Libya Redux

[ORAC]

Ares: Unafraid But Not Alone (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a47bcf35a-5ff3-4bd6-8ca6-46ae8dec0bc8&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest)

It takes three people 25-30 minutes to bomb a target in Libya, under current rules of engagement and procedures used by the Royal Air Force. The Eurofighter Typhoon has used weapons in combat for the first time in Operation Ellamy (the UK's part of the Libya war), but exclusively in "mixed-pair" operations with two-seat Tornado GR4s, XI Squadron executive officer Sqn Ldr Rupert Joel said at the Paris show on Sunday.

The Typhoon carries the Litening pod but has not self-designated targets, Joel said. The only air-to-surface weapon carried by the Typhoon in Libya is the Enhanced Paveway 2 1,000 pound dual-mode (laser and GPS/INS) guided bomb: the new Paveway IV, a 500-pound weapon designed to reduce collateral damage while providing the same effects (via improved accuracy) is not ready.

Most of the Typhoon attacks have used the weapon in GPS/INS mode, Joel said, because that is more accurate than laser, according to Joel. However, lasers on both the Typhoon and Tornado are active so that a weapon can be "walked off" the target if the ground situation changes after release.

Six Typhoons and 12 Tornados are currently deployed to Gioia del Colle in Italy as part of Ellamy. Joel was one of the first pilots deployed with XI Squadron, which is to be relieved by 3 Squadron next week.

What was not up for discussion was the reasons for the lack 0f self-lasing by the Typhoon, even though that capability was first supplied to the RAF under Project Gordian in 2008 and is routinely used in weapons testing. (The rival Rafale flew in mixed-pair operations for its first operational tours in Afghanistan but is now self-lasing.)

Joel said that the mixed-pair operation provided some benefiots, inclyding situational awareness from the Typhoon's defensive aids subsystem and the ability to take advantage of "20 years of air to ground experience" in the Tornado force. Another cited advantage was the ability of three people to cross-check the RoEs, including positive identification and collateral damage checks.

Further questions were cut off by the attending RAF press representative, Sqn Ldr Bruno Wood, who repeatedly interrupted to remind the media that Joel, as a pilot, was not qualified to discuss the reasons behind operational decisions, said that a question about how targets were designated was "irrelevant", and told one reporter that he was being "rude" by asking questions that were beyond Joel's area.

This Zampolit-like control raised an interesting question: if the RAF considers Joel qualified to drop bombs on people from a GBP73 million aircraft, why does it not want him to answer questions without getting live directions on-stage?

[Lonewolf_50]

This Zampolit-like control raised an interesting question: if the RAF considers Joel qualified to drop bombs on people from a GBP73 million aircraft, why does it not want him to answer questions without getting live directions on-stage?

Question is a non sequitur.

The information battle is different from the kinteic battle.

I will say this as simply as I can.

The questions coming from reporters are often at a level that the pilot doesn't operate at.
Opinions are in the province of the political realm. The pilot is being interrogated by the media as a Subject Matter Expert in tactical performance. That is his authority, and his lane, and his pay grade.

Media, of course, want lots of answers to lots of questions, not all of which are in that pilot's competence. We all have opinions, but when he speaks officially, he is required to remain within his area of competence. Opinion is not his lane, beyond tactical and technical issues.

Dealing with the media takes task and mission specific training. Dropping bombs takes different training. This is because the media battle is part and parcel of the political battle. The pilot is not trained (yet, it seems) for the political battle. So, someone qualified is on hand for that mission.

Opinion on a lot of what the media asks lies within the remit of the political lane, or higher brass.

Simples, really. ;)

[Postman Plod]

So if the pilot isn't "competent" to deal with the press, why put him in the position? Why not leave it to someone who is "competent"?

Or is it just that the pilot isn't trained in media spin, distraction, diversion and disinformation, and would most likely tell it like it is, rather than how our masters would like the great unwashed to believe it is?

[Jig Peter]

As reported by Ares, Sqn.Ldr Wood sounds like an over-promoted drill instructor. (Perhaps these days, what used to be acting unpaid Corporals have been "up (or over-) graded").
(Above in jest, so hold yer 'orses).

More seriously, the "minder" seems to have got right up Ares' nose, which doesn't speak well for his training in the gentle art of PR - whatever one feels about a Press Conference and the journos' "undisciplined" cries for attention, the object is surely to "control things gently" and get the Service's point across as favourably as possible ...
In this case, Press 1, Minder 0 (at least as far as AW&ST is concerned).

[davejb]

Cobblers.
Sqn Ldr Joel is a big enough lad to be able to say "I'm here to talk about tactics, not policy" - surely he's bright enough to know when to say 'no comment'... strikes me the PR lot aren't as bright as the people they're screening.

Oh, and WTF is an executive ossifer? I thought that was a Lt JG on a PT boat? Do they mean OC"A" flight?

[Lonewolf_50]

dave, more or less, the sqdn leader likely has a rough idea on that, but the PR guy probably has the day in day out briefing format, and potential messes, as his bread and butter. Also, said PR guy and a few of the reporters may well have a history with one another, and it is possible that a few backstabs have the PR guy spring loaded to go into a certain put down mode. None of what we see is without some sort of background. A press briefing is not a benign environment.

Postman Plod, you have it wrong.

I did not say said pilot was not competent to deal with the press, you did.

Go Back, please, and read what I wrote.

I had the opportunity to have been taught and trained in a how to handle an interview. The least thing you do turns into a trap, or bait for a feeding frenzy. The media are all too frequently disingenuous and dishonest, which is too bad, as we ought to be on roughly the same side.

Some of the things I was taught and learned informed me why the information age has gotten the "stay in your lane" attitude regarding public utterances. (I think Ernie Pyle would be aghast at the relationship between the press and military these days. Opinion.)

The 24/7 news cycle, CNN (and folks like Christiana Amanpour) et al, along with the long standing "gotcha" interviewing and interrogating style of hard charging reporters, has oversensitized both the political leadership and the high brass to the non-linear effects of what ought to be innocuous or generally on topic remarks.

The pilot's presence at the media interrogation is as tactical/technidal source.

I won't comment on the style or aggressiveness of the other person, who got into the media's face. I'll point out that neither you nor I were present at the pre-briefing those gents had before they met with the press, and I am not sure if both of them went ... but one obviously did. :cool:
So, whether or not you like his style, he seems to have acted within the limitations pre-briefed.

Media interaction is not benign. It has consequences. So, you don't take it lightly.

(What I was taught is remain factual, and you can't go far wrong.)

[con-pilot]

A tale from years gone by, no PC here. :p

A few naughty words. But I think you guys can handle it.

WHAT THE CAPTAIN REALLY MEANS...

(Serious, professional and very monotone American voice.) "The following statements were recorded when a civilian correspondent interviewed a shy, unassuming Air Force Phantom jet fighter pilot. So the correspondent would not misconstrue the pilot's replies, a Wing Information Officer was on hand as a monitor to make certain that the real Air Force story would be told. The Captain was first asked his opinion of the F4C Phantom.

Pilot: "****, it's so friggin manoeuvrable you can fly up your own ass with it."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that he has found the F4C highly manoeuvrable at all altitudes and he considers it an excellent aircraft for all missions assigned."

Reporter: "I suppose Captain you've flown a certain number of missions in North Vietnam. What did you think of the SAMs used by the North Vietnamese?"

Pilot: "Why those bastards couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a base fiddle. We fake the **** out of them. They're no sweat."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that the surface to air missiles around Hanoi pose a serious threat to our air operations and the pilots have a healthy respect for them."

Reporter: "I suppose Captain you've flown missions to the South. What kind of ordinance do you use, and what kinds of targets to you hit?"

Pilot: "Well, I'll tell you, mostly we aim at kicking the **** out of Vietnamese villages, and my favourite ordinance is napalm. Man, that stuff just sucks the air out of their friggin lungs and makes a son of a bitchin' fire."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that air strikes in South Vietnam are often against Viet Cong structures and all air operations are under the positive control of Forward Air Controllers, or FACs. The ordinance employed is conventional 500 and 750 pound bombs and 20 millimetre cannon fire."

Reporter: "I suppose you've spent an R&R in Hong Kong. What were your impressions of the Oriental girls?"

Pilot: "Yeah, I went to Hong Kong. As for those Oriental broads - well, I don't care which way the runway runs, east or west, north or south - a piece of ass is a piece of ass."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that he found the delicately featured Oriental girls fascinating, and was very impressed with their fine manners and thinks their naiveté is most charming."

Reporter: "Tell me Captain, have you flown any missions other than over North and South Vietnam?"

Pilot: "You bet your sweet ass I've flown other missions other than in North and South. We get fragged nearly every day for.. uh, those mothers over there throw everything at you but the friggin kitchen sink. Even the goddamned kids got slingshots."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that he has occasionally been scheduled to fly missions in the extreme western DMZ and he has a healthy respect for the flak in that area." (Translation: the 'extreme west' of the Demilitarized Zone was 'neutral' Laos, where most if not all of that section of the Ho Chi Minh Trail was located and where the Americans did not officially go.)

Reporter: "I understand that no one in the 12th Tactical Fighter Wing has got a MiG yet. What seems to be the problem?"

Pilot: "Why you screwhead! If you knew anything about what you were talking about, the problem is MiGs. If we got fragged by those peckerheads at 7th for those counters in MiG valley you could bet your ass we'd get some of those mothers. Those glory hounds at Ubon get all those frags while we settle for fighting the friggin war. Those mothers at Ubon are sitting on their fat asses killing MiGs and we get stuck with bombing the goddamned cabbage patches."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that each element of the 7th Air Force is responsible for doing their assigned job in the air war. Some units are assigned the job of neutralising enemy air strength but hunting out MiGs, and other elements are assigned bombing missions and interdiction of enemy supply routes."

Reporter: "Of all the targets you've hit in Vietnam, which one was the most satisfying?"

Pilot: "Oh, ****, it was getting fragged for that friggin suspected VC vegetable garden. I dropped napalm in the middle of the friggin pumpkins and cabbage, while my wingman splashed it real good with six of those 750 pound mothers and spread the fire al the way to the friggin beets and carrots."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that the great variety of tactical targets available throughout Vietnam make the F4C the perfect aircraft to provide flexible response."

Reporter: "What do you consider the most difficult target you've struck in North Vietnam?"

Pilot: "The friggin bridges. I must have dropped forty tons of bombs on those swaying bamboo mothers and I ain't hit one of the bastards yet."

WIO: "What the captain means is that interdicting bridges along enemy supply routes is very important and a quite difficult target. The best way to accomplish this task is to crater the approaches to the bridges."

Reporter: "I noticed in touring the base that you have aluminium matting on the taxiways. Would you care to comment on the effectiveness and usefulness in Vietnam?"

Pilot: "You're friggin right I'd like to make a comment. Most of us pilots are well hung, but ****, you don't know what hung is until you get hung up on one of those friggin bumps on that goddamned stuff."

WIO: "What the Captain means is that the aluminium matting is quite satisfactory as a temporary expedient, but requires some finesse in taxying and braking the aircraft."

Reporter: "Did you have an opportunity to meet your wife on leave in Honolulu, and did you enjoy the visit with her?"

Pilot: "Yeah, I met my wife in Honolulu, but I forgot to check the calendar, and so the whole five days were friggin well combat-proof. A completely dry run."

WIO: "What the captain means is that it was wonderful to get together with his wife and learn first hand about the family and how things were at home."

Reporter: "Thank you for your time, Captain."

Pilot: "Screw you, why don't you bastards print the real story instead of all that crap."

WIO: "What the Captain really means is that he enjoyed the opportunity to discuss his Tour with you."

Reporter: "One final question. Could you reduce your impression of the war into a simple phrase or statement, Captain?"

Pilot: "You bet your ass I can. It's a f**ked-up war."

WIO: "What the Captain means is it's a f**ked-up war."

[Lonewolf_50]

@con

Hey, that's training material you're compromising there! OPSEC violation. :eek:

(Actually, ROFL)

[Jackonicko]

The briefing referred to occurred at the Paris Air Show on Sunday. I was not present then, though I have spoken to people who were, from both industry and the media side. Opinions as to the 'rudeness' and 'appropriateness' of questions varies, but it's fair to say that there may be some mutual lack of understanding!

I would say that I do not believe that anyone was being 'disingenuous or dishonest'.

The briefing was re-run today for stragglers who missed the Sunday event.

My understanding is that yesterday, Squadron Leaders Joel and Woods did confirm that Typhoon HAS self-designated targets, but that it does not ROUTINELY do so, and they certainly confirmed that today, with great clarity. Some of those present yesterday thought that they had said as much then, but seemingly with less clarity as some very distinguished journo chums missed it.

I understand that Typhoon has flown in 'Typhoon ONLY' pairs, co-operatively and self designating for LGBs carried by Typhoon, but that mixed Typhoon/Tornado pairs are more usual, and are preferred, though Squadron Leader Joel said today that in such cases the Typhoon stands ready to designate should the Tornado's Litening pod go tech or be unavailable for any other reason. It's clear that Litening on Typhoon is useable and useful.

With regard to the Libyan op, it is being watched with great interest in places like India and Qatar, and the impression given is that the Rafale is performing well, underlining its multi-role and Omni role credentials (this may be a slightly misleading impression) because the French air force and Dassault are being very open about exactly what the aircraft has been doing.

The impression of Typhoon has been less positive, tending to support the inaccurate 'narrow single role AD aircraft/Cold War dinosaur' stereotype peddled by Lewis Page and his ilk. This seems to be pretty misleading, but is a direct consequence of a media policy which, until now, seems to have been to underplay what Typhoon has been doing - perhaps in an understandable desire to ensure that Tornado's continuing vital importance is not eclipsed.

The impression hitherto given has been that Typhoon has been serving as little more than a bomb truck, with Tornado doing all of the 'clever stuff'. The briefings yesterday and today serve to usefully counter that impression, though the impression that only a handful of Typhoon pilots have 'self designated' remains strong among the media and other onlookers (and this impression has yet to be corrected).

The briefings may also serve to reassure the UK taxpayer that the austere air to ground programme for Typhoon has resulted in a useful and useable capability (thereby offering value for money), and that the oft maligned Tranche 1 Typhoons do offer a useful multi-role capability.

[26er]

In the 1950's after many RAF and RAAF aviators had been in the Korean war the standard injection to an exuberant combat story was "What the major really means" as per the PR's intervention between the press and an American fighter pilot who would tell it like it was, e.g. "we clobbered the slittey eyed ba*****s".

What's new?

Sorry to be a bit late after the Vietnam contribution appeared but those tales were already there.

[Two's in]

If only we had been involved in some earlier desert conflict from the early '90s, where the lessons of reliance on independent target designation from a much older legacy platform could have been learned...

[con-pilot]

Sorry to be a bit late after the Vietnam contribution appeared but those tales were already there.

Oh I think it matters not on just who or where that originated. It is still very funny and involves a lot of truth. :ok:

Oh, and still very appropriate to this day and time.

[just another jocky]

If only we had been involved in some earlier desert conflict from the early '90s, where the lessons of reliance on independent target designation from a much older legacy platform could have been learned...

Which lessons would those be, pray? :rolleyes:

[Lonewolf_50]

The impression hitherto given has been that Typhoon has been serving as little more than a bomb truck, with Tornado doing all of the 'clever stuff'. The briefings yesterday and today serve to usefully counter that impression, though the impression that only a handful of Typhoon pilots have 'self designated' remains strong among the media and other onlookers (and this impression has yet to be corrected).

The briefings may also serve to reassure the UK taxpayer that the austere air to ground programme for Typhoon has resulted in a useful and useable capability (thereby offering value for money), and that the oft maligned Tranche 1 Typhoons do offer a useful multi-role capability.
jacko, thanks! :)

In re lasing and designating, the RAF had plenty of opportunity to learn some collegial lessons more recently than 90's, as part of the coalition Air Forces, over Iraq and Afghanistan, for the past few years. :)

Your post made me grin, Two's in. :ok:

[Wensleydale]

If they really wished to gag the fighter pilot then all they had to do was tie his hands down by his sides........:ok: