Jepp View and a Tablet Computer

[beechie]

Can anyone reccommend a cheap tablet computer which runs Jepp View in a useful way?

I realise the Ipad can run Jepp View however I can't justify the price when all I really want to use it for it Jepp View.

[startingout]

If you are after cheap, I used to run the Acer Aspire One for jeppview (300 after cashback) and the iPad aswell. But finally cracked it and went and put Virtual PC on my mac so I could have a much larger screen to read the enroute charts.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Why not get the Ipad and Ozrunways 2.0 and forget Jeppview?

You get a HELL of a lot more than IAL charts for a fraction of what Jeppview costs.

Talk to Jabba before you make a final decision. Was chatting to him yesterday via skype and he is ecstatic about the IPad/OzR2.0 combo.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Was chatting to him yesterday via skype and he is ecstatic about the IPad/OzR2.0 combo.

Yeah, but it doesn't take much to get Jaba excited! :E

Dr :8

[Old Akro]

Firstly, jeppview Will NOT run on iPad. Jeppesen terminal charts will using the Jepp iPad app but that is a very different thing that is basically a chart viewer.

OZrunways is a reasonable chart viewer for ASA charts, if you are happy with them.

Ozrunways - in my opinion - is not good enough for IFR flight use. yesterday I came back from the UK and tried running ozrunways from the window seat if an A380. The iPad gps is pretty patchy ( not unreasonably) but my concern is that ozrunways on the iPad will give an indication of satellite gps reception and display flight data that is completely wrong due to poor gps reception.

Ozrunways is a pretty good VFR aid - especially for local flights n areas where it can use the mobile network for assistance, but it's not in the same level as jeppview for IFR. Nor do I believe it is intended to be.

Secondly, The best tablet for jeppview is he motion CL900 or a secondhand LS800. There is a viewsonic windows tablet that looks good and an Asus one that might be ok and is pretty cheap - especially on eBay. You need to give thought to battery life and have a Power back up strategy.

[NOSIGN]

The HP TC1100 works well but you'll need a power adapter/ciggie lighter adapter and maybe a power converter for the aeroplane if you're gonna use it for more than say two hours.

[beechie]

Seem like some good options. Finding a tablet running windows seems to becoming more of an issue with googles andriod taking over!

Really I am just looking for a chart viewer and for the price looks like the iPad will be the best. While it maybe a bit more expensive than some others the iPad I will be able to use for other things.

If I need to use the other features of Jepp View I can just do so on my home or work computer.

Ozrunways looks like an excellent program but I do need to use Jeppesen charts.

[Old Akro]

The iPad is an excellent viewer. The Jepp TC app for iPad is also excellent. However, neither it nor Ozrunways have GPS support for the terminal charts. There was some talk a while ago that Jepp TC was going to add GPS tracking for the terminal charts, but currently you need Jeppview / Flitedeck for that. In the air, Flitedeck is a very powerful application. The companion programme Jeppview is for viewing enroute charts and the AIP and creating routepacks that are read by Flitedeck.

[VH-XXX]

The iPad gps is pretty patchy ( not unreasonably) but my concern is that ozrunways on the iPad will give an indication of satellite gps reception and display flight data that is completely wrong due to poor gps reception.

No it won't give an incorrect indication and using it inside the window of an A380 is not really a good guide on anything.


Ozrunways is a pretty good VFR aid - especially for local flights n areas where it can use the mobile network for assistance, but it's not in the same level as jeppview for IFR. Nor do I believe it is intended to be.

The other thread talks in detail about which GPS devices work well with the iPad so mobile network should have nothing to do with it.

[Old Akro]

The a-gps of the iPad2 uses a 3G connection to provide the almanac for the gps engine. It also uses 3G tower triangulation as some sort of aid, but I have been unable to find any real detail on how this works. The almanac lookup function is normally on board the gps engine. So, if the iPad has moved significantly since it as last used and there is no 3G coverage, it can really struggle to get a fix. This can be probably addressed with a bluetooth gps engine, but I haven't yet tried this.

The bit that concerns me us that ozrunways does not reliably give an alert that the gps signal is inadequate. This may be a shortcoming of the iPad2 more than ozrunways, but it's real. Ozrunways is a good thing and the average Vfr pilot will find it good, especially on local flights. But it's lack of loss of integrity warning is a concern for IFR use where there are less options to cross reference the validity of the location information. I have enough screen shots of patently wrong location data despite " green" gps indication to be sure about this.

There is another issue about GPS speed. Apple don't disclose the refresh rate of the iPad. It's probably 1 Hz. But the thing about the common consumer gps engines is that while they are advertised as 1 Hz, few really are. The limiting factor is processing speed. If the engine is still finishing the calc on the previous position fix, it will skip th next. Typically 1 Hz gps engines skip 1 pr 2 out of every 5 readings. GPS engines typically take 800 m sec to do the calc and output the data. 5 Hz, 10 & 20 Hz engines are dramatically better ( and significantly more expensive which is why they generally don't feature on consumer machines). I would really like to see a 5 Hz engine ( as s used on Garmin aviation GPS units). I haven't yet found one thats Bluetooth, but Gamin do nice USB & serial ones.

[Jabawocky]

Forkie :} us simple folk are easily amused.;)

Having tested the iPad with ozrunways and the Jepp TC viewer IFR to Longreach, and 90+% of it was cavok I found it no less useful in real terms than Jepp FlightDeck. My reasons for this are I never needed or wanted to use the gps on the IAL plate when I had all the info at hand on the GNS530. In fact I used to use the paper plates anyway for the approach however the tablet was great for info in the cruise and TOD info.

The beautiful thing with the iPad and the ozrwys/jepptc is how quickly you can select and find indoor change from an ERC to WAC to TAC to VTC and at the touch of a blue circle find all you need about an airstrip. This is a very powerful tool for single engine and single pilot IFR ops.

The old windows tablet was slow and clunky.:ouch:

Now onto vfr flying which has been Longreach, birdsville, Coober Pedy, Ayers Rock, Katherine, Kunanurra, Broome so far, the Ozrunways has been awesome. As Old Akro say a it brilliant for that. Especially for fi

[Jabawocky]

Finding things really fast and getting a track and distance when pulling out several WACs pencil and ruler is not a great option, and this maybe in the plane or sitting around the dinner table discussing with others the next days flying and where to go and what to see.

What this silly thin is not good at is making a post on pprune thatis bigger than the text window as I can't seem to scroll up and down inside this box :*

Overall GPS performance has been good, I have not had it connected to a 3G connection in flight, I have not installed a sim card as I can hotspot it to my phone when I need the connection and so far no serious gps issues. The bug in ozrunways is the refreshing the screen will some times be needed to relocate your blue aircraft position symbol, but there is a locate button so that works fine. I did have one anomaly yesterday that I could not resolve easily so I just shut it down and opened it up again, took a couple of seconds......of course the gns530 was the reference and not the other way around.

So far it gets the big tick from me:ok: it's a brilliant SA tool, and can be a great workload lightened if used wisely. It is not a nav system, although for vfr only it damn near is all you need(legal requirements excluded).

Back to holidays..... :)

[NOSIGN]

I like the vertical profile view feature that Jeppview/ Flitedeck has; I hope that Ozrunways V. will incorporate it someday.

It would also be useful for me to be able to choose the colour of the breadcrumbs in Ozrunways (perhaps I can but havent tried yet).

[Shagpile]

it can really struggle to get a fix.
OK this is what I've been able to find out about the iPad (3G) GPS from reading and testing:

- It does use 3G to download the almanac to get an instant fix.
- It does work outside of 3G coverage and can download the almanac like a regular GPS. I've tested this 600nm offshore and it takes about 1-2 minutes to get a fix (quicker through non-heated glass).

The iPad GPS will never be used as an IFR gps - so it's not even worth thinking about. The certification requirements are enormous and if CASA copies the FAA AC 91-78 & AC 120-76A, then showing own-ship position on a map puts the software into Type C category, which requires more certification:


c. Own-Ship Position. This AC, by itself, may not be used to install own-ship position on moving
maps on Class 1 and 2 EFB systems. However, as new guidance is developed, it may be used in
combination with this AC to add additional applications

This will obviously be translated into some form of "The pilot has comitted an offence if..." language (sigh).

That being said, I personally find it useful to be able to show your position on a map in the middle of the ocean, plot a course direct-home and see which waypoints it intersects to put into a flight plan. I fly maritime, but I'm sure other people can find equally useful uses for gps location that doesn't involve primary navigation.

The bug in ozrunways is the refreshing the screen will some times be needed to relocate your blue aircraft position symbol, but there is a locate button so that works fine.
Yep this has been fixed in a small update out in a week or two.

I like the vertical profile view feature that Jeppview/ Flitedeck has
I'm not familiar with Jeppview but a future version of ozrunways efb will have a horizontal display of airspace & terrain along-track. Will also be able to change colour/size of icons etc. in the next small update.