Pilot fined after landing helicopter in village car park

[helihub]

from this report (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/need-to-read/2011/06/27/helicopter-pilot-fined-after-landing-helicopter-in-village-car-park-91466-28948169/)

A helicopter pilot banned from taking off until the chopper he landed in a village car park in an emergency manoeuvre was checked out was fined after he ignored the instruction.

Christopher Kiley, 57, was flying to Monmouth on March 14 when he feared an engine problem after the clutch light came on.

He landed his bright red ’copter on an unused car park at the end of Station Road, in Treorchy, Rhondda, instead of following protocol and landing it on a playing field just metres away, before walking to the nearby CK Stores to make an emergency call to his engineer.

Following a telephone conversation, he went back to the helicopter ready for take off after completing the necessary inspections but by that time the police had arrived, landing their helicopter close by.

The Civil Aviation Authority also got involved and following a discussion Kiley was banned from taking off until they deemed the craft fit to fly and issued a notice to that effect.

Simon Emslie, prosecuting at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court on behalf of the Civil Aviation Authority, said: “He was told not to fly the helicopter out.”

He said that the defendant’s engineer had tried to make contact with him to tell him not to fly the machine.

“But the defendant had done exactly what he was told not to do by signing the notice [to say the craft was fit to fly] himself.”

The court heard that Kiley, of Caswell Bay, Swansea, had not wanted to leave the helicopter where it was for fear of damage being caused to it.

The court heard he had endangered the lives of the people living in Treorchy because if there had been a problem with the engine the helicopter would have just dropped “like a brick” and there would have been no way to land.

Martin James, an investigator with the Civil Aviation Authority, said: “He put his own interests before the people of Treorchy.”

Kiley, representing himself, said that he had made the “split second decision” to land on the car park because of the troubles he knew would result in recovering the helicopter from an enclosed playing field.

Kiley, who has flown planes since 1982 and helicopters since 1993, said he had never been in trouble before and his licence had been suspended since the incident.

“I was stupidly overcome by the real worry that if I left the helicopter there overnight it would have been completely vandalised,” he said.

“I had visions of it being completely wrecked.”

Kiley admitted failing without reasonable excuse to comply with a direction when he appeared at Pontypridd Magistrates Court and was committed to Merthyr Crown Court for sentence.

Judge John Curran fined Kiley £2,000 and ordered him to pay £3,873.19 costs with a £15 victim surcharge within 28 days.

additional note - The press report did not note that Mr C Kiley is the proprietor of "C K Stores" mentioned - corroborated by this report (http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/96998/supermarket-to-be-sold-early-in-the-new-year.aspx)

[eivissa]

Yes, that is what helicopters do if the clutch fails, or the engine, or the tail rotor..."they drop like bricks" :ugh:

[206Fan]

"they drop like bricks"I was actually waiting for those exact words to appear in the report while I was reading through it. It should be made mandatory for News Reporters to read up on how to operate / fly aircraft and what they will do in emergencies so they can get their dam wording right in the likes of these reports.

[Gordy]

before walking to the nearby CK Stores

Would it be fair to assume that Christopher Kiley, 57, is the owner of the nearby CK Store, especially after reading the linked article.

As an outsider reading between the lines....I suspect there never was anything wrong with the helicopter. Seems to me like he landed to check on his business and someone complained, hence he fabricated the "maintenance issue"

[Savoia]

.
The phrase "No sh*t Sherlock" springs to mind!

[OEI-Dave]

Caught trying to play the loaded executive. :ugh:

[JTobias]

Hmmmmm

Can't see the problem personally !

Joel :p

[ifresh21]

That is funny if he did own the store.

If not, seems wrong to reprimand him to that extent. Im not from the UK though.

[stringfellow]

yet another depressing use of public resources (but an amusing tale!!)

[parabellum]

On the other hand, if there was nothing wrong with the helicopter and he just wanted to check his shop then surely he would have used the adjacent playing field? Was he actually, as he stated, considering the possibility of a road recovery?:confused:

[md 600 driver]

a quick check on google shows lots of the areas around there had a ck store


We currently operate 22 stores located in Llandeilo, Pontyberem, Newcastle Emlyn, Penclawdd, Gwaun Cae Gurwen, Cwmbwrla, Sketty, Cimla, High Street ( Swansea ), Gowerton, Cwmllynfell, St Davids, Fishguard, Hakin, Waunarlwydd, Birchgrove, Bargoed, Aberystwyth, Treorchy, Ladywell Centre (Newtown) Dyfatty (Swansea) & Llandysul.

[Torquetalk]

yet another depressing use of public resources

Hardly. The fine and costs awards should be a very welcome contribution to the [largely fixed] cost base of the UK justice system.

TT

[Jeff Hall]

I notice the reports don't say who owns the 'unused car park'.. Private or council?

Maybe he had the err owners permission to be there? (I'm guessing not but hey ho).
Maybe due to local knowledge he knew the land was unused and therefore less -or no -chance of there being stray public in it?
Whilst it would appear to be open to public access (Plod certainly managed to park right next to the helicopter) there is nothing in the report suggesting the site wasn't actually suitable for landing into in general.

Rightly or wrongly he chose the nice smooth tarmac/concrete space with road access - possibly and/or arguably the better choice than a potentially sloping, grass field with god knows what hidden under the grass etc, had he gone for the 'safe' field who know's if the thing wouldn't have clipped trees or rolled on a dodgy sloping, boggy ground etc landing.. Not knowing the area but faced with the choices I think many of us may well have made the same choice, but stuck with it, played the hero and waited for the man with the spanners to say it was ok and fly out again... He might not have got into trouble then!

What I can't undertand is how plod simply didnt just park his van close enough that he wouldn't have been able to spin the blades, voila he's imobilised the poorly heli...

Had the poor chap owned the car park I'd have loved to have seen the outcome then, would they still have been able to prosecute? (I guess they'd have found something) To me it sounds like a certain element of jealous envy - rich guy landing nr his supermarket - we don't like it, lets make sure he doesn't do it again.

In typical Pprune fashion though, where were the claims of avoiding schools / hospitals etc with the about to fall from the sky doomed R44...

[Bravo73]

(Plod certainly managed to park right next to the helicopter)

What I can't undertand is how plod simply didnt just park his van close enough that he wouldn't have been able to spin the blades, voila he's imobilised the poorly heli...



A small point of order but according to the report, the 'plod' also arrived by helicopter:


...but by that time the police had arrived, landing their helicopter close by.

[Jeff Hall]

Bravo73, I agree the text of the news story states the police arrived by helicopter (However no mention of where they 'parked' theirs other than close by) however, a photograph in the linked news stories clearly shows a police van and car parked to the side of the R44..

I guess the real question for us pilots is, what was he actually charged with...

Landing where he did, endangering the public, breach of rule 5 etc etc.

or

Illegally? making a declaration with respect to the airworthiness of the A/C and flying it away when instructed not to do so?

(Not quite sure what 'law' would have been broken here tho, he apparently suspected a fault, using the knowledge surely imparted by having an R44 type rating he determined that the suspected fault wasn't present, so took off again - I must go re-read my air-law books to see how a common police officer [or anyone else who's not a:a licensed engineer or b:CAA, EASA or Robinson] can revoke the CofA of an A/C until visited by 'said licensed engineer)

[griffothefog]

If.........

He declared a "small technical problem" so he could land next to his shop then he is an idiot, but I doubt that.

No wonder the country is broke.... :{

[birrddog]

Can't recall my UK CAA airlaw, though FAA and SA CAA air law states if a landing is made as a result of a declared emergency, which gives the pilot autthority to land anywhere, including restricted areas, the aircraft can not be moved unless cleared by the relevant accident investigation authority, e.g. NTSB.

[Gordy]

though FAA and SA CAA air law states if a landing is made as a result of a declared emergency, ..... the aircraft can not be moved unless cleared by the relevant accident investigation authority, e.g. NTSB.

Technically not in FAA world----one has to have an "accident" at which point NTSB 830 rules apply and you cannot move the wreckage.....In the scenario of a "precautionary landing" there is no such rule....unless of course I am mistaken....?

[FSXPilot]

Has anyone looked up the reg on ginfo? On there it says the helicopter is owned by someone else entirely. All very odd.

[Runway101]

On there it says the helicopter is owned by someone else entirely.

Syndicate, co-ownern, holding company, operator, friend, proxy, family, etc. Could have many reasons, certainly not odd.

I had to go down on a hill in Germany a few years ago (was transiting over Germany from Switzerland) because the LHS door popped open. Later back at base I checked what would have been the correct action taken for Germany, and made a note of exact location, time, etc, just in case someone comes knocking on my door. Turns out I'd have had to introduce myself to the owner of the land (how'd I ever find out who owns the hill??), leave my contact details, the details of my insurance in case they found out later I caused damage, but after that I would have been free to take off again. Some German pilot I spoke to later that day told me he'd have also called local police, just to tell them everything is fine and where to reach him. If I'd have gone by the (German) book, passengers would have had to leave in a taxi until I figured out what to do and where to find the right farmer for my hill, just to leave my contact details.

[FSXPilot]

I just find it odd that the newspapers are so crap at reporting news and don't do any research.

Likewise it seems you didn't bother looking either or you would have seen it appears to belong to one individual. As for the incident I would imagine that this is not the first time or otherwise how come there was such a swift police involvement. Usually they have trouble finding there own arses so why did they get so quickly involved in this incident?
Perhaps the pilot has previously upset some one would be my first guess but I doubt we will ever know as the journalist reporting does not seem to have spent any time trying to interview anyone at the place where it happened.

Also quite surprised the CAA got a conviction usually when they get top court they lose as they are mostly incompetent pen pushers.

[Heliport]

The court heard .... if there had been a problem with the engine the helicopter would have just dropped “like a brick” and there would have been no way to land. Why does the CAA allow their representatives to give courts such melodramatic prejudicial nonsense? :(

Martin James, an investigator with the Civil Aviation Authority, said: “He put his own interests before the people of Treorchy.”Not just people on the ground but "the people of Treorchy.” :rolleyes:
Introducing a local element is an old trick often used by politicians trying to win over an audience, but inappropriate for someone who is supposed to be an objective investigator.

[Helinut]

Thanks Heliport for those thoughts which seem very apposite.

The prosecuting lawyer seems to be verging on the untruthful when he said those things: certainly overegging the danger and distinctly partial. Are prosecutors still meant to be officers of the court? Even the CAA are unable to change the laws of physics, to avoid autorotation existing. A helicopter without a working/connected power source ain't a brick. The CAA itself acknowledges that by having different SE low flying rules for heles rather than planks: "land without danger to persons or property" compared with "land clear of the congested area".

They should have just stuck to the offence that he was convicted of which was a serious abdication of his responsibility as a pilot.

None of which makes the pilot's version of events any more likely.

It would be interesting to know whether this pilot had a "history" with the feds.

[topendtorque]

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Fallacy of Argumentum Ad Hominem (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Fallacy+of+Argumentum+Ad+Hominem&FORM=QSRE7)

Hmmm take your pick, the freeloaders of the world; greenies, Garnauts, carbon tax despots etc all do, why not some idiot Aviation investigator as such below?



but inappropriate for someone who is supposed to be an objective investigator.


But this bit is exceptionally irresponsible.



helicopter would have just dropped “like a brick”


I mean he should have said, 'well it'll come down like a brick s***house'

The pilot would then have instantly known had any of it hit the fan on the way past that he would be in real - big - trouble.:{

As a side issue this;-


I had to go down on a hill in Germany a few years ago


Reminds me of a chief pilot I once knew whose favourite coffee cup, which he used to nurture lovingly in his gloved hand as he covertly glanced around with his twinkling grey eyes, was inscribed with the words,

"I go down easy"

I never could figure out why for such a good pilot.

[Savoia]

.

Caught trying to play the loaded executive.

In an R44?

Sorry, but what is the issue here; that the car park is in a built-up area or he didn't have permission to use it or both?

[Heliport]

The fine and costs awards should be a very welcome contribution to the [largely fixed] cost base of the UK justice system.

The fine will, but the £3,873.19 costs will go to the CAA.
I assume that's what the CAA claimed it cost them. :confused:

[Robbo Jock]

Savoia, according to the report, he was fined for "failing without reasonable excuse to comply with a direction".

He said he'd made a 'precautionary' landing because he was concerned about the clutch light. He was subsequently told, either by his engineer or by the CAA (or both), that the aircraft was unsafe and was grounded until it had been inspected by an engineer (the CAA apparently "issued a notice to that effect"). Having been told this/issued with the notice, he took off anyway. And that decision cost him close on six grand.

[bolkow]

I am sure this is the same individual who annoyed the police when he followed a cessna aircraft (Cambrian Air) also out of swansea that crashed into a field in the Gorseinon area last year, and retrieved and flew an injured person from that aircraft out and away as the emergency services, police ambulance and fore brigade arrived, including the local air ambulance.

[griffothefog]

Classic.... sounds like a flying anorak.

[bolkow]

I do believe its and R22 that he flies around in.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icwales2/jun2011/8/7/christopher-kiley-s-helicopter-in-treorchy-155177331.jpg

[Savoia]

.
Robbo thanks. I did read that but also noted that in his remarks the driver was defending his decision to land in the car park as opposed to a playing field, hence the query, and wondering whether he was being prosecuted for that also.

[Thomas coupling]

He broke the law on two counts:
He was guilty of admitting to fly a Robinson helicopter.
Secondly - he admitted flying it close to other human beings who might have been accidentally contaminated with the Robinson bug. Must have been toptobottom:8

[bolkow]

well if thats the chopper he has upgraded, My God!

[Agaricus bisporus]

A helicopter without a working/connected power source ain't a brick.

It is if its a single and in the deadman's curve which is possibly/probably what the expert witness was referring to perfectly correctly. The usual and expected selective reporting out of context produces the above shock-horror revelation.

[Bronx]

He landed his bright red ’copter (sic) on an unused car park at the end of Station Road, in Treorchy, Rhondda, instead of following protocol and landing it on a playing field just metres away,

Protocol? :confused:

What protocol says that British pilots making a precautionary landing are required to land on a playing field instead of an unused car park just metres away?


griffothefog Classic.... sounds like a flying anorak.
According to Google, in March 2010 Chris Kiley the pilot in this story heard a distress call from a Cessna when flying in the local area and immediately went to see if he could help. He found the Cessna upside down in a field. The FI and student both had facial injuries, thankfully minor. The FI stayed with the Cessna while he flew the student to hospital. He was airborne just before the first of the emergency services arrived. The Ambulance Service then took the FI to the hospital, the report doesn't say whether by road or air ambulance.
I'd say that shows he's public spirited, not an anorak.

bolkow well if thats the chopper he has upgraded, My God!
Do you own a helicopter?
I mean a proper helicopter.
I know from your posts that you're an enthusiastic spotter and fly RC helicopters.

[Vizsla]

Its a wonder that the Treorchy Mens Choir didn't claim for loss of rehearsal time

[JTobias]

Give the man a medal !

Joel :p

[FSXPilot]

he deserves one it takes either an eijit or a brave man to fly a Robbo.

[bolkow]

well bronyx, as a matter of fact I used to not that I see the significance. Even learned in the good old USA at Columbus Ohio started on a jetranger.
Changed profession since then, and to be frank if the internet was available in the eighties I'd have been on a site such as this then. I once landed a jet ranger in a bob evans car park. Silly? Yes, I did not get any bother, but most of us have evolved safety wise since the mid eighties.

[SpeedbirdXK8]

He lost the case because he decided to defend himself, simple. The Courts don't like it because the bloke in the street doesn't speak legal speak or fully understand the law and and the workings of the Court.:ugh:

[Legalapproach]

My understanding is that the CAA issued a notice prohibiting the aircraft from flight (until presumably signed off by an engineer) under their powers contained in paragraph 232 (2) of the ANO. The prosecutor was not experienced in aviation matters/law doubtless giving rise to the dramatic comments, the defendant represented himself.

The case originally came before the magistrates who considered that their powers were inadequate (maximum fine £5,000) The case was committed to the Crown Court for sentence where the maximum is an unlimited fine or 2 years imprisonment

[stringfellow]

so this chap employs lots of people in a land begging on its knees, helps a fellow aviator in distress, and this is how he is treated?? this culture is why britain plc is bankrupt. and doubtless all the pen pushers will quote this law and that law but this chap pays your wages and this is how he is treated. look at the big picture.

[Phil Space]

And South Wales plod don't have better things to do with their helicopter.

No doubt Silsoe Sid and his ex military chums on another jolley to have a go at us recreational chopper pilots.

If I was this guy I'd sell the shops and move to somewhere more friendly.

The good news in Norfolk is the police helicopter is no longer seen in the skies:ok:

[krypton_john]

I see this clown is in the news again. What do you have to do to get your ticket pulled these days?

Millionaire businessman causes hours of disruption at Heathrow by flying helicopter into airspace - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11977700/Millionaire-businessman-causes-hours-of-disruption-at-Heathrow-by-flying-helicopter-into-airspace.html)

[Senior Pilot]

I see this clown is in the news again. What do you have to do to get your ticket pulled these days?

Millionaire businessman causes hours of disruption at Heathrow by flying helicopter into airspace - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11977700/Millionaire-businessman-causes-hours-of-disruption-at-Heathrow-by-flying-helicopter-into-airspace.html)

Already discussed here. (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/569877-uk-caa-prosecution-infringement.html)

[SilsoeSid]

bolkow;

I am sure this is the same individual who annoyed the police when he followed a cessna aircraft (Cambrian Air) also out of swansea that crashed into a field in the Gorseinon area last year, and retrieved and flew an injured person from that aircraft out and away as the emergency services, police ambulance and fore brigade arrived, including the local air ambulance.


Bronx;
According to Google, in March 2010 Chris Kiley the pilot in this story heard a distress call from a Cessna when flying in the local area and immediately went to see if he could help. He found the Cessna upside down in a field. The FI and student both had facial injuries, thankfully minor. The FI stayed with the Cessna while he flew the student to hospital. He was airborne just before the first of the emergency services arrived. The Ambulance Service then took the FI to the hospital, the report doesn't say whether by road or air ambulance.
I'd say that shows he's public spirited, not an anorak.

:confused:
Any chance of a link to the connection between that incident and CK?
:confused:

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5422ecd540f0b61346000135/Reims_Cessna_F172F_Skyhawk__G-ASWL_08-10.pdf

BBC News - Light plane ends up on its roof near M4 at Swansea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8548619.stm)

[1helicopterppl]

same bloke....Jones is a good Welsh name mind....griffothefog has it about right......I****, & he's still flying.......check flying history & previous machines....