European airlines - choice of drinks?

[JUAN TRIPP]

Wonder if anyone can help here. I'm cabin crew with BA and had an interesting chat the other day with one of our card holders. He was drinking Campari and orange. We got chatting and he commented that one big reason he likes BA in Europe was that we are one of a tiny handful of airlines that still has a great choice of drinks available both in club and economy. He stated that a lot of airlines on European routes now only have beer, wine and a small choice of juices and minerals available to drink in both cabins. Also all BA have is still free.
Is this true. Can't believe some of the big airlines only carry a small range of drinks nowadays. Thanks.

[Hotel Tango]

Aah, Campari and orange, my favourite Summer drink. Not so easy to get on airlines, depending who you fly with. I think that you have to differentiate between lowcost and the legacy majors. Also bear in mind that quite a number of so-called legacy carriers have now adopted the low cost service model. Now, the more choice you offer the more weight you carry. That's a no-no these days. So, yes, choice has become somewhat limited on some airlines today.

[radeng]

Can't help much. I flew Iberia business class last December to Las Palmas via Madrid. They had an enormous choice, and better food than BA Club Europe - although that isn't difficult. Ask for brandy after the meal and they bring two bottles of good Spanish brandy for you to choose from. Admittedly, no cognac and no champagne - just a Spanish sparkling wine, which was still pretty good. They also had Tio Pepe.....

Last time I flew BMI/Lufthansa, the service was so-so and it was German sparkling wine.

My choice is still BA.....

[vctenderness]

I seem to remember a trial in BA at Gatwick a few years ago and they removed all spirits from bar.

The choice was Beer, wine, soft drinks and tea coffee.

Don't know if that is the case now though.

[WHBM]

There are a significant number of us who do not see the bill for the trip because our company/corporate travel agent arranges it. So it is the peripheral aspects that govern choice. Which departure airport/time means I can get home the earliest. Which has the worst airport queues. And definitely, who has the pleasantest cabin service choice.

I read repeatedly "what does the cabin service matter on a one hour flight". I can only presume those who write this are armchair travellers who never actually make the trip, let alone once or twice a week. Leave home at 0445, back at 2200, and the only moments for relaxation in the whole day are over a hot breakfast on the 0800 departure and that G&T and food on the evening return.

Airport restaurants before departure ? Haven't seen the inside of one for a long time. Always dashing past. Lunch at the client's premises, at least ? No, not when you spend the entire lunch hour on ten phone calls trying to get something sorted out for the afternoon.

But if BA do good service, and BMI do not ...... that's the choice of me and all my colleagues. Airline Commercial Directors please note.

[cavortingcheetah]

He's right about that as far as KLM is concerned. The airline often doesn't seem even to carry sparkling water which is fine, still water also tastes nice, but how does the man who wants a spirit and splash get it?

[L'aviateur]

WHBM I'd say that your probably in the minority with that. Most companies i've worked for go for the cheapest flights, some will have a selection of preferred airlines and others will at least spend a little bit extra for a better routing although have one been offered FLL-EWR-LHR-AMS-CDG-HUY because it was cheaper!
Although, if I was in the minority that get a choice, or a tourist I'd try to go for an airline which offers better service!

To answer the original question, yes there is a decline of what is available with some airlines in European Business Class.
The only down side with BA is that you have an all economy domestic sector, a bit of a come down for someone arriving into LHR from longhaul first, enjoying the excellent lounge and then suddenly finding themselves scrabbling for space amongst the punters and fighting to put their bags in the overhead bins.
When you travel in Asia shorthaul with the likes of Asiana or SQ, its an absolute pleasure.

[WHBM]

although have once been offered FLL-EWR-LHR-AMS-CDG-HUY because it was cheaper.
That's not a "cheapest option" travel agent. That's an incompetent travel agent who doesn't know the relative locations of LHR and HUY. In fact, it may be a travel agent offering the "cheapest" option ticketed on 'their' airline which is offering the agents a weekend to Cancun next month to any who book 20 transatlantic trips this month.

[radeng]

Another part of the problem is the travel agent/travel manager/purchasing department who figure that all that matters is ticket cost, and don't take into account the cost of the time. Because so many people who travel are expected to do overtime for nothing - 'it goes with being a professional person' - they think it doesn't matter. I've always put the full hours on the timesheet, so that there is a charge......

Now I'm self employed, it's really up to me - but at my standard rate of £100 to £150 an hour, you have to save an awful lot to make cheap flights worthwhile when you consider how much longer it takes me to get to and from Stansted rather than Heathrow.

[Rush2112]

First things first - in answer to the OP, SQ still have a full selection of drinks in both economy and business, especially long haul.

My company is on a bit of an economy drive at the moment and Air Asia / Tiger(!) / etc are being pushed, but I will always stick with SQ even though it's a bit more expensive. WHBM sums it up - dash to the airport, no dinner, all you can hope for is something half decent on the plane.

Also, my most frequent trips these days are to Jakarta, and SQ have 6 flights a day. I have almost never caught the flight back that I was originally booked on - meetings get cancelled at the last minute, the traffic's terrible and I get to CGK late, the traffic's OK and I get there early... If I do get there early, and cannot change my flight, I can go to the lounge and work, if I am on AA, there's nowhere to sit and work, so it's wasted time. By flying AA I could save the company $100, but then get a situation where I have missed the flight, can't get on another one till the next day - surely my time is worth more than $100. Well, I know it is 'cos I do the budgets(!) False economy.

[prim737]

Nordic carriers have gone downhill inregards to onboard service. SAS (economy) nothing on european flights and Long Haul pay for drink after the second one. Finnair you get a coffee but Long Haul, miserable, thank god I purchased some sandwiches at BKK for the flight home. Only good Scandi carrier is Malmö Aviation who still give a sandwich and a coffee/drink and that's on domestic sectors. SAS could really learn something from them!

[radeng]

It can be very hard to get over to travel people that if you have a customer meeting due to finish at 1730 on a Friday and it takes at least an hour to get to the airport - possibly longer on Friday night - and the cheap flight is 1845, yoiu have to stay an extra night in a hotel. But the legacy carrier is at 2015....which is cheaper?

According to our company travel agent at the time, you could not go by train from Stockholm to Copenhagen. they ahdn't heard of the bridge! Then they said it took 24 hours and three changes......I gave up and booked directly with Swedish railways! Travel agents and departments are best avoided wherever possible.....

[WHBM]

It can be very hard to get over to travel people that if you have a customer meeting due to finish at 1730 on a FridayHello Radeng. How many of your "finish 1730 meetings" are you even out of the client premises by 1830 ? Half ?

According to our company travel agent at the time, you could not go by train from Stockholm to Copenhagen. they hadn't heard of the bridge! Then they said it took 24 hours and three changes......I gave up and booked directly with Swedish railways! Travel agents and departments are best avoided wherever possible.....
I came to the conclusion long ago that travel agency staff were principally formed from those who never made it to higher education and so wanted something to do until they found a husband and got married, something which maybe didn't pay too well but had good perks and bonuses. It may not be politically correct to say this, but we mustn't let that get in the way of the facts. Having GCSE Geography cannot be part of the requirements because they appear generally unable to even read a map, let alone use one sensibly, and LET alone actually know the geography of where they are sending people to. Putting origin and destination into the booking engine of their favourite carrier is as far as many are capable of going.

Here are some belters that have come my way (or through our office, as you can imagine they often get referred to me ....)


"No direct flights from London to Orlando, it is necessary to change at St Louis" (this at a time when TWA, with a hub at St Louis, were running a travel agency promotion, of course).
Asking for the 1930 next day London to Dublin, by phone, getting a locator sent back, TOD, then when getting to the airport finding it had been booked on the 0730 that morning.
Making the reservation but not buying the ticket (which we mere mortals cannot do any more but travel agents can) at least THREE times over the years.
Being told to check in at London City an absolute minimum of 2.5 hours before an 0700 flight to Amsterdam, "Because it's International", when the terminal didn't even open until 0530.

[easyflyer83]

I came to the conclusion long ago that travel agency staff were principally formed from those who never made it to higher education and so wanted something to do until they found a husband and got married, something which maybe didn't pay too well but had good perks and bonuses. It may not be politically correct to say this, but we mustn't let that get in the way of the facts. Having GCSE Geography cannot be part of the requirements because they appear generally unable to even read a map, let alone use one sensibly, and LET alone actually know the geography of where they are sending people to. Putting origin and destination into the booking engine of their favourite carrier is as far as many are capable of going.

Here are some belters that have come my way (or through our office, as you can imagine they often get referred to me ....)


"No direct flights from London to Orlando, it is necessary to change at St Louis" (this at a time when TWA, with a hub at St Louis, were running a travel agency promotion, of course).
Asking for the 1930 next day London to Dublin, by phone, getting a locator sent back, TOD, then when getting to the airport finding it had been booked on the 0730 that morning.
Making the reservation but not buying the ticket (which we mere mortals cannot do any more but travel agents can) at least THREE times over the years.
Being told to check in at London City an absolute minimum of 2.5 hours before an 0700 flight to Amsterdam, "Because it's International", when the terminal didn't even open until 0530.
Never worked in the travel agency industry but you do come across as a bit of a :mad: head mate. "Come across" being the crucial part of that sentence.

Your list sound more like simple mistakes and the last one simply being someone not fully aware of the rather unique LCY. Either way, business travel agency staff (from my experience) are generally very good at what they do, pay is generally better and as a consequence, the criteria for applying is considerably more specific.

I have higher education and I'm cabin crew and work with several other people who hold degrees. It doesn't always mean anything.

As for geography I too consider myself to be quite knowledgeable but it's a big world out there so becareful because one day you might end up eating your own words.

[Chuchinchow]

Forgive me for intruding in what appears to be private grief, but we appear to be getting just a leetle off-message here.

The title of this thread is European airlines - choice of drinks? - and not the pros and cons of using travel agents, the alleged peccadilloes of in-house travel departments, or even the fabled educational achievements of cabin crew.

Sheesh!!

[easyflyer83]

Threads sometimes evolve. Get over it.
Sheesh

[TightSlot]

The content, however, is becoming less attractive by the moment. A bit of thread drift never hurt anybody, but please may we keep things friendly

[radeng]

One point company travellers should note is that unless you have a fixed contract with a travel agent (for example, because the company doesn't do that much travelling), booking direct can be quite a bit cheaper - in our case it was £4.50 direct on BA, £30-00 via the agent.

It's a long time since I flew Air France: that was Business Class LH, and there was a very good selection of drinks. Similarly Finnair LH - in both cases to Seoul. Admittedly, no Lagavulin.......sadly BA doesn't have Calvados, though.

[Rengineer]

Lufthansa for one certainly offer very decent wine - varying selection - on their short haul flights even in economy, and last time I asked (a while back), you also got free spirits. Campari would probably be available but can't confirm, as it's not my preference.

Air France on short international flights also had the necessary.

[L4key]

My biggest annoyance is always the temperature of the wine. Be it LoCo or National. White is never cold enough sadly.

[boardingpass]

L4Key, perhaps you are expecting your white too cold! Although there is much debate, a full bodied white should be served around 15°C (60F) and a crisp white around 10°C (50F). Most people at home drink their white straight out of the fridge (at 4°C) which means you lose most of the flavours.
(And most people drink their red's too warm, at room temperature, while it would be better to aim for around 15-18° depending on the type of course).

[L4key]

BP I bow to your superior knowledge! I promise these were not cold enough though, I do like 'crisper' so that may have an influence.

Interesting the red debate, it's only relatively recently that 'experts' have said it shouldn't be room temp - but thats another thread :)

I'm not an alchy so no-one have a pop but I love settling down on a flight and having a nice G&T. Regarding the issue of how to behave, I've always found that being polite and sober will generally get you a bonus miniature! :ok:

[JUAN TRIPP]

Thanks very much for all the answers folks, even though half way through we did get a bit diverted so to speak.

So it seems that most of the big legacy carriers ( AF,LH,IB etc) still have a reasonable choice of drinks including spirits in their business cabins WITHIN EUROPE. Down the back not sure.

I have to say that at BA we carry a pretty good range of drinks IMO in Club, including champagne, 3 types of beer, and 4 types of wine - 2 white and 2 red. Good news is that we have got some different wines for club starting around Sept. In Euro Traveller, we have a choice of gin, whisky, brandy and vodka, with wine and beer. All free. So it seems not bad.

Thanks for the answers guys.

Cheers JT

[radeng]

JT,

On SH, BA used to have a very nice New Zealand Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc - sadly, they've stopped it. Ask them to bring it back, please.


Besides the drinks, I find BA CC the best - especially after any trips around the US....

[JUAN TRIPP]

Ah yes the wonderful Nobilo SB. First introduced in 1991 and we had it near on 20 years on shorthaul. Have to say in all my years, THE best quarter bottle we've ever had.

If I had the power it would be back. BA changed their wine buying policy in 2009 when the wonderful Peter Nixson, our wine buyer for many years left BA. We now have two different companies buy it on our behalf. For the record the Nobilo was apparently very expensive and thus went to that big cellar in the sky. ( There were other reasons it went). According to my source, we will be getting a SB again in Sept although not from New Zealand I believe. Lets see if my source is correct. ( This will be for Club Europe only I believe)

[Piltdown Man]

He's right about that as far as KLM is concerned. The airline often doesn't seem even to carry sparkling water which is fine, still water also tastes nice, but how does the man who wants a spirit and splash get it?

I don't think you are right. The cheap seats normally get a choice of water, beer, wine, juice (from selection) and the Business Class have the aforementioned plus spirits, liqueurs, and fizz. Depending on the service, most will have the choice of various types of 'pop' including "spa rood" aka sparkling water. All of the above is included in the ticket price. However, on very short flights will these not be available.

PM

[Pom Pax]

My biggest annoyance is always the temperature of the wine. Be it LoCo or National. White is never cold enough sadly.
Even more sad the reds often feel to have come straight from the freezer!

[WHBM]

I have to say that at BA we carry a pretty good range of drinks ...... In Euro Traveller, we have a choice of gin, whisky, brandy and vodka, with wine and beer. All free. So it seems not bad.
Yes, we do notice this and appreciate it. I wonder to what extent this is due to the fact that the BA trunk domestics (Glasgow/Edinburgh etc) have only one class seating, where on most other comparable major business travel routes in Europe there would be a Business Class; it would be a definite downer to the substantial and high-fare regular travellers on these routes to withdraw this, and not to offer whisky at all on the main BA routes to Scotland would lead to much adverse publicity I am sure.

Air France certainly used to have a bizarre combination of spirits and mixers on their flights, and those of their commuter associates, which if you have a spare few minutes you can read about in this somewhat lengthy PPRuNe post of mine from a few years ago

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/251060-london-city-2-a-7.html#post3267434