Missing Defence Assets (merged)

[Flyt3est]

BBC News - MPs alarmed by 'missing' £6.3bn defence assets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14018288)

MP's alarmed by the fact that £6.3Bn seems to have gone amiss somewhere.. well thats only 1/6th of the total defence budget.. what ho chaps.. It'll turn up eh??

Sadly as an ex-serviceman, I can't say I am surprised by this story, random drinking events, breweries and lack of ability to organize springs to mind.

:ugh:

[Willard Whyte]

Have they looked under the sofa? My kids are always shoving stuff under ours.

[ZH875]

Most of the stuff that was lost during Op Corporate was being carried/stored on the Atlantic Conveyor.

No wonder it sank.:E

[minigundiplomat]

I thought you couldn't put a price on morale, but obviously you can -£6.3Bn apparently.

[Kreuger flap]

£184m of Bowman radios

They are here.

H4855, Bowman Personal Role Radio Body | eBay UK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4855-Bowman-Personal-Role-Radio-Body-/250848333020?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item3a67b9ccdc)

I personally like this bit.

your radio will be picked from a batch of radios released by the MOD.

£184 worth released by the MOD no doubt.

[dead_pan]

...by some strange coincidence M&M Enterprises (UK) have just reported profits of £6.3bn

[NURSE]

one comentator on BBC comments was going on about charging service personell for missing kit. So if the Kit goes missing at depot/store level who's liable apart from us the Tax payers?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Its no good pointing, USAS says its not there......;)

[Flyt3est]

I recall back in the 90's there was a shortage of SeaKing main rotor gearboxes and Wastelands couldn't turn round enough overhauled items to keep pace.. anyway, I was on duty with the crash and smash team, and I went into one of the old ground equipment hangars on whiskey site at Culdrose and found 4 serviceable MRGB's that apparently main stores knew nothing about..

Thats why I am not surprised by this news article.

[MATELO]

Maybe we all should have taken the "missing items" at the end of SRO's a bit more seriously.

[Jabba_TG12]

No surprise whatsoever. DSDA's a complete and utter mess and the former LAIPT one of the most useless bodies it has ever been my dim and distant displeasure to have had any connection with.

You have a whole pile of legacy applications left over from the single service days, of which DSDA knows nowhere near enough to be able to administer, maintain, look after... so, they try and offload the whole lot onto Boeing for 800 million under the guise of FLIS, not to mention the creeping advance of DII, who cant or wont host half of these apps; there are legacy apps which are unsupportable or end of life that they wont replace and wont make a decision on funding, continuing to kick them into the long grass to be replaced eventually by FLIS... and decisions continue to be fudged, avoided, heads kept low, for just that little bit longer until their pensions can be drawn.

And thats without getting into the very cosy relationships between the Tier One outsourcing organisations and the IPT's in this case running counter to the interests of the services and the user community. The behaviour of one particular supplier, I found absolutely reprehensible.

This report, I'm afraid, is no surprise whatsoever. And chances are, it'll get significantly worse before it gets any better. Sooner or later something big will happen where the system will prove that despite the best efforts of those on the shop floor and the sharp end (who do their best to cope despite this millstone around their necks), that it is truly unfit for purpose.

I just hope it doesnt cost anyone their lives.

[airpolice]

DeadPan


The best news is that, Everyone has a share!

[dkh51250]

In the meantime, would anyone like to lay a wager as to whether or not the board of DSDA still receive their bonuses?

[Jabba_TG12]

They probably do. Again, wouldnt be surprised.

[Pontius Navigator]

I had a bit of kit values at £130k. ASAIK no one signed for it except that every year some Army wallah would send us sheets and sheets of inventory audit paper work with the item listed.

More precisely, a similar item was listed with a similar NSN but a quite different serial number.

We would correct the paperwork and return it.

Next year another set of paper with similar item listed with a similar NSN but a quite different serial number.

As we didn't keep the paperwork I have no idea if it was the same wrong info from the year before or another set of fictious numbers.

[Rossian]

...how many items are languishing in customs warehouses around the Med.
Ship orders spares to go to next port of call
spares flown out civair to, let's say Catania or Siracusa
pusser tries to get said spares out but either, doesn't speak Italian and is stumped by the Byzantine customs procedures or won't pay the "facilitation fee".
The man who HAS to stamp the paperwork is away/at lunch/on holiday/not available (no fee has been forthcoming)
Ship sails in order to stay on schedule
re-orders spares to be delivered to next port of call ummm Greece maybe??

I found this when I badly needed spares to fix our aircraft. While I negotiated with the man, chiefie wandered around and came up with a/c batteries, hydraulic pipes and other associated a/c bits that the intended recipients had never found their way to. For a small extra consideration we were allowed to load all this stuff into our van and depart.

The SK MRGB tag above reminded me of a friend who was responsible for these a good few years ago. In a depot my friend found a large cage full of them. All were "quarantined" as the a/c was subject to an incident report and were waiting "examination" in the investigation into the incident. The incident reports had long been cleared. They had clearly been forgotten about. And new ones were procured.

The Ancient Mariner

[Party Animal]

Is it any surprise when we have had 20 years of cuts in personnel, both military and civil servants. Reorganised headquarters and organisations on a biannual basis, converted paper files to electronic ones and contracted so many core elements out to the cheapest bidders. How many people have just given up and don't care any more? How many people who are about to be compulsary redundant are going to leave under a cloud of bitterness.

Interesting story a few years ago with huge cuts taking place 'in the city'. In some companies, employees being made redundant were getting calls to the HR department to be told their services were no longer required at the same time as staff from the IT department were removing computers from their desk spaces and closing down all electronic access to business systems. They were given immediate notice to leave, had to hand over access cards and were escorted by security to clear out desks before being shown the door. Grossly unpleasant and not what you would like to see in Defence but the whole idea was to prevent bitter and twisted employees causing any possible chance of financial damage before leaving the office.

Could we see the same over the next few years?

[Opsbeatch]

I no longer feel guilty for keeping my aircrew socks...:E

OB

[airpolice]

Maybe this explains why the Nimrod R1 is not required for elint any more.


Terry is now using the radios from stores / Ebay so we no longer need soophisticated equipment to overcome the freqency hopping ICOMS or Cellular services. Just select a chan on the Bowman and here what's on your local net.

Simples.

[Arfur Dent]

The Chaps at MOD have mislaid £6 billion worth of equipment, including 5961 radios worth £184 million.
Can anyone help? :D

[high spirits]

Have a look in the Sqn freezer. That's where your beret usually ends up:ok:

[LBP PC DC]

ATC/CCF Squadrons that have recently been on camps with missing kit?? Oh no, sorry, forgot "Souvenir hunting" isn't allowed any more.

[tucumseh]

Have you a link? Wouldn't be surprised if some of them were BOWMAN radios. It is well known many units got replacements/upgrades before the BOWMAN contract was let, so chucked BOWMAN in a corner when it arrived 4 or 5 years later.

Going further back, Director Internal Audit crucified AMSO/AML in the mid-90s for disposing of brand new kit, including radios, which was waiting to be installed in aircraft mid-life upgrades. AML responded by promptly scrapping more, just as contracts were being let to replace the first lot. When the investigation started what few records that existed were conveniently lost.

[JFZ90]

Have you checked the NoW offices?

They probably nicked them to create a story and sell papers.

[ShyTorque]

Most of it's probably been seen off on Ebay with a "buy it now" sticker.

[NutLoose]

Is it any surprise when we have had 20 years of cuts in personnel, both military and civil servants. Reorganised headquarters and organisations on a biannual basis, converted paper files to electronic ones and contracted so many core elements out to the cheapest bidders. How many people have just given up and don't care any more? How many people who are about to be compulsary redundant are going to leave under a cloud of bitterness.

Interesting story a few years ago with huge cuts taking place 'in the city'. In some companies, employees being made redundant were getting calls to the HR department to be told their services were no longer required at the same time as staff from the IT department were removing computers from their desk spaces and closing down all electronic access to business systems. They were given immediate notice to leave, had to hand over access cards and were escorted by security to clear out desks before being shown the door. Grossly unpleasant and not what you would like to see in Defence but the whole idea was to prevent bitter and twisted employees causing any possible chance of financial damage before leaving the office.

Could we see the same over the next few years?


Pretty common in the Civil sector.. Mind you accountants can take a lot of the blame, at one large (at the time) UK maintainance facility they had contractors in doing a large check on a 4 engined airliner because accountants had costed it and it was cheaper to have contractors do the work......... fine, the problem was there wasn't another aircraft in, so all the permanent engineering staff were standing around doing nothing as they had been told that only contractors could work on the aircraft.... so the company was actually paying out over double on the manpower whilst over half of them stood idly by, something lost on the accountants.

So bad was the situation that one day an employee noticed someone putting stickers on the ground equipment and enquired what he was doing..... turned out he was from another company and was there to put bids in on the ground equipment as the company was closing down the facility and it was the first the workforce heard of it!!!!

I seem to remember most Jags that went in would never get off the ground with the amount of stores that were written off on them.

[sycamore]

E-Bay for `best-buys`....

[Wander00]

Which brings us round again neatly to the number of Officers who had left their swords in the office the night of the Brampton fire

[Dengue_Dude]

I do remember from 1973 to 79, lots of spare parts for Albert never made it when we and other colleagues were AOG.

Perhaps a lot of the missing bits are there?

[PICKS135]

airpolice Maybe this explains why the Nimrod R1 is not required for elint any more.


Terry is now using the radios from stores / Ebay so we no longer need soophisticated equipment to overcome the freqency hopping ICOMS or Cellular services. Just select a chan on the Bowman and here what's on your local net.

Simples.


No no no the Nimrods have gone because MoD found these to be cheaper

Uniden UBC-3500XLT Scanner at Radioscan - With Close Call! (http://www.radioscan.co.uk/ubc3500xlt.html)


Read in an aviation magazine many years ago. that the R.1s were mostly equipped with AOR scanning equipment.

[NutLoose]

Which brings us round again neatly to the number of Officers who had left their swords in the office the night of the Brampton fire


Here you go Wanderer, "liberated" from a mess after the War.........

And God awful too..... Would look good on parade though with a lit candle in it :p

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKkYE3QOw!gLmBN59v+pPCw~~0_12.JPG


WW2 British RAF airforce ceremonial sword candle stick on eBay (end time 27-Jul-11 19:20:45 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150625184071&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

[NutLoose]

Quote:
airpolice Maybe this explains why the Nimrod R1 is not required for elint any more.


Terry is now using the radios from stores / Ebay so we no longer need soophisticated equipment to overcome the freqency hopping ICOMS or Cellular services. Just select a chan on the Bowman and here what's on your local net.

Simples.

No no no the Nimrods have gone because MoD found these to be cheaper

Uniden UBC-3500XLT Scanner at Radioscan - With Close Call! (http://www.radioscan.co.uk/ubc3500xlt.html)


Read in an aviation magazine many years ago. that the R.1s were mostly equipped with AOR scanning equipment.


Are they not simply putting it out to tender? with the News of the World expressing an interest? ;)

[Q-RTF-X]

I no longer feel guilty for keeping my aircrew socks...:E

OB

Thank you OB, your confession has lifted a great weight off my shoulders and I now feel better about the 2BA spanner that was missing from my tool kit, duly charged to and deducted from my pay, only to turn-up in an old pair of shorts in my deep sea box. Though I was still supposed to hand it in (no refund of charges mind you) I threw caution to the winds and left it with my father-in-law until I left the service. :E

[ghostnav]

The missing 6.3 Bn is likely to be those missing weapon stocks. Can't understand why our reserve of bombs and missiles keeps getting less and less!

[Mothballed]

Chances are that a lot of this kit isn't actually physically 'missing' but more likely badly accounted for. The problem is that there is still a mental mindset amongst a lot of service personnel that 'Stores' is a big Aladdin's cave that will keep spewing out the bits they need. Item's aren't tracked properly through the system, mis-identified on paperwork and left lying around in the corners of hangars, chief's desks until they just become part of the furniture and consistently ignored.

[jayc530]

Just as the Supply/Logistics trade move onto the high pay band - brilliant, very well deserved!

[TerminalTrotter]

Been there, done that. Everyone responsible for spares,tools etc. knows that he carries the can for any shortages, so acquires any freebies, liberated or lost items he can. When he moves on he may mention these to his successor, or may not. Or an audit might loom, and he may hurriedly 'lose' the excess, frequently to the scrap heap. I have known vehicles to be lost and turn up only when tax and MOT were out of date.

Any organisation that uses a stores system, such as MOD has to, is vulnerable to this. Big firms in the civilian sector, for instance, use budgets. Buy what you need or whatever you want, but when the cash has gone you will have to manage without, or explain why you need extra to some very unsympathetic people.

During WW2, when ball bearing factories were being bombed in Germany, and there was a threat that tank production would be reduced as a result, Albert Speer sent squads out round QM stores and liberated all the buckshee bearings that storemen were holding onto 'just in case' and they managed to actually increase production of tanks while the production of bearings was brought back normal.

I'll bet that a fair chunk of what's missing from the books is still out there somewhere. The rest has gone because the system punishes people who admit to or point out admin cock-ups so there is no incentive to find the missing bits.

TT

[mikip]

just how old is this 'missing' equipment are we talking about all new shiny stuff or things as old as say propellers, wooden, sopwith camels for the use of, there was a couple of those laying about at Hornchurch 50 years or so ago

[Dundiggin']

How about checking out the ex Trade Assistant General who sold a crashed Puma for scrap to the local pikies who was later employed in Odiham stores several years' ago, as a civvy and then decided to start his own 'retail flying clothing business'...............(can't remember his name though..)

[Doctor Cruces]

Knowing MoD they probably just don't understand.....

Well, those LGBs were under the Tornado wings when it left for Libya, but when it came back they'd gone.

Doc C
:O

[GIATT]

During WW2, when ball bearing factories were being bombed in Germany, and there was a threat that tank production would be reduced as a result, Albert Speer sent squads out round QM stores and liberated all the buckshee bearings that storemen were holding onto 'just in case' and they managed to actually increase production of tanks while the production of bearings was brought back normal.

I seem to remember that after the fire at Hullavington a call went out asking PJIs to look in their lockers and they recovered enough parachutes to allow a Coy sized jump to proceed. (That's a centurion's worth of bodies to the non airborne)

[SixOfTheBest]

If they try and reclaim my issue aircrew shades....

[NutLoose]

where's it all gone then..............
How about checking out the ex Trade Assistant General who sold a crashed Puma for scrap to the local pikies who was later employed in Odiham stores several years' ago, as a civvy and then decided to start his own 'retail flying clothing business'...............(can't remember his name though..)


Two different people..... the one that sold the Puma parts XW198? (and got off with it as he was told simply to get rid of the parts), I believe someone spotted a kid swinging on her new "puma" seat swing at the local scrappies as he was travelling into work, the person who sold them was an RAF Regiment person called N**s N****r.

The other was a storeman who noticed the hasp and clasp had been fitted to the clothing store door the wrong way round so you could unscrew it to get access, that was rumbled I believe when someone spotted the latest flying kit, something crews at Odiham couldn't get hold of because of shortages, being sold at a car boot stall.

[ShyTorque]

Nutloose is correct. I sat in on the Courts Martial (1979 or 1980?) of RAF Odiham personnel involved in the latter stores thefts, as an "Officer under Instruction". It was not an isolated incident and a number of people were involved. Stuff was being stolen from stores to order. IIRC, a local locksmith contacted the police after he was approached to make copies of certain "controlled" security keys.

The crashed Puma's pilot seat was obtained from a scrapyard near Blackbushe airport and it was spotted being used as a garden swing by a passing RAF engineering officer.

[NutLoose]

:)

Think the RAF then had to buy it all back for the Board of Enquiry into the accident as well.

[4mastacker]

...............(can't remember his name though..) I can't forget his bloody name... SAC J..n E....d C...y. I was the escort at the numerous Orderly Rooms/Summaries of Evidence for C...y, his cronies and all the other airmen/JNCOs who got caught up in the aftermath. I missed out on the Courts Martial because the SWO reckoned it was someone else's turn to wear their No1s. C...y and his mates were caught coming out of the external side door to Clothing Stores by the Duty Supplier who was carrying out an impromptu external security check. That was the trigger moment for the excretia/fan inter-reaction going into overdrive.

[Roadster280]

Something doesn't ring right here.

6000 radios gone missing. There's 200,000 blokes in the mob, so approximately 3 per 100. If ONE radio went missing during my time, there would be an enquiry, as they were "starred items".

Are these decommissioned Clansman radios, or new ones? Maybe Ptarmigan Triffid sets. Radios in aircraft that have been decommissioned?

I can't believe the MOD has seriously lost 6000 radios.

[BEagle]

Something similar happened at Suffolk's Phinest Phantom base in the early 1980s. Some thieving SAC was caught trying to make off with a whole load of kit from stores one evening - which happened to be when I was SDO. Fortunately the RAFP had everything well in hand by the time I arrived at the Guardroom, so there was no risk of me screwing anything up. 'Chummy' was then 'banged up' looking rather sheepish.

I asked whether there was anything they needed me to do as there was nothing in the Ladybird Book of the SDO which gave me much guidance. Fortunately there wasn't - but I was asked to return when the 'Investigator' arrived from his call-out.

The 'Investigator' was straight out of The Sweeney. Close cropped hair, a black leather bomber jacket and about as wide as he was tall. He set up his desk and lined up his pen and notebook with precision. He told me what the procedure would be, then I asked if he would need me for anything further ('let the professionals get on with it and don't bugger about getting in the way' being my feeling).

"No it's OK sir. But I might need you if I have to tumble his drum though."
"Really? You can actually do that? I didn't think that sort of thing was allowed?"
"Err, oh, sorry sir, that's an expression we use in the trade. It means 'search his accommodation'.
"Thank heavens for that. I thought you meant you might need to smack the bugger around the swede to get him to cough!"
"Would I do that sir?", he asked with a pained expression, clearly offended at my doubting his professionalism, then continued with a wry grin. "Might get the answers a bloody sight quicker if I did though!".

So we had a cup of tea and a chat about the forthcoming procedure and off I went to write something in the SDO's report. I gather that 'Chummy' was subsequently given a little holiday in a Colchester holiday camp. But I'm quite sure that the 'Investigator' told all his Plod chums about the dumb Rodney who thought that giving suspected villains an encouraging little slap was all part of police procedure!

[Stuff]

Just because kit is "missing" or "lost" doesn't mean the MOD doesn't still have it. It could easily be sat in a box in the corner of a store without anyone knowing what it is.

[racedo]

If its £6.3 Billion then lots of it is gone as no way there is that amount of equipment hanging around unaccounted for.

Of course there is the other question about whether it ever really existed in the 1st place,not unknown for companies to invoice for something which has never been delivered.