flydubai Kandahar day out

[olster]

Apparently flydubai are arranging charters to Kandahar - hq for Terry Taliban and extremely dangerous. This latest bombshell ( pun intended) has been announced by notice from the much discredited and Walter Mittyesque safety 'manager'. The notice would be a candidate for a comedy award if the subject was not so serious. Highlights of the notice include guidance on - I kid you not - what to do in the event of a rocket attack. Apparently lie down and cover your ears is the best advice. I am reminded of the famous Blackadder sketch when Baldrick asks Blackadder for guidance when stepping upon a mine: " Well, Baldrick, traditionally one hurls oneself 200 feet into the air and scatters four limbs in all directions..." Other gems include the fact that rocket attacks are designed to harass and are not really serious!

Further proof, if proof were needed that there is no, or limited safety culture within flydubai if the personal safety of the crews is treated in such a cavalier fashion. You can be assured that any 'safety assessment' will be a whitewash to fit the commercial case (even that makes no sense).

Any aspirant flydubai pilot, many other issues notwithstanding, may care to carefully consider their decision to work for a company that imposes operations into a war zone. Aside from the personal safety aspect there are other issues - not addressed officially - whereby personal insurance etc could be negated.

Please be guided accordingly/ cheers.

[BurDubaiBob]

olster - spot on!

Here are some actual quotes, cut & paste, from flydubai's memo to staff about ops into Kandahar:
The distance from the city, roaming patrols of over 200 soldiers, the wide open space around the airport, a 24 hour rocket attack detection radar, and minefields provide additional perimeter security.

Although rocket attacks within Kandahar airfield are extremely rare, with the risk of injury from such rocket attacks being equally as remote, all companies operating in and out of Kandahar airfield have been asked to communicate the “Rocket Alert Response Procedure” in line with their standard Safety and Security procedures. This procedure consists of the following:


On hearing an audible siren, drop to the floor in the “duck and dive” maneuver. Hit the floor face down and cover the eyes.
Once the first rocket detonates and when you feel safe to do so, make your way to the nearest bunker.
To protect against such attacks, the airfield has specially designed blast walls which are located around the entire airfield.



Most of the attacks are meant more to harass than anything else. The base defenses are state‐of‐the art; the rockets aren't. When the attack is over the siren sounds again. "All clear, All clear”


It has also been stated that "The passengers carried are civilians rather than servicemen"…. not that the Taliban will give a ****, given that one 'Infidel' looks much like another in the eyes & RPG/SAM/MANPAD gunsights of Terry Taliban!

And flydubai still continues to preach "The safety of our crews is our #1 priority". Well, yet again, we can see what a crock of **** that really is!


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/talibanMS2010_468x653.jpg

[dubaigong]

Don't worry guys,

Remember , each time questions are asked to the chief pilot's meetings about safety issue like fatigue related with the 4 sectors at night or flying to Kabul , Kandahar etc...

The answer is always the same " IT IS LEGAL "

What can you say to that ? But what annoys me the most is that when there were guys who have been flying there and the chief pilot asked them about their experience , NONE of them did say that they think it was dangerous !!!

[ex-XL]

Wrt to the advice to 'cover the eyes', is that so you don't have to witness your colleagues been blown to pieces ?!

dubaigong - Look at the following descriptions:


Do you often feel used by the person?
Have you often felt that he doesn't care about you?
Does he lie and deceive you?
Does he tend to make contradictory statements?
Does he tend to take from you and not give back much?
Does he often appeal to pity and / or seem to try to make you feel sorry for him?
Does he try to make you feel guilty?
Do you sometimes feel he is taking advantage of your good nature?
Does he seem easily bored and need constant stimulation?
Does he use a lot of flattery and / or does he interact with you in a way that makes you feel flattered even if he says nothing overtly complimentary?
Does he make you feel worried and / or does he do it obviously or more cleverly and sneakily?
Does he give you the impression you owe him?
Does he chronically fail to take responsibility for harming others and / or does he blame everyone and everything but himself?

If these descriptions sound familiar, you are probably talking about someone - go figure?! - who can be classified as a Sociopath (http://www.youmeworks.com/sociopaths.html)

[Voodoo 3]

I am reminded of the famous Blackadder sketch when Baldrick asks Blackadder for guidance when stepping upon a mine: " Well, Baldrick, traditionally one hurls oneself 200 feet into the air and scatters four limbs in all directions..."


Olster, Blackadder was actually addressing Lieutenant George whilst atop No Man's land in that scene, even though bird brain Balders was there too.

However whilst that isn't so important, the contents of the breifing received actually is. As mentioned by BDB how ludicrous is it to receive infomation about what to do in a rocket attack and then declare that safety of the crew is the number one priority.

The brief looks to be something that our heroes in the military forces might receive, you know the ones who fly aircraft equipped with chaff, flares, able to fly evasive manoeuvres etc. Not sure we checked that options box.......

[Mike Roweburst]

Brilliant Mr Olster!!!! Your usual wit and repartee appreciated by all. FYI, Flydubai just received certificate of all weather operations competency for Landings- CAT2 DH100 - RVR300m and Take Off -125m just what one needs after your 4th night in a row returning from Chittagong/Kathmandu/Khartoum/4-sector "red-eye" etc!

BUT IT IS LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!

[Flat Cap]

Just sooooo thrilled at the thought of Kandahar I thought I would do some research, rather wish I hadn't.

Afghan Journal | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters.com (http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2010/07/17/taliban-rocket-attacks-rise-at-kandahar-airbase/) :eek:

However Capt. D Spaceman say all is safe, and he would rather fly in there than Kabul as the ground forces can control the area under the approach path. So that's nice.

End of May saw a UN helicopter destroyed in a rocket attack and the main road into town is the highest danger category on the UN rating categories. To only be travelled in armored cars. So that's nice too.

Safety culture my arse. :*

F-C.

[giggedy]

What shower of Sh**e

This place is clearly dangerous. FZ are treating the crews with contempt.
My Pals at FZ are now looking eleswhere for work. :rolleyes:

[macca32springer]

This is from the FCO website.

Safety and Security - Local Travel - Air Travel
Airlines operating to the EU are required to meet the safety standards established by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The EU Aviation Security Committee (ASC) blacklisted all Afghan airlines flying to the EU on 23 November 2010 due to the poor record of its civil aviation oversight system. Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) employees in Afghanistan have been advised not to travel on airlines blacklisted by the EU ASC.

Some other airlines that operate in and out of Afghanistan may not meet international safety standards.

Safety and Security - Local Travel - Transiting UAE
Flying to Dubai and then transferring is the most common route into Afghanistan. It is illegal to transit the United Arab Emirates carrying unlicensed personal protection equipment. This includes, but is not limited to, body armour (including ballistic vests), weapon holsters and handcuffs. Other specialist technical equipment such as satellite phones, listening and recording devices, powerful cameras and binoculars, while freely available in the UK, may also require licenses. Persons found carrying any such items without a license may be subject to conviction resulting in imprisonment and substantial monetary fines in accordance with Emirati law.

Just who are we flying to Kandahar? The brief says non military.... therefore it must be civilian security staff, i.e. Ex military.........

It certainly isn’t a holiday destination is it..:=

[temporarily unsure]

The Brits at FDB might wish to read this:

Afghanistan travel advice (http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/afghanistan)

To summarise:
Southern Afghanistan:


We advise against all travel to Helmand, Kandahar, Nimroz, Uruzgan and Zabul

Compare this with:

Kabul:

We advise against all but essential travel to Kabul.

Accepting these duties will clearly require some careful consideration!

[Sciolistes]

Well, they're not going to be botanists, that's for sure :\

[Brian Cohen]

If you can stay away from Alfukistand!

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Big Softies....

[BDD]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I would check your life insurance policy.
You might not be covered in a war zone.

[dubaigong]

According to the last memo sent to us and the meeting organized by the management this afternoon , there is no problem at all with our insurance as it covers also war zone...
We should not be worried at all as the company will never send the aircraft if it was not safe to do so... they said...
And after talking to pilots who have been there with previous company , our chief pilot told us that these pilots have confirmed that there was nothing to worry about....

Let's see...

[doubletap]

The point that seems to be conveniently glossed over is that this is a thinly disguised contract for the military. We are not taking a bunch of local goat herders on holiday, this is a specific charter for military support staff. Now lets all hope that GAG has managed to get the powers that be to pay the locals to leave us alone as once the word gets around, the local lads with their MANPADS may be taking more than a passing interest in us. It's not the risk during the turn around, it's the first & last 5000ft operating into & out of the place that is more of a concern. We have to be lucky every time we go in to KDH, Terry & co only have to be lucky once. Stick a BOZ pod on the jet, pay me extra for putting my nuts on the block & I might, just might consider it. Make it obligatory (unless of course you're a scandic A scaler :E), then it's toodle pip from me.

[BurDubaiBob]

The closing paragraph of the CP's recent 'Kandahar Update' said:“It was a pleasure and a humbling experience to serve these people and give them a pleasant experience after what they have been through. They had waited two hours before boarding (DFS policy) and it was a joy to see their pleasure when we gave them the cold towels. They were tired and happy. Honestly it was an honor to serve them. I think we owe them this.”Might I just point out that these Kandahar 'contractors' have chosen to go and work in a war zone and, no doubt, reap the rewards (financial) of working in such a dangerous environment.

So why should an aircrew (who've been given no choice about operating in to / out of that same war zone and who are paid no extra for doing so) find it "humbling" and / or an "honor" and / or why just should an aircrew "owe" such people anything ?!!

Wasn't it Samuel Johnson who once said, "Patriotism: The last refuge of the scoundrel" ?!!

:ugh:

[Sciolistes]

I would like to know how many aircraft operate in and out of Khandahar each day?

[Charlie_Fox]

How many civilian movements, you mean? Not many. We're there once a week with a large cargo aircraft. I don't see many other civil movements. Plenty of F16s, UAVs, C130s etc. I can't say I feel 100% comfortable flying into Kandahar but it's not so bad that I want to quit my job to avoid it. Most companies that fly there issue instructions similar to those quoted above. They're probably designed to protect the company's ass, not yours, in case something goes wrong. An example: "On arrival in parking, all crews will determine the location of hardened, semi-hardened or improvised protective shelter nearest to the aircraft's parking stand" etc etc. To go to Kandahar or not - the choice is yours.

[StuckinFZ]

If it was MY choice i would not go. Unfortunately it is not.

[Guided accordingly]

We all have the choice, unfortunately its not so easy having committed to living in Dubai. Nothing prepares you for hidden expense of setting up here. When that is finally accepted and paid off, Flydubai have the audacity to come up with this crap ! Nice move guys, I'm outta here asap !:ugh:

I would not go to Afghanistan given the choice. :suspect:

Give the flights to the volunteers for a few hundred extra DHS ! :D

[doubletap]

ahhhh yes, I can see it now....

"..... following on from our recent success with our charters into KDH, we are pleased to announce that we will be expanding further into the DFS network with flights into OAI, MZR etc etc...." :ok:

[Brian Cohen]

How many civilian movements, you mean? Not many. We're there once a week with a large cargo aircraft. I don't see many other civil movements. Plenty of F16s, UAVs, C130s etc.
... and it's a very good indication of how high is the risk!

I can't say I feel 100% comfortable flying into Kandahar
... and you shouldn't unless you airplane has an RWR with chaff and flares dispenser!And even with those toys ... Everybody know the level of corruption over there and only US has the clear picture of threats/manpads! (4 eyes nations only ... UAE isn't in that circle)
How much money your life cost? How much money you family think your life is worthy ... get a very good life insurance ... at least someone would be really happy!
Try to get access to ISAF intelligence open sources ...

[EladElap]

I don't see many other civil movements.

There are actually quite a few. Kamair fly in there a few times a day, as do Ariana. Iran Aseman also come in there a few times a week in their 727. That's the scheduled civvy side of things.

The biggest issue is actually going to be finding sufficient space on Juliet Ramp, which is adjacent to the terminal building, and the only civilian apron. It's congested enough as it is, and often the larger jets are left waiting on a taxi way, while the preceding aircraft is waiting for start.

Enjoy the incessant jamming , sometimes enough to stop all movements for over an hour. Luckily the yank ATC's are pretty jacked when it comes to slotting in traffic and keeping the flow of traffic moving. You may want to keep your TCAS set to it's lowest range when going in there though...:E:E