Waddington Airshow [Archive]

MReyn24050

30th Jun 2011, 15:50

Not forgetting of course the:-
4. REQUIRED VEHICLES
a. Minimum vehicle requirements are:
16 Sedans
14 Mini-vans
1 Full-size (15 passenger) van WITH SEATING FOR 15 PASSENGERS.
1 Six-passenger pickup truck with pintle hook, 4 doors and a/c
(NOTE: Require brake control to transport an 8,000 lb trailer if transporting off showsite)
1 12’-long flat-bed truck (1 or 1½ ton) (with smoke oil loaded)
1 Towing wrecker
(NOTE: Required for show sites where performance is greater than 5 miles from airport)
2 Golf carts for Public Affairs and Communication Personnel (request one 4-6 passenger golf cart if available)
Total vehicles required = 33 + 2 Golf Carts
b. The flatbed truck may be substituted for a trailer with low sides capable of holding six 55-gallon drums of smoke
oil.

It is a wonder that they get any bookings.

ghostnav

30th Jun 2011, 16:00

I suppose you need all those vehicles to fit the egos in.

Willard Whyte

30th Jun 2011, 16:51

I think I'd still rather have them at an airshow than the formation vuvuzelas.

Blades, not Vuvuzelas, Blades. Must remember not to call them vuvuzelas.

Lovin' the workout facility requirements in the pdf. In fact the whole document is comedy gold.

Geezers of Nazareth

30th Jun 2011, 17:37

Having watched their 'display' a few times in the USA, I just hope that the Waddington Show organisers have managed to get them a suitable parking spot somewhere distant. Their formation "salute, walk to airplane (sic), salute, climb ladder, strap-in, close canopy, salute, start engines, salute, etc" is a complete waste of time! It's like something out of 'Strictly Come Dancing'. Put them well out of the way down at the Harmston end of the airfield, give 'em a 15 minute slot for their display, and be done with it.

If they do insist on their ground display, at least get something suitable noisy to fly while their doing it. I'd suggest Harriers (gulp!) or some Saab Viggens.

I can remember a visit to the hangar at Nellis AFB in the late 80s when they'd just started on the F-16s. The tour-guide proudly explained that the TB aircraft were fully combat capable, and they they could be fully converted into front-line combat aircraft in "about 3-4 days each". He looked mightily p-ed off when I mentioned the the 'Red Arrows' could be similarly converted in about 2 hours! For the remainder of the tour he refused to speak to me or acknowledge that I was there! Suits me, Sir. Suits me just fine!

Adour

30th Jun 2011, 18:49

Geezers of Nazareth said:

I can remember a visit to the hangar at Nellis AFB in the late 80s when they'd just started on the F-16s. The tour-guide proudly explained that the TB aircraft were fully combat capable, and they they could be fully converted into front-line combat aircraft in "about 3-4 days each". He looked mightily p-ed off when I mentioned the the 'Red Arrows' could be similarly converted in about 2 hours!

Really? You thought that a 'fully combat capable' Hawk was worth mentioning in comparison to an F16? In what combat role did you envisage the Hawk or did you think that the 2 hours to load a couple of AIM-9s and the gun pod was an achievement in itself?

Help me out here, because at the moment your comment strikes me jingoistic arrogance.

LJ

High_Expect

30th Jun 2011, 18:57

Okaaaaaay..... Chill out Adour, I thought it was quite funny.

Grabbers

30th Jun 2011, 19:01

Adour

F3 pilot perchance?

Adour

30th Jun 2011, 19:09

Not F3; Jags and F/A-18.

If you guys thought it was funny, fine; I am just disappointed when I see us grandstanding and assuming that the US care, harmless in itself but the self delusion has other more serious consequences.

LJ

Yellow Sun

30th Jun 2011, 19:29

500N

30th Jun 2011, 19:30

Not often you win twice with the same piece but I think Geezer won at the time he originally said it and now with Adour.:)

I thought it was funny / good banter.

.

Small Spinner

30th Jun 2011, 20:33

Their formation "salute, walk to airplane (sic), salute, climb ladder, strap-in, close canopy, salute, start engines, salute, etc" is a complete waste of time! It's like something out of 'Strictly Come Dancing'. Put them well out of the way down at the Harmston end of the airfield, give 'em a 15 minute slot for their display, and be done with it.

If they do insist on their ground display, at least get something suitable noisy to fly while their doing it.
The Blue Angels used to do a similar routine on shutdown. I was watching them at Abbotsford BC when air traffic gave us start clearance for our own display. The crowd seemed to find 4 Olympus rapid starting something of a distraction

Good days.

YS

Got threaten with doing every parade for the next year, if I didn't stop taking the p*ss out of the Blue Angels in the good old US of A, when doing their see off party piece. They also weren't very impressed when they were upstaged by the Red Arrows, who were praised at the after show party.

Our groundies did a cracking job of emulating the see off, as we taxied out in the magnificent Rod. Landing off the pull up, bunt over and short finals to land was cracking flying, Mr Seymour:D

Brilliant days

SS

The Oberon

1st Jul 2011, 05:34

Well, having watched the Vulcan practice his display over Scampton yesterday afternoon, they are all on a loser.

reds & greens

1st Jul 2011, 06:35

Have to sadly agree.
I know the V Company, ac and crew are constrained in terms of flight envelope, but it is a sad reflection of what its capability WAS.
Seriously underwhelmed with the Thunderbirds.
I suspect the disappointment will set in early for RAFW this year...

HTB

1st Jul 2011, 07:38

If you want an early morning belly laugh, just type into your favourite search engine "military aircraft marshalling video" - sort of puts the BS into context (I know, they've been around for some time, but it makes I chuckle).

H

BEagle

1st Jul 2011, 08:17

You'll need a bucket for the first few minutes of this:

mQIVAA_zZOg

The real BS starts at about 00:59..... "These are the warriors...of the 21st century...cutting edge aerial technicians...." :yuk:

I do hope that they won't try the same commentary at Waddo; Brits would pi$$ themselves laughing!

MAN777

1st Jul 2011, 09:06

Back to original question anybody with display times available yet ??

Re comments about the "showmanship" I agree to the British it all might seem a little OTT but aren't most things American the same, just take a look at how they have glamourised "scenes of crime" with the crop of CSI TV shows !!

I saw them perform at the Turkish air show last month and they were very well received by the local crowd who were the most enthusiastic air show audience i have ever seen, they clapped and cheered at nearly everything, and after the "Solo Turk" F16 display there was an actual "pitch invasion onto the taxiway !!

Anyway back to my point, this show had most major display teams appearing, they all displayed with powerful music and enthusiastic commentary over the PA system, that is until the Red Arrows did their slot, they had no music and a typical British humour commentary that was completely over the heads of most, to say the display came across as flat was an understatement. On the Sunday I suspect someone from on high had had a word with them and hey presto the Red Arrows display was carried out with music, take off to 633 sqn theme was a classic, other tracks such as "we are the champions" and "Jerusalem" went down really well.

The Thunderbirds really know how to put on a show even if we Brits find it OTT but having seen what happened in Turkey I understand why they do it and hey whats wrong with precision movements on the ground as well as in the air:O:O

beardy

1st Jul 2011, 10:19

My goodness me, how intolerant are some people when faced with something different from their own ethos and practices. It's a bit like name calling in the playground. This is supposed to be a site for PROFESSIONAL people (see the name on the front page.)

MReyn24050

1st Jul 2011, 10:31

The Thunderbirds really know how to put on a show even if we Brits find it OTT but having seen what happened in Turkey I understand why they do it and hey whats wrong with precision movements on the ground as well as in the air

Having watched that film and the way the ground crew are doing all the walk round checks in time is there not a danger something will be missed because the individual doing the check is also concentrating on not falling "out of step" with the others. When undertaking such tasks concentration should be on the aircraft not performing a drill to please the crowd.

beardy

1st Jul 2011, 10:37

I am confident that being professionals they would have considered that possibility and catered for it.

MReyn24050

1st Jul 2011, 10:47

I am confident that being professionals they would have considered that possibility and catered for it

I am sure you are correct.

The Oberon

1st Jul 2011, 11:15

Just re-read my post about the Vulcan, what I meant to say was that everybody else was on a loser. Having said that, just had the Hunters practice over Scampton. Who needs music when they provide their own "Rhapsody in Blue"

bobward

1st Jul 2011, 11:28

Like many of you, I've see both the US teams in the UK and on their home turf. Essentially they give their public the show they want, after all the US taxpayer foots the bill.

Was anyone else at the Fairford IAT the last time the 'birds performed? I've got a picture oome of the blokes in the fire section, standing at attention alongside the taxyway and saluting as Thunderbird 1 rolled out......

I still don't know if he took them seriously or not.......but he did return it!

Enjoy the show everyone, as we have so few these days, don't we?

Willard Whyte

1st Jul 2011, 12:35

MReyn24050

1st Jul 2011, 17:56

Considering the aim for perfection shown in the video could somebody please tell me why the number on Thunderbird 5 is upside down . I am sure there must be a definite reason. :):)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/scan0001.jpg

Flap62

1st Jul 2011, 18:10

Let us not kid ourselves that the defining ethos of display teams is always professionalism.

Anyone who has listened to the, frankly, appalling RT of teams such as the Reds knows that at times, it's all about them. Their RT discipline has nothing to do with professionalism and is instead all about "the team" - there can be no other excuse for it. If they could display their, quite frankly astounding flying skills while displaying the professionalism of the average front line pilot then I would take my hat off to them.

If they would not check in for a front line 4 ship using their comedy RT then why do they think it is acceptable for the RAF's highest profile unit?

Prop Fwd

1st Jul 2011, 18:16

1200 both days in answer to original question:ok:

500N

1st Jul 2011, 18:25

"Considering the aim for perfection shown in the video could somebody please tell me why the number on Thunderbird 5 is upside down . I am sure there must be a definite reason."

Because he's the aircraft that is always upside down in the performances.

.

High_Expect

1st Jul 2011, 18:47

Flap62 did you not make the shortlist? Or are you perhaps not eligible to apply?

Mal Drop

1st Jul 2011, 18:56

My goodness me, how intolerant are some people when faced with something different from their own ethos and practices.
That would be one of the primary reasons we have a military at all.

beardy

1st Jul 2011, 19:17

That would be one of the primary reasons we have a military at all.

No it's definitely not. The military are there to further foreign policy they are the last gasp of diplomacy, they do not exist to propagate intolerance and jingoism.

tmobile

1st Jul 2011, 19:24

Quite right beardy. An unacceptable successor stalls opposite the fascinated magazine. Jingoism alerts intolerance . The shortened consent sponsors intolerance . How does jingoism worship intolerance ? The raw quiz junks an aided astronomer. Her material funds jingoism.

Romeo Oscar Golf

1st Jul 2011, 19:25

Blimey, Captain. You must be a bundle of fun to fly with.

Wizzard

1st Jul 2011, 20:38

An unacceptable successor stalls opposite the fascinated magazine. Jingoism alerts intolerance . The shortened consent sponsors intolerance . How does jingoism worship intolerance ? The raw quiz junks an aided astronomer. Her material funds jingoism

I think perhaps you've got all the right words there, you just need to play with the order they're in:hmm:

taxydual

1st Jul 2011, 20:44

Or else take more water with it.

AdLib

1st Jul 2011, 21:01

In no particular order:

1. Christ alive! I do believe Thunderbird 5 is sitting to attention!
2. tmobile is AIDU. I claim my £5.

despegue

1st Jul 2011, 21:10

Who cares about the Yankees, It will be again the Belgian F16 who will steal the show with a gracious yet extremely powerful display up to the enveloppe limits:D:ok: together with the arrows evidently.

Also the Dutch are still good of course...

And, I was impressed by the Turkish AF "Turk Solo". Well flown. very well flown. Don't know if he will do a display at Waddington though...

beardy

1st Jul 2011, 21:26

Wizzard

I think Tmobile is possibly confusing Nostrodamus with Clausewitz. Only one of which was (possibly) confused and possibly relevant. As is one of me.

E-Spy

1st Jul 2011, 21:34

@Flap62 (and possibly off thread, apologies)

Could you please explain what is so 'appalling' and without 'professionalism' about the Reds and their RT? I've done a couple of pax trips with them and found them totally professional, and although their RT may sound a little extreme at times, it was certainly functional, necessary and not in any way 'appalling'.

Slate them at your leisure, but only when you provide examples to back up your provocations.

Waddo Plumber

1st Jul 2011, 22:04

1975, or 76 - I forget - was the best Waddo show. Straight after RCDS. Joe Le'Strange doing the Vulcan display. The rest was the warn-up.

Mind you, the best station show was Coningsby 1986. Lots of ES heavy metal and Major Day in the Mk 19 Spit and a F3 doing an asymmetric pairs, but finished by a Frightning,impressing the F4/F3 fraternity doing a vertical climb out until he disappeared in the wide blue yonder. Probably had enough altitude to glide back to Binbrook

Big Sy

1st Jul 2011, 22:32

Remember B1B's at Waddo !!:D

Willard Whyte

1st Jul 2011, 23:11

8 Down:
Quite right beardy. An unacceptable successor stalls opposite the fascinated magazine. Jingoism alerts intolerance . The shortened consent sponsors intolerance . How does jingoism worship intolerance ? The raw quiz junks an aided astronomer. Her material funds jingoism.
(6-8)

Wokkafans

1st Jul 2011, 23:19

AdLib

Not quite, tmobile is Really Annoyed

RA's last post 19:11 on 25/6
tmobile joined 25/6 and first posted at 19:24

Coincidence, I think not :ok:

I look forward to him juggling his two alter egos to try to prove me wrong :D

WF

BEagle

2nd Jul 2011, 08:06

Could you please explain what is so 'appalling' and without 'professionalism' about the Reds and their RT?

At an airshow once, we planned to mix RT with background music, commentary etc. This all went fine with most display participants, but when the Arrows started that daft shouting and squealing which they do on their air-to-air frequency, we quickly had to fade it out, it was so cringingly embarassing.

Flap62

2nd Jul 2011, 08:11

E-spy,

Had the very great pleasure of flying with them a few times too. Know lots of them socially. Very nice blokes in the whole but if you just listen to them check in you will see my point. It's not the RT they would use or be allowed to use on a front line Sqn so they've changed it - they're putting it on just because "it's the reds". That is not professional - it's an affectation and sounds cheap.

TheWizard

2nd Jul 2011, 09:26

Er, what do the Red Arrows do again? Oh that's right- entertain the public.

How does the old saying go again?

"You have to be good to be gash"- point in case.

If it works for them then so what. Do you think they really care if a few 'other' aircrew don't like what they do? I highly doubt it.

Jeez, there are some serious soapbox warriors around these days :rolleyes:

Clockwork Mouse

2nd Jul 2011, 10:23

Appalling squeals and grunts? It must be difficult to pass a radio message in clear and well modulated tones when you're pulling 6G. I'd have thought, in my ignorant pongo fashion, that the important thing here (as demonstrated almost tragically in Crete) is to be timely and unambiguous. That seems pretty professional to me.

BEagle

2nd Jul 2011, 11:41

Clockwork Mouse, you clearly haven't heard them! It isn't when they're 'pulling 6G', it's even when they're simply turning final to land...... Or checking in on start.

A bit like Americans. Individually quite nice people; it's when they get into groups of about 9 that things change....:uhoh:

Flap62 has it right.

tmobile

2nd Jul 2011, 11:49

tmobile .... if you are going to insult someone, then have the sprit to do it under your old PPRuNe name and don't register a new one just for the purpose. We know!

Clockwork Mouse

2nd Jul 2011, 11:54

I've heard them many times Beagle, and hope to in the future. Yes, they do sound different and somewhat wierd, and it is probably not wise to broadcast their frequency on the tannoy during a show! However, it works in their very special world and unprofessional they are certainly not.

BEagle

2nd Jul 2011, 12:31

Wokafans, I think you've hit the nail on the head.....:rolleyes:

Clockwork Mouse, perhaps. But I really don't see the point of their 'individual' RT style. We were expecting the clipped "Smoke on...Go!" type of RT of the Black Arrows, Blue Diamonds et al, not the shouting and squealing the Reds use....

Is there a reason for it? Or is it just 'tradition'...??

Clockwork Mouse

2nd Jul 2011, 12:35

Wokafans, I'll second that!

foldingwings

2nd Jul 2011, 17:24

Christ alive! I do believe Thunderbird 5 is sitting to attention!

Can't be, you lie down to fly these things!

Foldie:ok:

Wensleydale

3rd Jul 2011, 20:16

Even the Thunderbirds commentator got it wrong at the Airshow on Sunday. She stated that a Lt Col Cunningham was the pilot in Thunderbird one when everyone knows it is Scott Tracey (with Virgil in Thunderbird 2)!!:ouch:

stumpey

3rd Jul 2011, 23:53

The Blades on Saturday, crackin display. You shouldn't be able to do that with any aircraft and walk away, but to do it as a syncro pair! :ok:

Now if only we could get four Vulcans doing that, with the note of the Hunter and the smoke of the Frecci?:ooh: (I like green)!

Thanks Waddo, like days of old. Vulcan, Hunters, Bronco, Vampires. Cars parked along the rope line with picnickers in between. No grandstands or corporate enclosures blocking the view. No annoying Tannoy were we where and no security search to get in!

Thunderbirds? Everybody knows the Angels were best - Harmony, Rhapsody, Destiny..........;)

NURSE

4th Jul 2011, 06:48

Was interesting day the flight line aircaft Dutch KDC10 was nice, but far to many cessna's with a very nice harvard tucked in. The Jet Provosts line up was really nice. Air wise Loved the Bronco, Vampire/Venom and the Hunters, Military aircraft Apache, Black Cats and Chinook. The station flypast looked a bit pathetic. Its getting more and more like a country fair with aircraft.

Finningley Boy

4th Jul 2011, 08:47

I suppose all the laughs and pee takes about the TBs has been covered, but I'd just like to mention their show commentator this year, who apart from sounding quite nice, really lived up to the American Airshow guest commentary tradition, and then some. That young lady was excruciating in her delivery, I almost expected her to cackle like the Wicked Witch of the North at the end of some sentences.:E
FB:)

PS Thought the Vulcan was best on the Saturday, the GR4 role demo was also better this year!:ok:

Non Emmett

4th Jul 2011, 08:59

"A country fair with aircraft." I like that ! Nice one. How would you sum up the Air Tattoo at Fairford these days ?

JimmyTAP

4th Jul 2011, 09:00

The commentary may have a little OTT but the Thunderbirds display itself was excellent. Fast and loud - like a good display ought to be - highlight of the show for me, followed by the Team Viper Hunters and the superb OV-10. Oh and seeing Sally B again, the Black Cats, the Belgian F-16, the Norwegian Vampires, the RN Merlin , the Chinook etc. A great day out and thank to all involved for their efforts.

NURSE

4th Jul 2011, 09:35

Haven't had chance to see RIAT maybe if it wasn't at opposite end of the country I might go.

"Country fair with aircraft" is a comment I heard more than once from different people I met most of whom have attended for many years.

sluf goat

4th Jul 2011, 10:52

"Country fair with aircraft"

Spot on, an increasing amount of commercial tat each year with an ever decreasing presence of military aircraft. :(

Marham69

4th Jul 2011, 11:12

Beagle opined....

Ø Clockwork Mouse, you clearly haven't heard them! It isn't when
Ø they're 'pulling 6G', it's even when they're simply turning final to
Ø land...... Or checking in on start.A bit like Americans. Individually
Ø quite nice people; it's when they get into groups of about 9 that
Ø things change.... Flap62 has it right.

Bang to rights, Herren Beagle and Flap 62. A point I tried to make with the nomenclature of No 32 Sqn. None of this egotistical, self promoting buffoonery has any place in the Royal Air Force. What next? No 56 (The Red Rippers) Sqn to be gazetted?
I know more than a few ex COs of the latter who would cringe at the very thought.
The past deeds and glorious achievements of the Royal Air Force do not require any modern ‘mincing up’ to maintain the tradition.
Immensely proud yet understated should be the behavioural standard (apart from the customary inter Sqn shenanigans on Dining-In evenings J).
Always was, always should be.

bobward

4th Jul 2011, 11:54

As a member of the "Great British Public", may I offer sincere thanks to all the guys and gals at Waddington for organising this weekend's airshow? Despite all the overstretch, months away on duty in different war zones, cost cutting etc, they still do this each year.

I'm afraid I was very underwhelmed by the Thunderbirds. It took them over five minutes from taxying out to getting airborne. During that we had swells of martial music, and Leonard Nimoy spouting Vulcan mysticism.....

To my amateur eyes, the flying, though close, was very pedestrian, with most of the turns being made over Grimsby..... It's a very different show to the sort of the in the Arrows, Frecce, or Patrouille. Yet, on their home turf, the crowds go wild..... maybe it's because, unlike us, they don't know the difference?

Now off to dig myself a slit trench to avoid the incoming that's bound to follow.:sad::rolleyes:

Clockwork Mouse

4th Jul 2011, 11:57

M69
"Egotistical, self-promoting buffoonery."
Now is the Thunderbirds' display and commentary the sort of understated professionalism which you might prefer the RAFAT to adopt?

minigundiplomat

4th Jul 2011, 12:25

Was at RIAT last year [as part of a display crew] and thought the Patrouille stole the show - team wise. The undoubted star was the F22 but the commentary was awful - like David Brent crossed with some form of overly patriotic simpleton.

AirShowJunkie

4th Jul 2011, 13:19

I also found the F22 Commentary at RIAT rather cringeworthy. Most of the people around me were sniggering away. What i did enjoy was the boasts of how great each of the Fast Jets were; F/A-18, Typhoon, Griphen, Rafale etc. It should have been decided, shirts off in the car park. Bit more exciting than some X Factor reject warbling away like this year :ok: