RAF Puma down nr Andover

[helihub]

from BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14034511)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53876000/jpg/_53876910_crash006.jpg

A military helicopter has crashed near an industrial estate in Hampshire, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said.

The Puma helicopter is understood to have come down near Andover.

There are not thought to be any serious injuries and no buildings or vehicles were involved in the incident, an MoD spokesman said.

He added: "We are aware of an incident. An investigation is under way and more details will be released when appropriate."

[oldjetbox]

Yet another Puma falling out of the sky. These must be way up there in terms of failures per flying time. Or is it just that they get more publicity being large/military?

[ShyTorque]

They suffer no more than any other front line helicopter....well, any other forty year old ones, anyway ;)

[turboshaft]

One source now reporting the incident as a birdstrike: Miraculous escape for crew as military helicopter crashes in farmer's field (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011479/Miraculous-escape-crew-military-helicopter-crashes-field.html#ixzz1RG4YyhX4)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/05/article-2011479-0CE0AB8200000578-944_468x298.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/05/article-2011479-0CE0BBF200000578-713_468x286.jpg

[jellycopter]

With my amateur investigator hat on, the first thing that strikes me about the mail-on-line photos is the lack of 'Wendy House'. I'm surprised something that's the size of a VW Beetle is not visible in the photo when the rest of wreckage is otherwise present.

I lost one myself a few years ago, and was bloody lucky to get away with it. I wonder if the Puma fleet will be relearning lessons about securing the wendy house that it first learned 40 years ago.

JJ

[Pandalet]

For the unenlightened among us, what is a wendy house, in relation to military pumas?

[T140V]

The 'Wendy House' is a large sliding cowling which covers the area behind the engine doors. It can be slid to the rear to allow access for maintenance. There have been incidents in the past where the sliding cowling has become detached in flight, causing damage to main and tail rotor blades. It should be secured to the engine doors by a locking device, which would, if fitted, prevent the cowling from sliding to the rear. The cowling may, of course, have become detached in the crash, rather than being the cause of it.

[212man]

I'm guessing from looking at the bit that is missing in the photo, that it's what we would call a 'Dog House,' or is that unfamiliar too?

[T140V]

I think that Wendy House, Dog House, Dog Kennel etc are all interchangable terms for large cowlings. I have heard all three terms, plus others, used on the various helicopters I have experience of.

[212man]

Yes, and I'm sorry to have posted the same answer after you but you must have posted while I was typing!

Bristow had an AS332L lose it's Doghouse in the late 80s soon after departure from Aberdeen. The crew got a 'COWL OPEN' warning light and then found they'd lost their number 2 VHF radio, so returned back. I think there were a lot of stunned expressions as they taxied in :uhoh:

The loss of radio was due the antenna departing with the cowling!

[Fareastdriver]

By clever design and forward thinking Aerospatial, the original designers of the Puma, arranged it so that if the doghouse came off the rotor blades would push it down the port side of the boom and under the stabiliser. This ensured that it would not interfere with the tail rotor.

At least, that's what happened sometimes.

[Freddie838]

I don't know when it became the Wendy House, in my day it was known as the Beetle Back cowling. Glad everyone is safe and well.

[oldbeefer]

Ah, but ask Neil M who lost his at 200ft and it took out the tail rotor. Put it down in repairable condition and was promptly Court Marshalled!

[oldbeefer]

'Cos the pilots on 33 when the Puma came into RAF service were girls!

[Fareastdriver]

'Cos the pilots on 33 when the Puma came into RAF service were girls!

At least they did not have to have another pilot to hold their hand like those on 230 Sqn.

[Rigga]

...with my investigator's head on... I detect evidence of some stress. And I'm not sure if I should be able to see the blue bits.

Oh! and it's lying down.

[Fareastdriver]

Without trying to draw any conclusions at all, because I am usually 180 out, there seems to be a remarkable lack of a doghouse in the crash site. In my experience the ones that have broken off on crashing have left the runners on the rails.
Just a thought but it will all come out in the wash.

[ShyTorque]

At least they did not have to have another pilot to hold their hand like those on 230 Sqn.

This might have been the case in your time (certainly not in my time though)...so were you and a friend the only ones? :p

[floatsarmed]

Hyd problem apparently.

[Sven Sixtoo]

They suffer no more than any other front line helicopter....well, any other forty year old ones, anyway

Shy, now I'm really worried for my SAR ex-colleagues. All 26 of the RAFs Sea Kings are still in the working fleet, 35 years after the introduction to service. The accident rate over the next 5 years to match the Puma is going to be horrific.:hmm:

Iain
Still looking for a job.

[Savoia]

.

.. Aerospatial, the original designers of the Puma ..

Not to split hairs but I think one may discover that Sud Aviation were in fact the ones behind the inception of the Puma as seen from this 1966 ad (below).

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rXSAiGGYtgk/ThVjFhumWVI/AAAAAAAAD2U/Aoaio_XxRFs/s512/sa330ad.jpg

[heli1]

If it had been a Sea King it wouldn't have rolled over.Pumas are notorious for this,even with just a heavy landing and most of the remaining fleet have probably been repaired at one time or another.
Looks like this one might jump its place in the Mk.2 conversion queue !

[Fareastdriver]

Savoia.

Absolutely correct. One tends to lose trace of what manufacturers used to be called. That is one of the original six 330s that had the flat-fronted windscreens similar to the UH 1.
One of them became the first 'Super Puma' with Makilas, a rear plug instead of the forward plug and the single wheel undercarriage.

[TipCap]

Although well retired now, I remember the doghouse coming off the As332L. I was based with Bristows in Aberdeen at the time.

I believe Aerospatiale, through Bristow's brought out a secondary locking mechanism for the sliding cowls which were retro-fitted to all "Tigers". As part of your walk round you had to check that the catch was locked and secured. It was then physically impossible for the cowling to slide back.

Bristows also repositioned the VHF2 aerial from the doghouse to the top of the tail boom on their As332L's.

If it was a doghouse detachment on the Puma, and it is still only a theory, you would have thought that Aerospatiale (Eurocopter) would have made the mod available to the RAF. Whether the RAF would have incorporated it is another thing.

Glad everyone walked away :ok:

John

[ShyTorque]

It was then physically impossible for the cowling to slide back.

The RAF HC1 dog house /dog kennel was fitted with a secondary locking device, consisting of a steel pin which went through two plates on the front right lower side of the cowling. Everyone thought this was the "final fix" until one Puma had an engine cowling drop open in flight. The pressure of the airflow inside the dog kennel pushed it off backwards, leaving just the area around the locking device still nicely locked in place to show that the crew had done their walkround checks properly.

The RAF HC1 also had a retaining plate for the "piano wire" hinge on the inclined fairing on the tail pylon. This wasn't fitted to the civvie versions until one came loose and took out the tail rotor of one over the North Sea.

Not very joined up stuff, really.

[212man]

this wasn't fitted to the civvie versions until one came loose and took out the tail rotor of one over the north sea.

G-TIGD, with RM...

[Fareastdriver]

This wasn't fitted to the civvie versions until one came loose

A long story. When I joined Bristow to fly the 330J I had 2.000 hrs on Pumas and as Bristow were almost all ex Navy so they did not have a lot of experience with them. When I brought up the fact the the Bristow ones did not have a locking plate the reaction was normal. "Shut up Crab, this isn't the Air Force."
A week later one migrated about a foot down and overnight Bristow were on to Odiham to get details of the fix.
A couple of years later along come the Super Puma. No locking plate, just a bigger rubber stopper. I queried this as I felt that this was not enough. "Shut up Crab, this is a Super Puma, not a Puma."

Then one came out on finals to the runway.

[212man]

The modern term is 'Corporate memory.' Sadly, many companies remain amnesic!

[EESDL]

anything to do with incident......in-box today

EASA EAD 2011-0129-E: AS 332 and EC 225 helicopters: Fuselage - Intermediate Gear Box (IGB) Fairing Gutter - Inspection / Modification / Replacement
EASA EMERGENCY AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVE


... view EASA EAD 2011-0129-E

[AS332L1]

No this is an amendment to an existing AD nothing to do with the dog house