UK Harriers to be sold to US Marines for £34M - Telegraph

[kiliwizz]

Harrier jump-jets sold 'for peanuts' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html)

I'm utterly speechless. :sad:

[MAINJAFAD]

Half a million pounds per each 20 year old out of service ground attack jet. I say that the MoD actually got a good deal seeing that most ex British military aircraft disposals go for a fraction of that. Yanks are buying them to rob for spares that fit their AV-8Bs anyway, not to fly. Anyhow we have begged, borrowed and stole off the Yanks for years to support operations hence I've not go a problem with giving them a bargin back.

Harrier in the UK is gone...Live with it.

[Lazer-Hound]

I don't see the problem here. It's better than letting them quietly rust away in a shed somewhere and it keeps the very busy USMC Harrier fleet flying until replaced by F35B (hopefully!).

Not as if the RAF's using them for anything...:p

[Load Toad]

What else were we going to do with them? Who else could we have sold them to? How could we get a better deal?

[diginagain]

Do they want any redundant Daleks to go with them? (See Caption Comp)

[snagged1]

Anyone know if the T-birds are going too?

[muppetofthenorth]

Did anybody really think they were coming back?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Hopefully this will finally put an end to the matter.

[Monty77]

MAINJAFAD

Begged borrowed and stole? I admire the USA and have found all the Americans I have met (mostly mil) to have been respectful and courteous. I am a fan. If I could get a Green Card, I would go there tomorrow and eventually retire. Nowhere is perfect, but America is the world's 'go to' country for most of the world. But. Despite all the guff about 'special relationships', the US will usually act in it's own interests. Lend/Lease during WW2 crippled the UK financially. We were not perfect, but lack of US support in the Suez led to humiliating climbdowns for France, UK and Israel. France took a more independent stance to the US after that, and it may have contributed to UK's refusal (despite US pressure) to get involved in Vietnam. The Americans took the cream of German rocket scientists after WW2 and would not share research with UK. Which is why today Trident is not UK designed and built. So I don't think you can say it's all one-way traffic. When politically expedient, the special relationship is trotted out, usually by the Brits. When sh*t comes to shove, Uncle Sam will do what's best for him. Don't start me on Frank Whittle. That apart, I shall continue to enjoy as many holidays as possible in the United States. When you have surfing, skiing, desert, mountains, cities, vast wilderness and pretty much anything else, I can understand why most Americans don't feel the need for a passport. In Europe's defence, it is compact, the cathedrals are pretty, it's expensive and the waiters are spectacularly rude. Amen.

[Justanopinion]

Hopefully this will finally put an end to the matter

Yes, now the RN can concentrate on flying conventional carrier aircraft and getting ready for F35.

[newt]

Much better than using them all as gate guardians!!:D

[Vortex81]

Anyhow we have begged, borrowed and stole off the Yanks for years to support operations hence I've not go a problem with giving them a bargin back.

You're joking aren't you? The yanks have borrowed our forces and stole our peace for years by dragging us into their conflicts, costing us money and the safety on our own streets from home grown terrorism.

[Justanopinion]

keeps the very busy USMC Harrier fleet flying

mmmmmmm, I wonder why the US still find a use for the Harrier deployed from carriers? Which jets were flying in Libya on day 1? oh, that'll be the Harrier and the French.

[hulahoop7]

The UK got everything for free, excepting trade agreements and basing rights, from the US on lend lease. It started because the UK had run out of money.

[Wrathmonk]

Which jets were flying in Libya on day 1?

According to the Beeb (see here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12797500)) on the first wave it included Tornado sqns from Marham as well as the Candians, US, French and Italians forces. Plus Tomahawk missiles.;)

And to be fair, when SDSR was announced we were 'friends' with Libya. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.:E

[FODPlod]

The UK got everything for free, excepting trade agreements and basing rights, from the US on lend lease. It started because the UK had run out of money.

Except that it was a bit more complicated than that:BBC: What's a little debt between friends? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm)

[Bismark]

Of course the USMC might use them to form a squadron manned by the Fleet Air Arm - out of RAF control....can we book them for RIAT?

[Wrathmonk]

I was actually wondering whether WEBF had won the super-duper-double-triple-Euro roll over and was creating his own independent air wing. Need to keep an eye on the coded ads for pilot jobs in Navy News ;):ok:

[Always a Sapper]

Pretty much what I was thinking there Bismark. One way of quietly keeping the skill set and capability going...

Sell em off cheap to the Americans, then send the crews over on 'long' exchange trips...

Of course, it'll never happen will it.

[RileyDove]

Look at the cost of a 109 engine and the fact that they are not built any more and the deal is incredibly good value for the USMC! Undoubtedly the aircraft will be shipped to somewhere like Davis Mothan and become spare parts -it means the RAF can wash its hands of the cost of maintaining these machines and off load its spares inventory quick as well.

[MAINJAFAD]

You're joking aren't you? The yanks have borrowed our forces and stole our peace for years by dragging us into their conflicts, costing us money and the safety on our own streets from home grown terrorism.

Safety on our own streets??? you're having a laugh. When were you ever effected by home grown terrorism??? (I have been....and guys who almost nailed me were not Muslims. Happened on 11 Sept as well). If it wasn't the Iraq and Afghan wars, it would be Cartoons about the Prophet or some other silliness (in our eyes) that the will cause the islamic hotheads to try and kill somebody. Anyhow we are in Afghan because of NATO, not the USA.

[Eminence Gris]

It seems there is some doubt over the Telegraph claim. MoD denies sale of Harriers to US - Defence Management (http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=16612)

EG

[PhamousPhotographer]

Linked to

Reversing the defence cuts is one U-turn Cameron should take - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/concoughlin/8576155/Reversing-the-defence-cuts-is-one-U-turn-Cameron-should-take.html)

How reliable is the 'reliable' information - para 7 et seq?

[Chainkicker]

Safety on our own streets??? you're having a laugh. When were you ever effected by home grown terrorism??? (I have been....and guys who almost nailed me were not Muslims. Happened on 11 Sept as well). If it wasn't the Iraq and Afghan wars, it would be Cartoons about the Prophet or some other silliness (in our eyes) that the will cause the islamic hotheads to try and kill somebody. Anyhow we are in Afghan because of NATO, not the USA.

I suspect you will find he is using Iraq as the marker, not AFG.

Rightly or wrongly held opinion it may be, but I dont recollect any Islamic terror attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq invasion?

edit: UK underlined just for FodPlod

[500N]

" Rightly or wrongly held opinion it may be, but I dont recollect any Islamic terror attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq invasion?"

Marks and Spencer bomb, I think 1982 or 1983.


Not counting the few anti Israeli terrorist incidents (bombs, assassinations)
but I would put those in a different category anyway.

[jamesdevice]

"Rightly or wrongly held opinion it may be, but I dont recollect any Islamic terror attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq invasion? "

possibly because the heightened security due to the IRAs activities made it difficult for ANYONE to acquire arms / bombs in the UK. The Islamic "spectaculars" in the UK have all been post the IRA "ceasefire" and resultant relaxation in security

and think on these

PAM AM 103 - 21 December 1988
BOAC 775 - 9 September 1970 (not IN Britain, but a British aircraft)
Policewoman Yvonne Fletcher murdered 17 April 1984

and on a more general basis, think of the numerous attacks by Muslim groups in Europe in the 1970's. Except they were called "Arabs" in those days, not Islamics.

[TEEEJ]

MoD denies sale of Harriers to US

MoD denies sale of Harriers to US - Defence Management (http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=16612)

The Ministry of Defence has denied reports that Britain's Harrier jump jets are to be sold to the US Marine Corps for spare parts.

A report in The Daily Telegraph suggested a £34m deal had already been finalised, and a 'Ministry of Defence insider' quoted in the newspaper said that selling Harriers to the US was "not a bad option in terms of cooperation".....


TJ

[FODPlod]

I suspect you will find he is using Iraq as the marker, not AFG.

Rightly or wrongly held opinion it may be, but I dont recollect any Islamic terror attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq invasion?

I'm not sure how we got here from selling off our Harriers to Uncle Sam at bargain basement prices but Islamic terrorism certainly didn't start with the invasion of Iraq. In the pre-9/11 days, Arab terrorists committed other atrocities such as as hijacking airliners, shooting their passengers and blowing up the aircraft on remote airfields. Since then, better airport and on board security have caused a change of modus operandi.


Chronological List of Islamic Terrorist Attacks, 1968 - 2004 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1993321/posts)
Middle Eastern Terrorist Incidents (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Middle_Eastern_Terrorist_Incidents)

[jamesdevice]

nice play by the Telegraph
force the Government into a denial and so prevent any decision from being made, so giving a breathing space for a reconsideration of reactivation / regeneration

[Wrathmonk]

The Telegraph is becoming quite the paper of choice to "place" selected stories. Wonder how serious Mr Fox was when he said criminal action will be taken against those who leak stories.

As for Con Coughlins bit. Wow - he really needs to keep a good lookout for the black Omegas to arrive at his front door with some of the "accusations" he throws around!!!

I am reliably informed that the decision to sell the Harriers, which was only taken yesterday, was an act of vengeance against Admiral Stanhope for daring to suggest that the Government might wish to reconsider its decision to scrap a vital maritime capability.

In January, the MoD ordered BAE Systems to commit a wanton act of vandalism by ripping the wings off the new billion-pound fleet of Nimrod surveillance aircraft, to ensure there could be no further argument over its future. This, I’m told, was the MoD’s way of punishing BAE for refusing to compromise on the contracts to build two new aircraft carriers.

Trouble is whenever I see the phrases "I am reliably informed" and "I'm told" I always think "I have made up":( (or "I have read a post on PPRuNe from someone who makes out that they are 'in the know' so it must be true":E)

[What the Fug]

FODPlod


You can't file the PLO under Islamic seeing as some of their top guys were Christian ( George Habash )

[FODPlod]

You can't file the PLO under Islamic seeing as some of their top guys were Christian ( George Habash )

Aren't the lists long enough without the occasional discrepancy? Habash shared the same causes as Baader-Meinhoff, Black September, the Red Army, etc., but only the Islamic fundamentalists have prevailed through to the present.

[500N]

"Aren't the lists long enough without the occasional discrepancy? Habash shared the same causes as Baader-Meinhoff, Black September, the Red Army, etc., but only the Islamic fundamentalists have prevailed through to the present."


That's not surprising considering BH, BS and RA either ended up shot dead or in prison and had quite small bases compared to the "fundamentalists".

[On_Loan]

Only on PPrune could a discussion about the (potential) sale of Harriers end up leading to Habash and Baader-Meinhoff in 2 pages...

[FODPlod]

Back on topic... it's official:Defence in the Media 15 June 2011 (http://www.blogs.mod.uk/defence_news/2011/06/defence-in-the-media-15-june-2011.html)
British Harrier fleet sale

The Daily Telegraph reported today that the British Harrier fleet is to be sold in a £34m deal. As decided in the SDSR, Harrier aircraft will be disposed of through whatever means will get best value-for-money for the UK taxpayer while ensuring appropriate future use of the assets. Discussions about options for disposal are ongoing.

Also see MoD denies sale of Harriers to US (http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=16612) on Defence Management.com

[JFZ90]

...this £34m US rumour could be a wheeze to get another potential buyer (India) to up their price

[andrewn]

...this £34m US rumour could be a wheeze to get another potential buyer (India) to up their price


£35m anyone... anyone?

EDIT: SOLD to Mr Stanhope (aka WEBF) ;)

[BootFlap]

MOD E-Disposals - Ayman al-Zawahiri has entered a bid...