Air Crew Fireproof Uniforms/clothing footwear

[aileron_69]

Having a few beers and a yarn the other day with a colleague, regarding ops manuals etc, and we touched on a subject in ours regarding fireproof clothing. I'd never really thought too much about it but it got me thinking, all the uniforms that aircrew wear. Are they fireproof? It seems like one of the most basic and straightforward forms of protection one can provide for oneself. At our company we are required to wear fire resistant clothing, at the very least Cotton shirts (which are provided) Cotton pants and preferably leather boots. I picked myself up a secondhand nomex flight suit for $80 in the US which is a pretty handy thing I find. But then I got curious today and saw my old shirts from flying charter in the cupboard, and had a look at what they are made of, and they are half polyester, which I imagine is about as flame resistant as a supermarket bag. All those pilots out there in 206s/210s/GA8s etc etc flying charter wearing the same shirts, I wonder if they have ever contemplated this question.
Seems pretty silly to even make a pilots shirt that isnt 100% cotton at the very least. And to anyone that says "yeah but how many fires happen in aviation, its hardly a problem" Sure, but it only takes 1, and what if its you?

[Flying Binghi]

...wear fire resistant clothing, at the very least Cotton shirts...

Apparently cotton is not fire resistant as such. My understanding is cotton chares and is easyer to remove from the burns victim then melted plastic.

[waren9]

I did actually note the amount of polyester in my uniform with my current employer. It burns like hot molten cheese and the only fix is skin grafts.

My last employer atleast gave us woolen trou and jackets, cotton shirts etc. I think there was even something in the contract about it.

Spitfire pilots were on to it.

[mcgrath50]

Cotton isn't so much flame resistant (without added chemicals), more it doesn't melt onto your skin it just burns. It also requires a higher temperature I believe to burn compared to the melting point of the poly-whatever materials.

[A37575]

It seems like one of the most basic and straightforward forms of protection one can provide for oneself.

True enough but if you are really serious about all this protection for flying in general aviation aircraft, you may as well go the whole hog and buy yourself Nomex fire resistant flying gloves and a bone dome (crash helmet).

[Howard Hughes]

I cringe when I see guys getting in to aircraft in shorts and a T-Shirt...
I always cringe when I see thongs, it is very easy to put on a pair of jeans , long sleeve shirt (or jumper) and covered leather shoes, might just make all the difference.:ok:

[PyroTek]

AND a balaclava...overkill imho

Better keep that down, the men in suits will be coming for you any minute. :}

I remember a pilot who had an accident which gave him many burns, he now doesn't fly without a fireproof/resistant jacket on, not even if the weather is hot.

[Shagpile]

You still have to balance it up against comfort. If you are wearing something bulky, hot and uncomfortable it may be more unsafe due to inducing fatigue and distractions.

[Xcel]

Someone once pointed out how small our cockpit fire extinguisher was and asked - what on earth is that going to do? Wouldn't put out a match
The pilot of the day replied - I don't give a **** it's only there to bust the door open and put myself out...

Think it might be more useful than that - but definitely put a different spin on the idea of a fire - rarely in ga are these things considered.

As for polyanything - is hotter in summer, and cooler in winter - melts to your skin and just downright more uncomfortable even itchy... Why on earth would you wear that...

On another note funniest **** I ever seen was a student following along like a little puppy in full flight suit with badge and helmet to his instructor who was in the thongs... Raa attracts all types :ouch:

[aileron_69]

True enough but if you are really serious about all this protection for flying in general aviation aircraft, you may as well go the whole hog and buy yourself Nomex fire resistant flying gloves and a bone dome (crash helmet).


Our company policy is that we are required to wear "bone domes" also. Bloody good things on a bumpy day as my head regularly hits the roof!! Gets me thinking tho, all that padding etc inside the helmet, im presuming that would have to be fire resistant to some degree in order to get certification surely?

Gloves are are prob a bloody good idea, although I do find I cant grip the controls as well, beats having my hands burnt off I suppose :-P

[Woodwork]

There's no part of society that people who like cheap bourbon and Holden Commodores haven't contributed to!

Google "Revolution Racegear" (or your preferred alternate supplier, that's the only one I've heard of) - they do a fine line in ultra-light, flash-proof suits you can wear as outer wear or underwear. Designed for methanol-fuelled drag racers, so you know they must be decent because those things catch fire all the time. The car racing guys have got them down to be about as cool and lightweight as you're going to get.

Outdoors/camping places are also currently quite big on ultra-fine merino wool shirts. Something around 150gsm is very comfy even in hot weather, has the advantage that wool doesn't easily support bacteria growth (so your right-seater won't wince whenever you lift your arm in a Top End November), and of course wool is flame retardant.

[Captain Dart]

I bought Nomex suits from an outfit called 'Sisely'; good service via phone and internet. Not cheap but it's 'insurance'. Apparently Nomex suits lose their 'mojo' after some time which makes 'disposals store' jobs not so effective.

Nomex gloves are a 'must', at least available in the cockpit, and are not expensive. Might mean the difference in being able to operate that door/canopy to get yourself and your passenger(s) the hell out...

[Freewheel]

Gloves and long sleeves prevent sunburn without getting greasy sunscreen all over the cockpit.

[compressor stall]

Woodwork is right about the merino wool t-shirts. Not cheap, but bloody good and don't pong like the poly ones. Icebreaker do a very nice one.

[NOSIGN]

... don;t forget the merino undies! Bargain prices at most camping stores at the moment (financial end of year).

[Checkboard]

Tech fabrics have moved on, and there are now quite a few choices in Fire Resistant (FR) clothing. The quote below from one company (I have no affiliation!):

FLAME RESISTANT FABRICS
Your review of fabrics and use should consider all factors. There is no perfect flame resistant garment that meets all needs for end use requirements. Hudson Workwear is not liable for improper use. If you need further information to make your decision, we can supply manufacturer specifications or other reference matrials or contacts upon request.
All garments have manufacturer’s tags indicating fabric information and standards they meet.

Cool Touch - Cool Touch is a South Mills trademark for a 65% Nomex, 35% FR viscose Rayon blend. Cool Touch was developed as an effort to address the "too hot" and "not comfortable" aspects of Nomex IIIa. Cool Touch blends are available in 4.5 ox. wovens only.

EMC – EMC is from Johnston Protective Fabrics, is an inherently flame resistant blend of 55% FR fiber, and 45% long staple cotton. Fabrics provide NFPA 1975, ASTM 1506 and Osha’s CFR1910.269 specification complaint, state-of-the-art protection in uniforms and workwear with all the natural fabric comfort of cotton.

Epic/Nextec – Epic/Nextec is a Westex trademark for “soft shell” 88% cotton 12% high tenacity nylon, flame resistant, water resistant, wind resistant, breathable and washable fabric for use in all but the most severe outdoor conditions, making it a more useful functional garment than laminated or coated “hard shell” garments. Meets OSHA 1910.269, ASTM 1506, NFPA70E, 2112 and 1977.

Excel-FR – Excel-FR is a Bulwark trademark for FR100% cotton fabrics.
Excel-FR Comfortouch is a Bulwark trademark for 88% cotton, 12% high tenancity nylon fabrics.

FireWear - FireWear is a Springfield LLC. trademark for a FR 55%(Fibrous Flame Retardant Fiber) and 45% combed cotton blend. It is inherently flame resistant. It is available in knit and woven fabrics in a variety of colors and weights.

Indura - Indura is a Westex, Inc. trademark for FR 100% cotton fabrics made flame resistant through an ammonia cure process. The process has only a minor affect on the positive characteristics of cotton (soft hand, wear, breathability and shrinkage). The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. Indura is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.

Indura UltraSoft - UltraSoft is a Westex, Inc. trademark for an 88% Cotton/12% High Tenacity Nylon blend made flame-resistant through an ammonia cure process. The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. UltraSoft is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.

Nomex IIIa - Nomex IIIa is Dupont trademark for 93% Nomex (an aramid fiber), 5% Kevlar and 2% static dissipative fiber fabric. It is inherently flame resistant. Nomex IIIa was the FR Industry Standard, but is being replaced by fabrics and blends that offer similar protection and superior comfort characteristics.
Frequently Asked Questions | Hudson Workwear (http://www.hudsonworkwear.com/faq#n329)
:ok:

[Flyer517]

A CFI I knew got burnt quite bad after a fairly bad accident. The shock of seeing him months afterwards made me always consider my clothing from then on. I understand a lot of his injuries were a result of his polyester clothing just melting in to his skin.

A shame that in GA so many other pilots consider you a ****** if you go the full nomex flight suit route.

Flyer

[Checkboard]

How about this then, for a pilot jacket:

http://www.engineeringagencies.co.uk/ea/templates/new//phpThumb.php?src=/ea/shopimages/products/normal/ATH445.JPG&w=600&h=500&q=100&far=1&bg=FFFFFF&hash=fd42f4a02a8adb57aa369e3dcd8837b3


Flame proof fabric
Anti-static fabric (protects against sparks while refueling)
Never have to search for a separate high-vis jacket
Clear pocket for ATSIC card/ID
phone & pen pockets


Fristads Flameproof High Visibility EN 471 Jacket - Yellow

Antistatic, Flame Retardent, High Visibilty Work Jacket - New for 2009 this high specification work jacket features all the usual Fristads features. Zip up to top of collar, 2 Front pockets - one with flap, one with extra outer pocket + pen pocket. 2 inside chest pockets with zip - additional phone pocket. Double sleeve pocket with flap. Extra length on back for added protection. Adjustable at hem & cuffs.

MATERIAL/STANDARDS: this material is arc-tested and approved according to:

IEC 61482

Electric Arc Test (7 kA) exposure level. Standard for electricity and utility workers exposed to risk of electric arc explosion.

EN 531class A, B1, C1

EN531
EU standard applicable to protective clothing for workers exposed to heat. The clothing consists of outer garments made from flexible material to protect specific parts of the body. Hoods and gaiters are included but all other types of protection for the head, hands and feet are excluded.
CodeA Limited flame spread
CodeB Convective heat
CodeC Radiant heat
CodeD Molten Aluminium splash (part of EN531)
CodeE Molten Iron splash (part of EN531)
(The higher the number following the letter code the higher the standard i.e. B2 is a higher standard than B1.)

EN 1149-5

EN1149 Protective clothing – Electrostatic properties
Specifies electrostatic requirements and test methods for electrostatic dissipative protective clothing to avoid incendiary discharges. The requirement may not be sufficient in oxygen enriched flammable atmospheres. This standard is not applicable for protection against main voltages.

EN13034 Type PB[6]

EN 13034 covers the lowest level of chemical protection intended to protect from a potential exposure to small quantities of spray or accidental low volume splashes of less hazardous chemicals against which a complete liquid permeation barrier (at a molecular level) is not required.

Partial body protection Type PB[6] cover and protect only specific parts of the body (e.g. Jackets, aprons,...)


EN471 class 3 (note size XSmall Class 2)

EN471
Specification for high-visibility warning clothing
Specifies requirements for clothing signalling the user’s presence visually, in daylight and when illuminated by vehicle headlights in darkness.

[compressor stall]

If I wore that, everyone would ask me for fuel.....

We wear Massif fleece jackets. Available in safety black and black. And camo. STD issue for some parts of the US Military. the wind proofing only lasts a couple of years though.

FR Jackets, Fire and Flame Resistant Jackets | Massif Mountain Gear (http://www.massif.com/massif-gear/jackets.html)

[waren9]

Massif?

If its alright by Ali G, its alright by me.

Innit?

:E

[victor two]

I would not lose much sleep over fires in small planes. Consider the likelihood of having any accident being very small, then consider that less than 5 percent of those rare GA crashes result in a fire and the risk is pretty low. Then remember that there is a good chance that you will probably already be dead from being mangled to pieces should you have a serious GA crash so flashy suits are kinda useless anyway.
You are better off preventing your burns by making sure you fly safely and not crashing in the first place. The rest will work itself out.

[compressor stall]

I haven't been in a car crash for 25 years. Should I bother wearing a seatbelt?:rolleyes:

[MyNameIsIs]

Checkboard,
How about this then, for a pilot jacket:


It's good, until you jump into the cockpits with screens rather than steam and have it reflecting insanely well off the screens, in some cases enough to effectively not see any information on the screens. But even then you can get some pretty nasty reflections off the round dials.

White shirts are also pretty bad culprits for reflecting off glass cockpit panels.

I have had to get my coey to remove his high-vis before because reflection was so bad i couldnt read the engine instruments on the centre screen. Sectors were short enough to not normally worry about taking the vest off, putting it on, taking it off etc, so we often just left them on- not so much any more in the glass machines.

[PLovett]

For those who think Nomex racewear clothing is the go please remember that it was designed to give 30 seconds of protection. After that the heat build-up will start to burn flesh. 30 seconds is the time after which a fire marshall should be in attendance. It would be a lot longer for any aircraft crash.

[A37575]

In another life we were shown photos of burns on aircrew. Nylon wrist-watch bands were deadly because the nylon melted into the wrist. And would you believe that wearing socks that needed darning because toes were exposed, was equally horrifying to see burnt off toes. These were wartime aviation medicine photos.

Strange though that may seem, all these shocking photos paled in comparison to the 'orrible venereal disease photos of spotted and oozy dongers that we were shown as young recruits in the Air Force. Put me off for life - well almost. :ok:

[havick]

Sisley clothing... GIve them a try.

They make all the flying suits (one and two piece), for the company I fly for. In fact it's fair to say they make pretty much all the zoombags for all the major helo operators here in Australia.

[victor two]

Compressor stall, yes you should definitely wear your seatbelt. Maybe buy a full fireproof suit and nomex helmet with a nomex chin strap and some nomex jocks for the five minute drive to the shops on saturday also...... Can never be too safe now hey!

In fact, why not wear it when cooking also, just in case your fish fingers cause a firestorm in the kitchen.

[Flying Binghi]

via PLovett: ...please remember that it was designed to give 30 seconds of protection

30 seconds is still a long time when yer near a fire..:cool:





.

[Old Akro]

For the risk involved, personally I'd use the requirements for club level motorsport as a guide. No synthetics, long pants, long sleeve shirt with collar. On the basis that you need hand dexterity to get out, you could consider nomex gloves. Nomex socks are not very comfortable, but pure wool socks are easy to source. You could consider leather shoes - or indeed racing shoes. But leather soles are a poor grip surface for tarmac wear. That enhances your ability to get out of the aircraft.

The problem with fire extinguishers is that the commonly available dry powder ones don't really work. We put (from memory) six into a burning car at a racetrack and didn't permanently extinguish the fire. An aircraft fire is likely to be bigger. The old (environmentally unfriendly) BCF extinguishers are much better, but they illegal for pretty much everything except aviation and consequently are difficult / expensive to get and poisonous to breathe. Not a great option for in flight use, but probably nothing is.

[HarleyD]

Victor Two:

You clearly are one of those pprune contributors who have no problem with displaying their complete ignorance, whilst honestly believing that they are making sense.

Your facile premise that just not crashing is better than being prepared for an accident displays the mental logic of an ant, no disrespect to ants. Go ahead and drive without your seat-belt. I also expect that your car is not equipped with airbags, abs, esp, collapsible steering column, anti intrusion bars or safety glass. These are clearly unnecessary items that would cramp your cavalier attitude to hazard analysis. You most likely also have crabs, the clap and possibly HIV with that attitude.

Long sleeves and pants, natural fibres, woolen socks with the elasticized part turned down over the outside, good quality leather boots (or shoes) can all provide at least a minimal level of flash flame protection, and are no real issue to wear, and yes, I have operated in the tropics. I have also spent up to 10 hours a day in hot cockpits under a bubble sliding canopy, behind a very big hot engine, while wearing a heavy duty flight suit (dark green to minimise the reflections), helmet and gloves. Amazingly one of the other pilots used to work in dick-togs, leather sandals david clarks. (eh, JH). The fact that neither of us crashed at that period of time proves nothing but luck. At least i had some insurance against the odds.

I wear a pair of correctly fitting nomex gloves as a matter of course and have no issues with them under normal circumstances. I have worn such gloves for 38 years now and cannot consider flying without them.

There are numerous GA operations where the hazard level is higher than others and a flight suit and helmet are a cheap investment. Again I have been used to wearing them whenever i considered there was an elevated risk. I have kicked, punched and clawed my way out of an inverted burning wreck and would not have survived without the safety gear I was wearing, especially my helmet which kept me conscious in the period immediately after (final) impact despite a severe head impact. this allowed me to get out before the cockpit was completely consumed by fire. that is what they are for. In the three serious accidents that i have been involved in, in every case my life was either saved (2 of them) or my injuries significantly reduced,( the other one.)

Not every pilot needs all the fruit, but elementary precautions such as long sleeves and pants (and gloves) not can dramatically reduce post impact fire trauma, but also reduces sunburn and skin cancer.

A couple of other hints: in the event of a forced landing off airport:

take your feet off the rudder pedals just before touch down/impact, especially in aircraft with fixed nose wheel steering. Those unbroken ankles are much easier to run on.

If you smell fuel in the cabin after impact take one deep breath and hold it til you are outside (or cover your mouth with rag cloth, or even your sleeve, or gloved hand). If it all goes up while you are inhaling a lungful of fuel rich air you will do for your lungs, even if your survive the fire flash and get out of the plane, you will die a few days later.

Other people have demonstrated all of this over the years, this is 'tombstone education'. learn from their lessons.

HD

[NZScion]

Other people have demonstrated all of this over the years, this is 'tombstone education'. learn from their lessons.

Fantastic Post there HD.

We should all remember to learn from the mistakes of others - we're not going to live long enough to make them all ourselves... Those who don't want to take the advice may end up learning the hard way one day...

[A37575]

We should all remember to learn from the mistakes of others

During aviation medicine classes in the RAAF several decades ago we were shown photos of stripped wedding ring fingers. We were advised never to wear rings on fingers while flying. Literally bloody awful sights in more ways than one.

I received a mighty painful lesson to my ring finger when the ring got caught on a metal protuberance while jumping from the rear turret of a Lincoln on the ground where I had been hiding during an escape and evasion exercise at Townsville. It was only a three foot drop to the tarmac but the damage to my trapped finger hurt severely But that was military flying of course where the dangers were greater than lolling over steak and eggs in an A380 on $380,000 a year:ok:

[HarleyD]

A37575

You are only partly correct about not wearing your wedding ring for safety reasons.

I used to not wear mine whenever I was away up country in my ag flying days, but it did not always prevent injuries as a consequence. Still, one lives and learns.

HD