CV recommendations

[Backwards PLT]

Leading on from the PVR threads, can anyone pass on tips/recommendations for producing professional CVs - both general tips and recommendations of specific CV services would be great.

Personally I am looking from the viewpoint of pilot to industry (not the airlines), but feel free to post tips for people in other situations.

Thanks

[airborne_artist]

Feel free to PM me. I've spent 25 years reading CVs as a head-hunter.

[SOSL]

My experience tells me that there is no perfect CV; it depends on what the job is and who will be reading the CV. You should be totally honest but don't be afraid to boast. emphasize your relevant skills and try to satisfy the essential requirements. Good luck

[Pontius Navigator]

Omit the words "I" and "responsible". I was responsible for landing the aircraft safely may have been true but while you were responsible did you actually land the aircraft safely?

"Landed aircraft safely" says it all.

As SOSL said, try and meet the essential requirements. There may be a better candiate that can meet all the essential requirements but then again there may not.

Look around the job spec and see if you have skills that might be useful but have been overlooked in the job spec - security - staff studies - H&S - project management (OIC Underwater Basket Weaving)* - and so on.

* look at what you have done and change it to civvy speak.

[racedo]

Name of Company / Unit(s) - time in it
Role(s) you have done
List of achievements for each role but don't overdo it ...............saving world from Commies / USanians will be taken as read if its RAF ;) so be a bit more specific / creative

CV gets read (in reality scanned) for 10-15 seconds approx so you want to get put into pile for a re read over 2 minutes.

AA as a headshrinker for 25 years you in rough agreement ?

[Backwards PLT]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Would it be reasonable to assume that puting something like "SO2 J3 PJHQ", even to a defence-centric industry would be meaningless drivel?

[Airborne Aircrew]

When I'm hiring the cover letter is as important as the CV if not more so. I read it first you see. Screw up there and I don't even read the CV. Believe it or not I once read one where the sender spelled his name wrong - true... At the top it was spelled one way and in the signature block it was spelled another.

The letter should echo back the key words in any advert you are responding to and each letter should be tailored to the job and the company. Take a look on the internet at the company's web site and see what you can find that is sensible for use in the letter without seeming to be a stalker. After that, keep the CV as short, sharp and to the point as you can.

[airborne_artist]

Would it be reasonable to assume that puting something like "SO2 J3 PJHQ", even to a defence-centric industry would be meaningless drivel? Yes. Not all who work in the defence industry understand all the acronyms, and unless that's all you are prepared to work in, then you need to put it in real English.

My experience suggests that you may get paid better and advance faster outside the defence industry anyway. I had a client, a former Chief Petty Officer, who within three years of leaving the Dark Blue was already earning the same as a Captain RN. He worked for Ericsson, the telecoms firm :D

[Rigga]

As said earlier, there is no single good CV.

Adverts.

If you can do 50% of the items in any advert - apply for it. You may be the closest to the mark.

Responding to an advert:

Read the advert and write your covering letter by itemising the aspects that you can do with your qualifications and/or achievements.

Do the same with your CV by promoting the relevant Q's and emphasising the A's

You must sell yourself - there no-one else to do it.

Be bold and "Brag" - but don't ever lie (I've sacked two liars so far)

Don't put miltary jargon or abbeviations in it (unless it part of the job)
Don't put that you've passed your fitness test (unless its part of the job)
You don't need to 'admit' to anything in your CV (believe me, some do)
It doesnt matter what you did on Det in Wherever.
You don't need to say what weapons you've used (believe me, some do)

...and good luck

[Pontius Navigator]

To echo AA, we had a WO MT apply for a job [WTF is a WO MT :)]. The job was not WO MT but with Serco on an RAF Unit. His app listed his qualifications: Q-this, Q-that, Fnnnn etc etc.

The manager came to me in confusion - wtf - answer fiik.

I do surveys and one thing is to select my job/skill level. Middle Management covers responsibility for up to 25 employees, principal officer in the civil service and so on.

You can therefore consider SO2 J3 as Middle Management etc etc.

All the time ask yourself would any ordinary person know what I have written.

[dallas]

Specifics apart, you would be amazed by the number of covering letters or CV formats that just look untidy, rushed and get interpreted as just one in a mail shot. Spelling mistakes in either lose points with me straight away, as do vague sentences about unclear achievements. I've also seen:

- Overly padded-out detail about superfluous activities which just makes the reader think there is a lack of substance. I suggested to a mate that he needed to rearrange the detail on his CV so his latest fairly irrelevent job was a sideline to his otherwise solid background.

- An amazing number mis-spell Jeppesen despite being 'experts'.

- The military CVs tend to be either unclear what the subject actually did, or too specific with unit details etc. Something midway would be welcome, with civilian equivalents/comparisons where suitable.

---------------------------------------------------------

If you make interview try and be dynamic and show some personality, research the company as best as you can and if you get a preview of the workplace for the most part keep gob shut and ears open!

Only other tip I found useful was to get a copy of everyone and anyone's CV and decide what you like/dislike about theirs, using good ideas on your own!

[racedo]

Good tip with a CV is to hand it to someone who knows nothing about you or your experience and they should be able to tell you what you have done..................if they can't then rewrite until they can.

Another one is to have a number of CV's versions with subtle changes depending on the role you are targeting.

[Two's in]

Also remember that the CV only gets you an interview. The more you can do to network and use contacts to get an interview the less critical the CV becomes.

Also beware of regurgitating the same CV for different job applications. The key is to make sure you answer as many lines of requirements in the specific job ad you can, so you will need to rehash the CV to cover the relevant ones for that job.

[idle stop]

Get all the principal info on one side of A4.
Put any detail in Appendix(-ices). If the reader is interested enough in what's on page 1 he/she may go on to look at the rest.
I agree, bad spelling and grammar are an instant turn-off....I've seen too many of these.
Surprising how many covering letters don't even spell the name of the addressee company/person correctly. PPPPP.
Check and proof what you have written very carefully: proof, then take a break, and come back to it with a fresh mind.

[L J R]

I found that in addition to examples on the Web, Colleagues, etc, the CV module on Resettlement was one of the highlights of the 2-3 day Resettlement Seminar.

[Pontius Navigator]

Get all the principal info on one side of A4 . . .
If the reader is interested enough in what's on page 1 he/she may go on to look at the rest.

The bottom line on one CV read:

rowed single-handedly across

and the next page said

the Serpentine.

She got the interview.

[thefodfather]

If you have to give an e-mail address then make sure that it's a sensible one, I once had an applicant with a an address that started with iamat**t@, guess how much of that CV got read.

Having recently left the service for civvy street, if you're aiming for industry I found the key is to make sure you don't use a generic CV but tailor it specifically for every job, making sure that you provide information on how you meet the criteria.

Hope it goes well.

[Wokkafans]

Following om from all the sensible advice given above, if you use any of the social networking sites such as FaceBook etc do check that any content puts you in a good light. Most larger employers will Google you and any content that casts doubt on your character can be a deciding factor in whether you get an interview or your application goes straight in the bin. No need to say avoid anything involving excessive drinking and sha**ging unless you are after a career in the porn industry :E

Good luck:ok:

[light_my_spey]

The first page of your CV will give you no more than 20 seconds to sell yourself so write a strong opening profile and highlight your key strengths early on, make them want to continue reading into the next page.

Everyone wants to say they invented the wheel but as tempting as it may be, DO NOT `fluff up` your CV with something you cannot 100% substantiate.

The employer will spot it and make you sweat like a fat bird in a bin bag:E

Good luck!

[herkman]

One thing I have found down here, is that servicemen are treated with a little more respect that someone who walks in off the street.

When I left the Australian Air Force I held several top management positions and had a standing instruction with HR to send me the servicemen first for interview.

The reason being is that I had learnt to tell who were the real players. Their approach to me, the new postion and how they dressed and bearing quickly showed out.

I was not the only manager who learnt that most servicemen can do the job well, have commitment to the task in hand and are trained to plan.

The CV will only maybe get yourself in the door, you have to quickly creat an interest in you above the rest of the applicants. Make yourself be interesting, No one likes changing people in jobs and if you can show that you will quickly take on the task, well you are in.

You need to do some work on the background of the interviewer, so that you can make your presentation interesting. Pointless talking about subjects that he or she has no knowledge or interest in, find the common ground, it is not hard to do and will pay your efforts well.

All the best

Col

[critter sized]

I work in the recruitment industry following some 20 years in light blue and would echo much of the sage advice given.

The first hurdle for any applicant is getting your CV to 'register' with the recruitment agency/consultant. Recognising that there are likely to be a significant number of applicants for every position advertised it is an essential that your covering note/email identifies clearly some relevancy to the role - indeed that should be echoed in any opening statement on your CV.

Get someone else to critique your CV. Family/friends are fine but may not be as harsh as they should be. As already mentioned, the number of painfully obvious mistakes that are made in the presentation of CVs is frightening.

When applying for roles always try to make your CV bespoke - we have many generic skills; however, potential employers will normally expect to see a CV that demonstrates specific qualities. It sounds obvious but the detail should always be in any job description - if it is not then ring the recruiter/employer direct.

As a rule, we will always respond to applicants who have missed the mark with the presentation of their CV and I am happy to help out should you wish to PM me.

At present the employment market is reasonably bouyant and there is an appetitie amongst employers for engaging ex-military personnel. The very best of luck to those making a move in the near future.

Regards

Critter

[Wander00]

Was involved in the resettlement/career change business in 1993/5 after the big draw down then (Remember that awful "Access to Excellence" cr@p - I watch the video when I feel depressed!). Spent a lot of time convincing people

a. Whilst a good CV helped, a lot of luck was involved
b. A CV was not a list of postings during which the subject managed to avoid being court martialled.
c. No one out there now has service experiene, many recruiters not even their granfddads were in the services, so write in a language people with NO service experience will understand, and be prepoared for people still to judge service leavers by "Dad's Army", "Aint Half Hot Mum" and "Get Some In".
d. In 1994-5 I pointed out that to be able to pay the candidate £20k pa, he/she needed to generate/maintain turnover of about £250k - if you want £40k now it has to be in the £500k-£750k area. You have to demonstrate to the business that you can make a significant contribution. Think about it!

GOOD LUCK

[Take That]

Get in touch with the Officers' Association, specialists at helping somebody like you. You might have to queue though, they're rather busy at the moment!

[NutLoose]

The bottom line on one CV read:

rowed single-handedly across

and the next page said

the Serpentine.

She got the interview.

I had one under hobbies put "Mandatory Gardening"..

Made me chuckle.

[howiehowie93]

I've been out since December 2000 and now work in Oil & Gas Industrial Gas Turbines. I found that nothing much in RAF Career counted to anything in Civvie street. Except for the very specialist things, I was a Sootie and carried out many Borescope inspections which at the time was a sparse skill outside. (Well it got me a job anyway).

The CV writing advice I received during the Resettlement Course I did stood me in good stead and a lady called Jean at Cottesmore gave me a template which I still use today and only last week was generating interest and phone calls.

The Career History Section of my CV has the last line of:

" Royal Air Force September 1978 to December 2000"

And people are more interested in the things in the paragraphs above that.

regards

HH93

[zerva]

2 things not to mention

1. Your hair colour

2. The swing wing interceptor

All the best :ok:

[Hugh FW]

Any of you sterling chaps (Howie?) good enough to post some example formats for the rest of us who may need some assistance, soon?

HFW

[ghostnav]

My recommendation would be get a good book on CV production - major online book stores will show you the most popular. Then get it vetted by a professional.

[SOSL]

Much good advice above, the most important being to get as much help as you can - don't just sweat it out on your own - there is a lot of wisdom out there which you can usually tap into for the price of a pint or two. If your CV works it will get you an interview; as mine did when I applied for my first job after retiring from the RAF. The rest of this post doesn't include advice just shared experience.

The position was advertised as "Project Manager", it was based in a large NHS hospital within walking distance of my home and when I read the job description I thought "I could eat that". The pay wasn't much but I didn't need much and I felt it would be a really pleasant "quality of life" job to take me into my dotage.

So I went bxlls out to prepare for the interview - I even produced 3 pamphlets (The interview boards in the NHS usually include a clinical person, an HR person and a union rep) with professional graphics showing how I would approach the project. I handed these to the interviewers and they seemed impressed, we talked at length and it seemed to go swimmingly.

The next day I received an e-mail informing me I hadn't got the job and (as usual) thanking me for attending the interview. I was mildly surprised and so I called the HR director (one small bit of advice: if you get turned down - ask why) and asked why I hadn't been selected. She replied "Mr SOSL we were all very impressed with your interview but we felt that you would become bored with the job within 6 months and you would probably resign, which would involve us in a another recruitment process with the associated costs.

They didn't want a project manager; they wanted a "policeman" to make sure things were being done but I hadn't NB'd that.

The lesson is - try to find out exactly what the employer wants, not just what they say they want. Bit of an unanswerable question really!

Since then I have worked for myself - easier to get through the interviews!

[racedo]

Don't oversell yourself but also don't undersell yourself.

Friend got caught out once in the late 1990's with a "How do you cope with change" question after 25 years in the services from 16-17, he imploded.

Initially view was he didn't as nothing really changed when he in HMGs employee.

It was funny sitting down and reminding him of what i could remember of mid 70's and services collecting bins or driving fire engines, cold war enemies, Falklands war, end of Cold war, Northern Ireland, Gulf war, exercises in NATO in with former enemies.........then suggesting that if he thought that nothing had changed from day he went in to day he left.

He wasn't involved in all of them and accepted no blame for starting any of them apart from what he claims a few fights while tired and emotional........suggested not a good idea to talk to an employer about that element.

Bluntly told him that anybody in the services for that length of time or even part of it has seen huge organisational change as well as change of masters when elections occur.

Accordingly he should be stating that change was a normal state of affairs giving examples over either short, medium or long term.

Funnily enough this he has used on a number of occasions since and gets credit for it plus number of jobs.

[dallas]

If you have to give an e-mail address then make sure that it's a sensible one, I once had an applicant with a an address that started with iamat**t@, guess how much of that CV got read
Absolutely agree. I've been put off by a few stupid e-mail addresses.

[Wander00]

And whilst we are talking e-mail and things, remember recruiters read social networking sites, so if you are after a job, no pics on facebook of you legless in the Hgh Street!

[critter sized]

A good point made above. One of the best mediums for job advertising at the moment is Linked In. Regardless of your thoughts on the site there are a wealth of opportunities posted on a daily basis - indeed, many recruiters (us included) find that the very best candidates come from this source. You will also find that many employers will look to recruit direct through Linked In. There are some very specific groups that directly target the ex-military community.

For those about to make the plunge or for others who are loooking to move onto pastures new, I would wholeheartedly recommend Linked In. It has the added advantage of being free.

[airborne_artist]

In my head-hunting days I used LinkedIn all the time, so it's well worth getting up and running and making full use of it. Join the ex-forces groups so you can be found by recruiters, and make sure you use civvy words instead of/as well as the military terms.

You can LinkedIn pro-actively too, to find people who've made the transition. Ping them a message asking if you can buy them a beer and have a chat. Most won't bite, and it may give you an inside track on jobs coming up in their new employer. If Bloggs has already made a good impression then a friend/contact of Bloggs will be seen in a more positive light, and get you an interview. The rest is often quite easy.