Prince William Lands Sea King on a Canadian Lake !

[Senior Pilot]

Prince William expected to fly Sea King helicopter in Prince Edward Island (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/prince-william-expected-to-fly-sea-king-helicopter-in-prince-edward-island.html)

HALIFAX - Prince William has been cleared to fly a Sea King helicopter during a flight demonstration Monday in Prince Edward Island, the Canadian military has confirmed.
The 29-year-old prince has flown Sea Kings before, having served in the Royal Air Force as a search and rescue pilot since September 2010.

The prince and his wife Kate are to arrive in Ottawa on Thursday to begin a tour that will also take them to Quebec, the Northwest Territories and Alberta, before leaving July 8 for California.
The couple is slated to arrive in Charlottetown on Sunday night before departing the next morning for Dalvay by-the-Sea, the waterfront resort where William is expected to board a CH124 Sea King with at least two Canadian military pilots and a navigator.
Military spokesman Lt. Tyrone Grande said Wednesday the prince will be on board the aircraft during a so-called waterbirding demonstration, which will involve landing the amphibious helicopter on Dalvay Lake.
The training manoeuvre is designed to simulate an emergency landing.
"His Royal Highness will be flying the aircraft ... with guidance from our crew," Grande said in an interview from 12 Wing Shearwater, the Halifax-area airbase that is home to the Atlantic fleet of Sea Kings.
One of the pilots aboard the helicopter will be Col. Sam Michaud, wing commander at Shearwater.
Canadian Sea King pilots undergo one hour of waterbird training annually.
After the helicopter flight, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge — with at least 400 members of the media in tow — will take part in a dragon boat race on the lake before leaving for Summerside, P.E.I., for more search and rescue demonstrations.
The couple leave for Yellowknife that night.

[industry insider]

Good, he will need to get current again after spending the last couple of months on extended holiday.

Is he ever going back to work as a RAF SAR Pilot or will he now be restricted to Royal duties only?

[JimBall]

His lowness (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14012948)

The Duke of Cambridge has landed a Sea King helicopter on water as part of his tour of Canada with his wife, Kate.

The RAF search and rescue pilot had requested the exercise ahead of a day of activities on Prince Edward Island.

Canada is the only country to train its pilots to perform "waterbird" landings, in which the helicopter's engine is cut before it is landed on water.

The couple later went head-to-head as they steered teams of dragon boat racers across Dalvay Lake.

William was guided through the tricky manoeuvre in the Sea King by Col Sam Michaud from the Canadian Forces, who described the royal as "relaxed and professional".

At one point, he hovered around 40ft (12m) above the water, then plunged quickly out of the sky, sending spray up into the air.

Col Michaud said the duke told him his colleagues back home would be jealous he got to do it.

[hands_on123]

I heard he also goes to the toilet, and eats food, just like a real person.

Give me strength.

[pasptoo]

Utter drivel from the uninformed masses of the media......again! :ugh:

1. Poor Weather?, looked fine to me!
2. Canadian Search and Rescue don't fly the CH124!
3. Don't think they'll be landing on for a Rescue Mission either!

Good to see the old girl can still be tapped up each summer for fun on the lake

[FLY 7]

BBC News - Prince William lands helicopter on water during Canadian visit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14020450)

Prince William has landed a Sea King helicopter on water as part of a demonstration of a search and rescue manoeuvre which is carried out in Canada.

The prince was watched by crowds who braved the rain to see his flying skills in Dalvay-by-the-Sea. The Duchess of Cambridge was also watching from dry land.

Canada is the only country which trains its Sea King pilots to perform 'waterbird' landings and the duke performed it for the first time.

[JezusNut]

Good on him:D

[Bronx]

Good on him for what? :confused:

I heard he also goes to the toilet, and eats food, just like a real person.
Yeah, I heard that as well.

[Scissorlink]

Good on him for bringing Helicopter search and rescue into the public eye, can only be good for every service in the world that relies on donations from the public.

Thanks William :ok:

[dragman]

Don't blame the poor guy for what the press write about him.

He's got a hot wife, rides motorbikes and flies choppers. Seems like a good guy to me.

[Pilot DAR]

During a discussion I had with a Canadian military Sea King maintenance person, when I asked about water landings, he told me "We don't do those anymore, the hulls are not water tight.".

Thus, I watched with interest. There was yellow tape all over the lower portion of the fuselage. I would remark that duct tape has been made for decades in Canada, in the perfect Sea King grey colour. Perhaps that would have been a less conspicuous choice!

[Thomas coupling]

Believe me, the course is alive and well and they continue to throw the S61 at the lake to this day in all their professionalism. A fantastic experience - possibly unique in the world for helicopter offshore pilots.:ok:

[skadi]

In the 80s, the Danish AF did also OEI waterlandings on a lake with their S61. Few former collegues had the chance to do it there, they were quite impressed, usefull experience.

skadi

[Robbo Jock]

Pilot DAR, I'd guess the holes they were covering up are generally meant to be open, so the more conspicuous the tape, the less likelihood of some remaining where it shouldn't after the exercise.

[Agaricus bisporus]

As did S61s and Chinooks on the Loch of Skene. Used to be part of the type training, if not part of the 6 monthly base check iirc (just before my time, sadly). Again, early 80s.

[zorab64]

For those who have never flown the Queen of the Skies, a waterbird course was/is always something to do if you could/can. It's a potential life-saver, should a Seaking crew find themselves on the water with only one engine, as the aim is to teach how to get OFF the water again!

No doubt his Squadron colleagues will have discussed the theory of winding up Nr & overpitching to get unstuck, but I'll bet they'll be quizzing him for detail of the experience when he gets back to work. :ok: There are few helicopters that could even consider dragging themselves off the water on one engine, so it's good to see the Canadians are still teaching it. And of course the average airframe would probably take on some water in a ditching, but one would hope not enough to stop it getting airborne again, as it's only likely to ditch once! The airframes used for the waterbird course are normally kept for that purpose only, so of course they'll try to minimise water ingress in those machines they regularly put in the water. There really are some real "Duh" comments on this thread sometimes. :(

While Prince William has a profession as his day job, albeit apparently part-time, he also has a destiny which is not of his making. Give the guy a break for bringing the skills of our profession to the front page, instead of Royal-knocking a young gentleman who's making a good job of introducing himself and his wife to the world. He, like other members of the "Firm", may not get it right all the time, but he's not doing badly so far, IMHO. :ok: For those who haven't yet learned, the media report what they want to, and how they want to - don't expect it to live up to what pprune members expect and maybe try to read the positive bits between the lines.

[Thomas coupling]

They dont use the waterbird for anything other than this evolution. It is a vastly modified bird having a load of stuff stripped out and maskers everywhere!
The lake is freshwater too meaning the cab will still be flyable a month later!

The real aircraft would take onboard about a ton of water every 10 minutes because it leaks like a seive.
Once the 'stab' fails (light in cockpit extinguishes) you are stuffed as there is so much water in the nose bay/avionics that the CofG is out of limits (remember that Mil8 take off video where he tries tog et airborne with an out of limit fwd cofG?)
I can't recall any modern helos built to take off again from the water. Its become an anachronism. Once ditched -stay ditched! Mind you it would probably cause more problems launching after "hitting" the water......who knows what you have done to the tail rotor or drive train......and you don't want to know seconds after lifting:uhoh:

It is a rare step back to the time when flying was really fun;) I'm glad it still goes on and the experience one achieves from doing it - will live with you forever.

Um lifting - you joking or what???? Whats an S62:8

[rotornut]

From CNN Prince William, Catherine visit Northwest Territories on Canadian tour - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/07/05/canada.royal.visit/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

In the exercise, which was originated by Canadian armed forces for use in search-and-rescue missions, the helicopter's engine is cut off and it then lands in the water. When it is about one-quarter submerged, the propellers are restarted to bring the helicopter back to toward the sky:eek:

[Troglodita]

I had the pleasure of completing the Waterbird course at Shearwater when we visited Halifax in HMS HERMES in early summer 1974.
Fantastic course and great to see it is still going.

The jump technique taught (plus fast fuel dump) came in useful when I had an engine failure at max gross (++) departing HMS Tiger a few years later.

I hope William had as much fun as I did!

Trog

[76fan]

I unwillingly ditched at night from the hover in a heavy Sea King in 1975 and three years later experienced water operations in controlled training conditions in an S61N with Bristows at Meickle (?) Loch. I wish the order had been the other way around because to be in a helicopter on the water is initially a most peculiar and unsettling feeling, and the Bristow water training gave one terrific confidence. The Sea King and S61N may be relatively large helicopters but they are very small boats when bobbing about on the ocean. As regards taking on water, after three hours the sea was lapping over the top of the sponsons, and yes, most of our electrics had gone. I believe it would also be a very brave, or stupid, pilot to attempt the demanding "running" single engined take-off to overpitch and then accelerate just above the surface unless both visual and sea conditions were very good indeed .... but there was always the idiot sitting safely behind a desk who asked why I didn't attempt it.

[Thomas coupling]

Um lifting [What you meant is EOL not OEI, correct?]. - that is awesome footage, so rare too - 50+ years ago. Nothing much has changed except they dont take passengers and dont EOL onto the water!!! Too risky. I didnt realise the S62 was a single engine hippo but it seemed to be quite gracious over the water. Some of those close proximity manouevres would be deemd careless these days but he certainly felt ver y very comfortable with the machine.
Do you keep in touch with the pilot today? Is he even alive:eek:

Brilliant footage - many thanks.

Troglodita you arent Spud Murphy are you?

[John Eacott]

Two things that haven't been mentioned, that stood out for me: how gentle the landings when using all that hull area to absorb the touch down, and how useless are the brakes when you instinctively apply them to slow down or turn :p

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/S61N%20water.jpg

Following on from the previous ditching dits, it doesn't always go right regardless of Sea State One (excuse the thread drift):

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1251-1/824+Sea+King+051+ditched+and+inverted+with+diver.jpg

[Nigel Osborn]

The S62a was a great machine to fly & excellent on the water. However I see in the video the wheels were down & the normal practice is to have them up for water work.
At least they look down to my old eyes!:ok:

[Nigel Osborn]

Um

You may be right as I haven't flown one since 1975 but my memory tells me they came out a bit more. If you tried to land in the 'up' position, the tail wheel lands first & then the front drops. On the only occasion I did this, it was soon very obvious the wheels were up, quite apart from the ground crew waving furiously! But you can land with them up but expect a few scratches on the pontoon.
I never had one leg stick up in 1001 hours, however if the oleos were at the wrong pressure, they were very keen to pad badly or even get ground resonance. A gentle landing with a little forward motion seemed to fix that.
Very slow but stacks of power!

I've just had a look at your video & you're right! I guess from the cockpit you can't really tell how far up they go!:ok:

[Thomas coupling]

It has no effect on the landing or takeoff whether the wheels are down or up in the S61/SeaKing.(Water landing!).
Overland, if the wheels are jammed up or refuse to lower the Navy use a sand pit which is a rectangular raised pit made of snadbags which the seaking lands on to minimise damage to the hull. Can't remember the last time it has been used in anger though?

[76fan]

It has no effect on the landing or takeoff whether the wheels are down or up in the S61/SeaKing.(Water landing!).

I have to disagree unless one is making vertical landings or take-offs. Any appreciable forward speed with only the wheels in the water must produce considerable drag so forcing the nose of the aircraft down.

[Thomas coupling]

What do you mean by : "appreciable speed"?
IF one has to make a forced landing in the water, one reduces to the minimum speed possible. It would be around 10kts max if you had one engine remaining. If you were landing with both engines out, it would be a virtual zero spd landing.
In both instances I can guarantee that wheels down has absolutely no effect whatsoever. Take off is exactly the same - wheels down whilst trying to gain fwd momentum (flying speed) has absolutely no effect on the outcome.
trust me:). Wheels down whilst in the water increases stability by lowering the C of G.

[John Eacott]

Landing/TO at zero speed: as TC said. Taxiing showed no difference wheels up or down

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/S61N%20water%20landing%2001.jpg

Re the stability comment: the inverted SK photo I posted turned over when the sonar cable was cut and a few hundred feet of 'anchor' was lost :eek: But I'm not sure that a couple of feet of U/C gear would have that much effect ;)

[76fan]

TC. Please read my 23 above. Can you assure me that you have been there and that you have made a single engine take-off at weight? I ditched after an engine blew in the hover and as I recall the take-off procedure required that when one had got the aircraft down to a suitable weight one had to attempt to acheive 40kts by charging through the waves in manual throttle before overpitching into the air and then accelerating just above the surface to achieve a climbing speed around 65 kts....and you would try that with the wheels down? I wouldn't like to be in there with you. As I said, conditions would have to be optimum to take the risk and I do not think dragging your wheels through the water would help there. The gear is dropped to increase stability if you are staying on the water, not if you are attempting a take-off. My experience was forced on me, I wasn't "playing" or experimenting when I had four lives in my hands so I would want more than your "assurance" that it would make no difference, thanks!

[76fan]

Sorry John, if you remember the aircraft turned over only AFTER the rotors had been shutdown and it was then that the aircraft became unstable on the water and turned over. The cable had been cut a couple of hours before that! Remaining stable on the surface and trying to get airborne again are two entirely different situations and a couple of sea anchors hanging under the sponsons won't help when you are trying to plough through the water in an attempted "running" take-off.

[John Eacott]

76fan,

Yes, poor choice of words by me, I was referring to the stability comment about the gear! I do recall that the sonar cable cutter wouldn't work, which prevented a SE TO early on when the SK wasn't filling up with water. And then the ship's divers took bolt croppers over in a dinghy to achieve the cable cutting, followed by someone on board getting seasick?

As Squadron SEO, I was miffed that they took a dinghy and boltcroppers that I had signed for :hmm:

[Soave_Pilot]

All that fuzz for a hovering auto on the water??

[GreenKnight121]

Good, he will need to get current again after spending the last couple of months on extended holiday.

Is he ever going back to work as a RAF SAR Pilot or will he now be restricted to Royal duties only?

He's already been "back to work as a RAF SAR Pilot"...
Prince William and Kate spend his 29th birthday apart - mirror.co.uk (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/06/22/prince-william-and-kate-middleton-spend-his-29th-birthday-apart-115875-23217951/)

PRINCE William missed out on spending his 29th birthday with wife Kate yesterday, as they were 300 miles apart. William was working in RAF Anglesey while Kate was sorting out their new Kensington Palace home and preparing for the newlyweds’ trip to Canada and the US.
Wills had to make do with a brief phone call while Kate, also 29, was being briefed for her upcoming royal tour.


But don't let reality interfere with your rank, blind, unreasoning hatred of the man for who his father and grandmother are.

[Outwest]

John,

I'm sure you will remember the name Pierre Looten.

He attempted a water landing at the RFM max speed with landing gear down of 20 kts. He told me that he was amazed that he survived it as one sponson went completely underwater and the blades very nearly contacted the water. Gear up at 30 kts was not a problem but the rooster tail coming off the tail wheel was a spectacular site :D

[76fan]

John,
Hopefully my last words on my "adventure", the details of which are embedded in my memory. After the ditching all events were recorded in full whilst we bobbed around at sea ... in the hope that it would help anyone else finding themselves in the same situation. I fairly quickly dismissed any ideas of an attempted take-off (i) we were so heavy, first dip of sortie, that we would have trouble trying to get anywhere near to the SETO weight required in the fairly calm wind and high temperature conditions, and (ii) the horizon was where the stars stopped and the black of the sea started, no moonlight that I recall. My intention therefore was to keep the aircraft stable on the water by burning and turning until daybreak when the aircraft could be hoisted back onboard ....the rest of the crew elected to stay with the aircraft and we nearly made it! When we left the aircraft it was still sitting albeit low in the water with the only damage being to the engine cowling due departing turbine blade ends. I seem to recall that you (?) saw us looking very pretty sitting in the dark with the glow of blue water around us when at one stage all the landing lights had shorted on. No pictures of that? And before you ask, I believe that it was the Verey cartridges in the cockpit that later spontaneously ignited ... and they weren't on the "strip list"! As you know, by the time it got onboard it was a bit of a wreck, but it did fly again.
A true night to remember.
My regards to you.

[Thomas coupling]

TC. Please read my 23 above. Can you assure me that you have been there and that you have made a single engine take-off at weight? I ditched after an engine blew in the hover and as I recall the take-off procedure required that when one had got the aircraft down to a suitable weight one had to attempt to acheive 40kts by charging through the waves in manual throttle before overpitching into the air and then accelerating just above the surface to achieve a climbing speed around 65 kts....and you would try that with the wheels down? I wouldn't like to be in there with you. As I said, conditions would have to be optimum to take the risk and I do not think dragging your wheels through the water would help there. The gear is dropped to increase stability if you are staying on the water, not if you are attempting a take-off. My experience was forced on me, I wasn't "playing" or experimenting when I had four lives in my hands so I would want more than your "assurance" that it would make no difference, thanks!

76fan: I've ditched more times than you've had hot dinners, I'm afraid! I was a waterbird instructor at Shearwater, NS during my tour on exchange with the CAF. Wheels down - absolutely no problem whatsoever. The controlling factor is speed, anything greater than 10kts landing and yes the laws of physics catch up with you in the shape of drag, but below that, nil effect, nadda, nullus.
Definitely no effect on takeoff. SEWTO needs a bow wave speed then max contingency to get you airborne. If you needed 40kts, you weren't sewto weight or your technique was wrong. It's a race against time having to get airborne before taking on too much water. The instant one knows one is going to land on the water, fuel dumping should commence.

I also teach it now - albeit in the comfort of the class room .

[76fan]

76fan: I've ditched more times than you've had hot dinners, I'm afraid! I was a waterbird instructor at Shearwater, NS during my tour on exchange with the CAF.

Gosh, ditched more than 24458 times! In my day some people would have said you were "accident prone". I am so glad that I only ditched once .... and I thought instructing was about passing on experience, not boasting .....

[Flying Lawyer]

and I thought instructing was about passing on experience, not boasting .....

Whoa!
It was you who invited TC to tell you his experience, not merely give his assurance.

So he did. :ouch: