European Legislation For The Licensing Of Pilots

[Domwilko]

Today I received the above letter from the CAA informing me of the proposed changes to Flight Crew Licensing due to new European legislation.

As usual with the CAA, the letter was about as much use as tits on a fish, with an overwhelming caveat of "it's up to you to try and understand this bollocks and if you don't, then tough!"

I followed the advice of the letter and went to CAA website to see what it's all about. Having read the 'painful' 35-page document (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/c-May2011v3.pdf) I'm now even more confused!

All I want to know is what I have to do, if anything, to keep my licence or get it exchange for whatever new, fangled European licence is being issued.

My UK CAA PPL(Aeroplanes) was issued in 1997 before JAA-PPL were invented. It states that the licence will remain valid for life, unless revoked, suspended or varied and that I can exercise the privileges as long as I hold a valid medical certificate. It also states that I can exercise the privileges at night. So basically, in my eyes, I hold a CAA PPL(A) with night rating with a SEP(LAND) rating. I thought that my current licence was valid in all European member countries.

Reading the documentation, it constantly refers to NPPL(A) - (National PPL(A)), which is where I become confused, is my CAA PPL(A) now being referred to as a NPPL(A) or is that something different altogether?

Also, if I read the documentation correctly, I actually will require 2 different types of licence to continue flying the current aircraft which I fly because a PA28 is EASA aircraft, whereas the YAK 52 is a non-EASA aircraft because it's on a Permit-to-fly. Is this correct?

Having got to the end of the document, it does little to tell you exactly what you need to do to keep or exchange your licence.

Am I the only thick person here or does someone else actually understand this? If you do understand it and can explain it to me in plain, simple English, then I'd very much appreciate it!

Thanks,

Dom

[bookworm]

All I want to know is what I have to do, if anything, to keep my licence or get it exchange for whatever new, fangled European licence is being issued.

Between April 2012 and April 2015, you will need to convert your UK PPL into an EASA Part-FCL PPL. Provided you have more than 70 hours, this is a substantially paperwork exercise. The CAA fee is not yet set.

Reading the documentation, it constantly refers to NPPL(A) - (National PPL(A)), which is where I become confused, is my CAA PPL(A) now being referred to as a NPPL(A) or is that something different altogether?

Something different altogether. The NPPL(A) and national (i.e. UK CAA issued) PPL(A) are different things. You have the latter.

Also, if I read the documentation correctly, I actually will require 2 different types of licence to continue flying the current aircraft which I fly because a PA28 is EASA aircraft, whereas the YAK 52 is a non-EASA aircraft because it's on a Permit-to-fly. Is this correct?

No, the non-EASA aircraft can also be flown on an EASA Part-FCL licence.

[waldopepper42]

"substantially paperwork exercise"

Yes, except that as the holder of PPL(A) with night and IMC ratings and a lapsed FAA IR:

I will need to "demonstrate to an instructor my ability to use radio navigation aids".

They must think I've forgotten where the "on" switch is! :suspect:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Personally I think that Cliff Whittaker's letter is very clear.

It clearly states that CAA does not know what's happening, is p***d off about this, and desperately wishes that EASA would sort it's act out and actually publish some clear and workable regulations that they can start trying to enforce.

It will be very interesting if, say, at some point somebody flies an EASA (G-registered) PA28 on the non-expiring CAA licence that was perfectly legal for the previous 20 years. Is anybody really going to have the nerve to prosecute them and risk the whole mess being exposed in court? My money's on any "offender" getting a firmly worded "don't be a naughty boy" letter and no more than that.

G

[BEagle]

Any document which runs to 35 pages to explain the changes only proves that the forthcoming legislation is overly complex and unsafe.

Yes, except that as the holder of PPL(A) with night and IMC ratings and a lapsed FAA IR:

I will need to "demonstrate to an instructor my ability to use radio navigation aids".


Quite what a 'Chief Flying Instructor' is supposed to mean to anyone who is not a member of a flying club is unclear. Nevertheless, when I was a CFI I would unhesitatingly have signed off the requirement on production of logbook / licence evidence of an IMC Rating - it is implicit in having obtained the Rating that you have demonstrated the use of radio navigation aids to the satisfaction of a Flight Examiner. Surely that's good enough?

Incidentally, the 'paperwork exercise' currently includes the payment of £181... For absolutely no new privileges.

[BillieBob]

Quite what a 'Chief Flying Instructor' is supposed to mean to anyone who is not a member of a flying club is unclear.Even more so next year when a flying club (a.k.a. an ATO providing training for only the LAPL, PPL, SPL and BPL) will be required to have a Head of Training but not a Chief Flying Instructor.

[1.3VStall]

Like Domwilko I have a UK CAA PPL(A) valid for life (unless revoked, suspended or varied), although I renew my medical and have my biennial flight with an instructor under JAR rules.

Is the licence going to be revoked in the future, and if so by whom - the CAA? Am I then going to have to fork out £181 for an EASA replacement? If so I am megga pi**ed off!

[22/04]

IMHO your licence won't be revoked- it simply will not give your the privliege of flying an aircraft with an EASA certificate of airworthiness after either April 2014 or 2015, depnding what you fly. If you want to fly a Tiger Moth or an airciraft on a permit to fly, it will remain valid.

Note that if you are resident/based in Europe and wish to fly an foreign registered aircraft (e.g. N-Reg) you will be required to hlod an EASA licence as well as any qualification that would othersie allow you to fly that e.g. an FAA licence.

[neilgeddes]

Yes, I read it that way too. Having a UK CAA PPL if, after April 2012, I want to hire an I- reg C172 in Italy (for P1 seaplane flying at Como) I'll need a full EASA licence :ugh:

[ALTSEL]

A chap I know who will be 80 next year and holds a NPPL wonders what the implications will be for him. Does anybody know please??

[BEagle]

ALTSEL, he can continue to use it until 8 Apr 2015 - by which time if he wants to fly EASA aircraft (e.g. PA28 / C152) he will need to have converted it to a LAPL(A). But if he wants to fly purely non-EASA aircraft (e.g. Bulldog, Chipmunk, Tiger Moth), he can carry on using his NPPL.

The latest version of the European Licensing Document (version 4) plus corrected/amended FAQs will shortly be available on the CAA website.

[IO540]

Even more so next year when a flying club (a.k.a. an ATO providing training for only the LAPL, PPL, SPL and BPL) will be required to have a Head of Training but not a Chief Flying Instructor.

Aren't both of those posts essentially honorary / self appointed anyway?

[ShyTorque]

Today I received the above letter from the CAA informing me of the proposed changes to Flight Crew Licensing due to new European legislation.

As usual with the CAA, the letter was about as much use as tits on a fish, with an overwhelming caveat of "it's up to you to try and understand this bollocks and if you don't, then tough!"

I received the same letter and my conclusion is precisely the same as yours!

[cessnapete]

I have the 'Language Proficiency English' endorsement on my JAA ALTP.
On my last IR/MEP/SEP proficiency check the Examiner ticked the 'Level 6 Expert' box on the SRG1119 Form he sent to CAA.
I have yet to receive the CAA Level 6 Endorsement for my Licence. This is required by some ICAO countries when you apply for an endorsement to use a UK Licence in their airspace.
I have E- mailed the CAA but have had no reply, any ideas on the subject???

[Jumbo Driver]

I have been level 6 since October 2008 and have had no written acknowledgement from the CAA. It seems to me that it is a matter only of their internal record.

Incidentally, I rather think this has been done to death elsewhere in this forum ...

JD
:)

[BillieBob]

Aren't both of those posts essentially honorary / self appointed anyway?Nope, as of April next year the post of Head of Training is a legal requirement for all Approved Training Organisations, as it has been for FTOs and TRTOs for the last 10 years or so. the post of Chief Flight (not Flying) Instructor will be a legal requirement only for ATOs providing instruction for other than the LAPL, PPL, SPL and BPL. Both postholders will be subject to CAA approval on behalf of EASA

[mad_jock]

They don't disclose your language level unless hassled alot.

When you send your request for information release they don't include it either when replying to the requesting CAA. When questioned on this fact they apparently want 2 seperate requests each of course costing you money.

[robin]

So what's the point of getting your examiner to sign your language proficiency as being level 6 if the CAA ignore it?

[mad_jock]

Because it ticks the box for complying with the english prof rules.

They don't ignore it they put it on file.

The EASA licenses require to have it on.

[canonfodder]

I received the same letter yesterday and enjoyed the way the CAA washed their hands of all responsibility on a single side of A4; it's obviously all somebody else's fault, and nothing to do with them, they are just following orders. :D

If we want to remain legal it's up to us, which is fine - no change there. However, I'm surprised at the CAA's lack of backbone which is shown in this letter; actually I'm not. :(

I have been a CAA PPL(A) holder since 1991 and have enjoyed the lifetime privileges offered, even through the JAA rigmarole.

This is yet another nail in the coffin for private flying in the UK. :mad:

Good luck all,
CF

[BEagle]

The CAA has now released Version 4 of this document – see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/e-June2011v4.pdf plus the amended/corrected FAQs at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/f-FAQJune2011-linked%20to%20paperv4.pdf

The changes from Version 3 are in italics.