitude without reference to any flight instrument and ‘when the surface is not in sight’ is to be construed accordingly.Make of that what you will....

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd be inclined to regard using the FLIR camera as "looking at a flight instrument".

G

[Pilot DAR]

Think of it this way: You can divide just about all instrument in the aircraft into two types: Those which provide you information with will not extend the capabilities of the aircraft, ans those which could be used to extend the capabilities of the aircraft. Instruments like airspeed indicators, tachometers, and oil pressure indicators, though required by regulation, with a few exceptions and grey zones, cannot be used to enable the aircraft to do anything it could not, were that instrument not have been there.

The instruments which are most commonly installed to extend the capabilities would be the artificial horizon, and radio navigation instruments. These enable you to fly out of visual reference with the ground. whic is somethong which you could not do were they to not be installed.

Therefore, though the presence of the instrument itself in the aircraft may not violate operational regulations, how you use it might. Infra red, or synthetic vision certainly fall in these catagories. To some degree, this is borne of the concern as to how your flight would continue safety immediatly after it failed, were you to be relying upon it. Would the failure even be recognizable?

This is the senitment which results in the "Not for primary navigation" placards on some systems. To remind you that you are not allowed to make your flight dependant upon it.

Infra red is a great safety nice to have, but otherwise should not be expected to be used to extend operational capability beyond what it would otherwise have been.

[jxc]

Could be a grey area

YouTube - ‪Portland RVR Max Demo‬‏

YouTube - ‪Max-Viz EVS 2200 on Cessna Citation‬‏

[Ultranomad]

Must you have an IR to fly in space? I seem to recall everything above FL60? is class A.
Everything above FL660 is uncontrolled.

[kalleh]

Why? Are you thinking about purchasing an SR-71 Blackbird? You're right you could fly VFR in space but you may have a problem seeing the ground. A camera is definitely the way to go!

No SR-71 needed, it is/will be a purchase option for the Cirrus:

Cirrus Perspective - EVS (http://www.cirrusaircraft.com/perspective/evs.aspx)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I seem to recall everything above FL60? is class A. >>

Glad I don't fly with this guy!!

[The500man]

I love how the Cirrus EVS cockpit photo is displaying soon to be roadkill. It's an expensive dinner though if you include the prop refurbishment.

[Windy Militant]

I would say no, as VFR stands for Visual Flight Rules. If its a true FLIR system it uses non optical wave lengths which are not visible with the naked eye. Now if it was 8 to 10µ Flight Rules.............

[Crash one]

<<I seem to recall everything above FL60? is class A. >>

Glad I don't fly with this guy!!


Pardon me for getting something wrong! I had no idea it was a hanging offence:mad:

[PompeyPaul]

‘Visual Meteorological Conditions’ means weather permitting flight in accordance with the Visual Flight Rules;

‘With the surface in sight’ means with the flight crew being able to see sufficient surface features or surface illumination to enable the flight crew to maintain the aircraft in a desired attitude without reference to any flight instrument and ‘when the surface is not in sight’ is to be construed accordingly.
Sounds like VFR at night time is banned then!

[mrmum]

It is in the UK, where it's IFR at night (or SVFR in a CTR). Unlike a lot of the rest of the world which have "night VFR" or similar.

As quoted above though, "in sight of the surface" allows for the use of surface illumination, rather than actual surface features to maintain aircraft attitude without reference to instruments.

So at night in the UK you can be VMC, but must fly in accordance with IFR (OCAS).

[BillieBob]

It is in the UK, where it's IFR at night This will, of course have to change before next April when the EASA Implementing Rules come into force. Thereafter, it will be illegal to fly under IFR even in VMC, without a valid instrument rating.