Qantas Pilots on the way to help EK

[Moosejaw54]

No: 040/11
Date: 08/07/11
FLIGHT STANDING ORDER ADMIN Cancels: Nil
FSO Applicability: ALL AIRCRAFT Page 1
MAR Submitted: N/A
Manual Applicability:
Relevant department/s notified: N/A
Note:
ALL AIRCRAFT
FIRST OFFICERS’ THREE YEAR LEAVE OF ABSENCE –
EMIRATES AIRLINES
Emirates Airlines has approached Flight Operations requesting assistance in the supply of crew. At this stage Emirates is seeking flight crew for First Officer positions only.
Flight Operations will approve Leave of Absence applications for a period of three years from currently qualified First Officers (or Captains willing to operate as First Officers) who are successful with their application to Emirates Airlines, subject to operational requirements.
Terms and conditions for the Leave of Absence period from Qantas will be in accordance with the Long Haul (Flight Crew) Certified Agreement 2005-2006 (EBA 7X) and the Short Haul Workplace Agreement 2007 - 2012.
Employment conditions will be as per the Emirates Airline contract. For further information please refer to Emirates Airline’s pilot recruitment website www.ekpilot.com (http://www.ekpilot.com).
Flight Crew should note that Flight Operations cannot discuss terms and conditions of employment with Emirates Airlines.
Flight Crew who wish to pursue employment may be required to attend interviews with Emirates Airlines representatives in Sydney, to a schedule yet to be advised. Expressions of interest can be lodged on qfflightcrew.com > General > Forms > LWOP Availability Enquiry.
Expressions of interest must be lodged by close of business 25 July 2011.
Further interviews may be required in Dubai for final candidates.
Flight Operations will facilitate annual leave for those applicants who need to attend such interviews. For further information regarding Leave of Absence conditions, Flight Crew should contact
Trevor Voget on (02) 96911899 or email [email protected].

Author: Manager Flight Crew Resourcing SGD: P.Wilson
Checked by: Principal Adviser Flight Crew Operations Chief Pilot

[Harbour Dweller]

Hot off the press to Qantas Pilots

Emirates Airlines has approached QF Flight Operations requesting assistance in the supply of crew. At this stage Emirates is seeking flight crew for First Officer positions only.

QF Flight Operations will approve Leave of Absence applications for a period of three years from currently qualified First Officers (or Captains willing to operate as First Officers) who are successful with their application to Emirates Airlines, subject to operational requirements.

[cyrilroy21]

Qantas giving pilots leave to go fly for Emirates | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/08/qantas-tells-120-pilots-they-can-go-fly-for-emirates/)

[Kapitanleutnant]

Well.... now we all know where they plan to get all the pilots for the 2 aircraft per month coming in for the next 5 years!!

Any of you Aussie guys know if many, any or none will come to EK?

Kap

[Tankengine]

120 is the number I have heard.:E

[Wizofoz]

I don't see the advantage to EK. These guys will have to do a full convesion course anyway, and after the 3 years are up will almost certainly leave.

Are we that short of suitable recruits?

[Harbour Dweller]

With the announcement by the QF board on August 24th there may not be any job to go back to with QF after 3 years.

[kotakota]

Sort of puts Canadas intransigence into perspective does it not ?

[typhoonpilot]

Interesting.

They tried this with Air New Zealand about 4-5 years ago as well. Not many came from there though.



Typhoonpilot

[InnocentBystander]

Only this time Qantas has announced that they will present a major "restructuring" package on August 24 (Read layoffs and transfers to Jetstar subsidiaries in KL, SIN and PVG).

Might make this a little more enticing for the pilots. Go work for Jetstar Shanghai or Emirates...

Qantas giving pilots leave to go fly for Emirates | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/08/qantas-tells-120-pilots-they-can-go-fly-for-emirates/)

[Boeing 777-300ER]

My previous company performed the same exercise a few years back. Lots of scaremongering to make people leave and seek job 'security'. They took unpaid leave to join EK,EY, QR or took short term contracts. I was part of the latter group. Although it was a great experience, life sucks staying away from the family for a long period of time.

Many came back much to the company's relieve as we were needed back sooner rather than later.

People should do their homework well.

[BigGeordie]

For as long as I can remember it was an absolute and non-negotiable requirement that to work for Emirates you had to resign from your previous company. Are we really now that desperate?

I can see the advantages for both Qantas pilots and Emirates management but what would happen in three years if most of them want to go back to Qantas? Surely that would leave an even bigger hole in the recruitment numbers?

[Fozzy74]

I understand this is generating some serious emotion among both groups given what is written in the Australian forum.

What I have found however is that at times the most vocal are not always representative of the majority. Hence I would like to hopefully get a better impression.

My situation is that I have almost 10 years in QF, and am one of the most junior F/O's in line for the bullet should the upcoming restructure go as rumoured. At best I will be demoted back to S/O, or offered really pathetic terms and conditions in the new Asian franchise.

Having been through one airline going bust 10 years ago, I have being doing my research carefully and am on the verge of applying to EK through normal channels on August 24 when the information becomes available. Each to their own and I can tell you there will be a lot of window shoppers from QF ranks, but not actually many who will come should they be accepted. For most the ties here are too great, and family life will prevent most. Many are contemplating and planning lives away from aviation.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that I (and my family) could enjoy ourselves over there, and you won't be stuck with some bitter and twisted tosser who is going to bitch and complain about what happened back home. Things happen and life goes on. Make the most of what is in front of you, look forward and not back. Any QF people who would be prepared to make the big move under this deal will be doing it because they want to, not because they have no other option such as may be the case in 2 months from now. Hopefully for you that would mean you get motivated and enthusiastic people who want to be there, not ones who are forced to.

Then again, it is concerning reading some of the posts in the other forum about how we are being seen as eroding conditions. If that is the general feel of the majority, then I will not be a part of it. If it is just a few who are vocal, but not representative of the wider group, then I would appreciate any input and advice.

For all the stereotypes that surround QF pilots, yes, there are complete fools in our ranks who have ego's bigger than you can imagine. Like any company, there is a small percentage of people who fit this bill, and in times gone by QF has had possibly more than its share.

However, there is a new generation of people in QF who are down to earth, enjoy life, are hard working, and want to make the most of it. We are not all negative, many just roll with the dice. However, we don't want to cut anyone else's grass, and that is where my hesitation in this deal is. The old days in QF are over, and with them have died a lot of the egotistical difficult people.

If you want people who want to be there, who will enjoy their time, understand exactly what they are getting themselves into, and who would hopefully be a pleasure to fly with, then encourage us. Otherwise, hopefully you don't get flooded with applicants come late August who don't really want to be there, but feel no other option. I would rather see those people stay behind.

Will I come back after 3 years? Who knows. I grew up in an expat life and loved it, and quality of life is what you make of it. My wife will probably be the biggest influence. Suffice to say it takes 7 years to realise the benefits over there as a minimum, be it provident fund and command. Aviation will be a different beast worldwide in the next 3 to 7 years, it has certainly changed in my last 16 years of flying. You adapt and take some risks with your career move, and accept what you have done and move forward. My personal hope would be to enjoy it (knowing the negatives) and stay for the longer term. But I cannot script the future.

Any advice is appreciated. I would guess that out of maybe 400 or so eligible F/O's in QF, you will see maybe 25 or so actually go the full distance. Just a guess.

[Silky]

Another question is how many will actually get through the assessments, both sim and interview....they do pick up on attitude! :zzz:Also has been proven that some guys from big unionized companies don't fare as well in the sim skills test even with time on similar type.....strange but true!:ugh:
(not intended as a swipe at anyone, just reported observations)

[donpizmeov]

LR3
QF ain't VB or pornstar.
QF use to be a career airline. Once there you did your time, moved through the ranks then retired. Not a bad thing at all. Why would you look at leaving that when you don't have to? Settle the family where you all want to live, go to work a few times per month, sign me up!! So if Fozzy or anyone else in QF was thinking of leaving that to join the sandpit I would question their state of mind. Unfortunately mainline is being raped, and the QF career path seems to no longer exist. Hence now it seems a sensible move to look elsewhere.

Don't worry silky, if you could slip through the EK recruiting process I am sure a few QF lads will to.

Good luck to you Fozzy. I hope things work out for you.

The Don

[CAYNINE]

Check your Personal Messages

[Fozzy74]

LR3,

It has taken me and many 10 years to realise that investing in seniority in this company is a waste of time and effort. I started looking seriously for alternative employment in the last month or so. It takes a lot to bring you to that when you have a mortgage and family. Things are not good here as the company is hell bent on turning itself into a nasty LCC who treats every employee with contempt. I ain't going to spend the rest of my life complaining about it, I am going to move on. Several others have also made that decision.

I can understand your point entirely and cannot disagree with you. If the majority of people think we should take the moral high ground and resign, then so be it. That is what I would like to know. If I am over there, I want to work with, not against, people I fly with. I do not want to be seen as an outcast. If there is a stigma against QF people on LWOP, fair enough.

Hopefully your recruitment department sorts the weeds out, I am sure they will, but there are always a few who slip through. In 2 months, there will be a lot applying as they have no other options after being turfed, and my point is that they may be the bitter and twisted ones, but who knows.

All this came out on Friday night over here just as all the staff left the office for the weekend, so the details are still not clear as to what it actually involves. For some of us who have taken the decision to try and obtain employment with EK, this is hard to refuse. You may get some however who would not have resigned now looking, and who will take this up. I doubt they will all come back however, some would stay on.

For what it is worth, the package is worth more than most F/O's take home over here with our taxation and minimum hours.

Anyhow, lots to still come out in the wash so time will tell.

[fatbus]

Fozzy good luck to you with the process, you have the right attitude.

[Oakape]

Fozzy74, I wouldn't be in a hurry to burn your bridges, no matter how bad QF is. I also wouldn't give up the opportunity for a possible redundancy payout either. With this business going the way it is, everyone needs all the cash they can get, when they can get it. You just don't know when you will need it.

I think that almost all of the pilots here would be more than happy to fly with you if you were on LWOP. I know a few of the ANZ guys that were here on LWOP & they had no problems that I ever heard of. And it would be nice to have an out if things don't go as expected over here. I'm sure that most here would have loved to have been in that situation when they joined, but normally EK require confirmation of resignation before they will hire you.

The fact that some of the ANZ guys (all of the ones I know) have returned home is an indication that this place isn't for everyone. The 3.5 years you will need to do, in order to pay off the bond, will give you ample of time for you & the family to decide if you all want to be here in the longer term & if that is the case, you can resign then & stay on (or take a redundancy package if available).

You can't please everyone & that is particularly relevant in this business. So, take in to account people's feelings, but remember that everyone has a unique situation & the greatest responsibilty is to yourself & your family, so you have to do what's right for you & them, above all else.

People here have been hoping in the last few years that the pilot shortage will finally bite & force EK to improve the package, because it isn't what it was a number of years ago. Nothing significant has happened to date, but most keep hoping an improvement is just around the corner. However, EK is pretty skilled at the delicate balance between the package & required pilot numbers, so it is pretty much a case of :ugh:. It's hard to say if pilots on LWOP from QF will make a difference, but I tend to think not.

All the best with your decision.

[donpizmeov]

I bet some management type will see this as a benefit to a pilot and will squash it. Or am I just a pessimist?

[kingpost]

Fozzy

Very mature outlook, take the previous posts advice - wait until the retrenchments start, EK will be looking for crew for years to come.

With your outlook, you'll walk in!

Good luck

[kotakota]

This is almost 89ish , sorry to hear about what is happening to you guys , but PLEASE do not go overseas with the attitude of the Disputers who were desperately unhappy / disullisioned / ostrich etc , and created a lot of strife wherever they worked . You HAVE to deal with the cards dealt to you in this business and decide what is best for you , and even more so , what is best for your loved ones . Take it from me. God speed.

[Silky]

Hey Fozzy,
pls don't take my message as a slight against the Oz boys, in fact mostly a great bunch, my reference being to what you also have referred to, attitude to why and expectation of fair play is often over expected, when things are a bit more challenging than whence they came is when the issues arise!
With your out look you seem to show the right mindset, I too am here over a generation and gave up a good spot in a good spot to come here. While some nights I am not a fan, overall I do still enjoy! But then I live out side of the EK life here and just go to and come from work....:ouch:
Dontpizmeov....rarely add to this scene as I find you and your cohorts boring and totally mindless, but a fair heads up to those coming here in hope is all any can ask for! MINDSETs are obvious from the offset!:D

[CAVnotOK]

Just MY opinion, but I reckon anyone with a family, or not, and faced with an incredibly uncertain future with the current employer would be delusional not to entertain the thought of other opportunities.

The fact that this particular opportunity is not just a try before you buy, but a great insurance policy should things go from bad to worse at QF, then I for one would strongly consider.

On the flip side, the commitment required is a big one. Any respective candidate will be not only committing themselves, but their wife and children to 3 years in both EK and Dubai, something which must be very carefully thought out.

I believe some of the negative sentiments expressed are more a reflection of the frustration of the current EK Pilot group who are relying on a lack of qualified applicants to try and drive the package in the right direction.

Having said that, I for one strongly believe anyone from QF who takes the chance will be warmly welcomed by the guys at EK.

The only factor which looms large is that EK and Dubai are definitely NOT for everyone.

Good luck with a very tough decision.

CAV

[donpizmeov]

Seems I wasn't pessimistic at all. Scheme has now been canceled. :ugh: We can't have these lazy pilots being looked after.

Bring on more road shows. That's gotta work!

the Don

[Tankengine]

EK have apparently contacted QF management today, pulling out of any deal on LWOP.
QF management have suggested crew apply by normal means.:ugh:

Today 94% out of 89% of pilots voted for industrial action against Qantas.

[donpizmeov]

Jungle drums say premature announcement from qf flight ops. Don't think EK give a rats about the vote.

[freddi16]

Hi all why ek don't give a chance for guys that have failed the first interview to have a second chance?
i'm one of those and there are many i've completed all the process the first time included the medical,and my application now is unsuccesfull....:ugh:

[CAVnotOK]

Based on the posts above, are the QF guys still interested in applying to EK now that the LWOP scheme has been pulled?

Good luck to all, and i'd be interested in hearing some viewpoints.

Cheers,
Cav.

[Wings Of Fury]

Recent reports say there was a Qantas Pilot on the now 4 day selection program just 2 weeks ago.