A Good Flying Instructor School....UK??

[ONEWORLD_86]

Hi,

Apologies firstly if this has been covered in previous threads.

I am looking to become a flying instructor, and have looked over the internet and found numerous schools in the UK, but am looking for your good/bad experiences, and any that you would particularly recommend.

I have a job in aviation already but would love to get involved with the flying club and the GA scene once again so price isn't to much of an issue, just the quality of training and flexibility offered!

Thanks in advance.....:ok:

[Stampe]

I can wholeheartedly recommend Carol Cooper at Andrewsfield Flying Club.I,ve been going to her for for my instructor and examiner renewals for years.Carol sets very high standards,the club is very pleasant and having its own airfield low costs allowing unlimited circuits no ground delays and no ATC hassle.Lots of clear airspace to the east,You don,t say where in the UK you are.I used to conduct FIC courses many years ago don,t underestimate the importance of having access to a runway without financial penalty.Good luck in your search.VBR Stampe

[dobbin1]

I would recommend Dorothy Pooley at Shoreham.

[ClintonBaptiste]

I can highly recommend Ontrack at Wellesbourne. I did my Multi-Engine Instructor rating there last year. Even with the usual weather problems the UK gives us, I managed to finish in under a week. The instruction I received was in my opinion the best flight instruction I have received. They really prepared me for not just the test, but also on the pitfalls of being a twin instructor.
The examiner was also extremely adaptable to my needs, as I only had a week off work and desperately needed to finish. He came up especially to do the test at very short notice.
Thanks to all involved there, without them I wouldn't have my current instructing job.
A special thanks to Pete Thompson and Mike Grierson who taught me a great deal during my short time there.

[S-Works]

Anyone else................ :ok:

I would also very highly recommend Ontrack trained a lot with them over the years and always been first class.

[blagger]

Another vote for On Track - highest standards and their graduates have a top reputation around the industry.

[BEagle]

Whenever this question pops up, the answers are invariably (in no particular order):

OnTrack at Wellesbourne Mountford
Carol Cooper at Andrewsfield
Dorothy Pooley at Shoreham
Aeros (at various aerodromes)

Which does rather say a lot - all have an excellent reputation. Other good FIC providers are of course available, but the ones above always seem to be strongly recommended.

[AdLib]

I recommend West London Aero Club at White Waltham. They do an excellent FIC and you get to do it at one of the best GA airfields in the UK (just my opinion of course).

[ClintonBaptiste]

Thanks also to Steve Copeland who helped me through my twin hour building. Excellent advice throughout!

[Mickey Kaye]

Kevin Rowell at Sherburn

[Jimmy5]

I can second that, Kevin Rowell at Sherburn is fantastic.

[Horst Schwul]

Eva and Ian at The Pilot Centre, Denham. Welcome to The Pilot Centre (http://www.thepilotcentre.co.uk)

[ONEWORLD_86]

Thanks for all the advice. This was exactly what I was after.

:ok:

[vetflyer]

On track

DEFTS at Barkston Heath used to do a very good course ( dont know if they still do )

[Mowgli]

Western Air at Thruxton. Own airfield, very competitive rates, first class instruction by probably the 2 most experienced instructors in the business. (One of them wrote the patter manual). They were really flexible about my time - I told them which days I would be available. I have heard good things about On Track also - for me it came down to location as well as reputation My experience was a very good one!:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

By way of a small personal announcement, I passed in my CRI(SPA) skill test yesterday - so have officially come over to the dark side and am now a flying instructor (if a very junior one). (Or at-least, I will be once I've got the paperwork off to, then back to, CAA.)

I did the course with Ian Clarke at TPC Denham, who worked me hard and mercilessly, allowed me to get away with absolutely nothing, and left me absolutely exhausted.

He also delivered me to an examiner on-schedule where I got a first time pass, having spent slightly less money on the course than had been predicted. (I can boast a full set of first time passes on my licence, but this is the first time I've ever come out of a piece of flying training under-budget).

I had a great time, and if or when in due course I choose to go back to add an FI rating, I'd have no hesitation in going back.

Incidentally, we used On-Track's book "Instructional Techniques for the Flight Instructor" which I thought was excellent (indeed, I'm already an instructor in a couple of other lines of activity - university teaching, martial arts, and previously canoeing - and this is comfortably the best teachers guide I've yet seen in any field).

In short, I'd recomment Pilot Centre at Denham very highly.

G

[mad_jock]

Top news Genghis.

Just as a side note.

Was there anything you found an eye opener with the course?

Just to add most of us launch into FI'ing rather wet behind the ears compared to yourself. Was there anything about the method thats taught that you found strange?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks MJ.

Not so much strange as a few observations.

- There are a lot of people with a lot of views on how things should be done in flying, with some quite contractory views being still perhaps correct. I was gratified to see how accepting the course was of different approaches being acceptable so long as they could be justified.

- The CRI minimum hours may be achievable if you have been practicing right hand seat flying, and are current on both the type and the training airfield you do the course at. If any of those are missing, the hours will go up a bit - as they did for me.

- TPC were good enough to let me back-seat on a couple of instructional flights for somebody else. I got a lot for this, and would recommend the experience for anybody shooting for CRI.

- I was working hard, and I went over the minimum hours a little, and I'm a CPL with 4-figure hours and a lot of breadth of experience. I accept that there will be a few talented individuals who can manage this course with the minimum of 300hrs and PPL level knowledge. Frankly however, very few. Equally, most high hour PPLs are going to struggle to deliver the precision of flying required - they get sloppy, as I had prior to my CPL a couple of years ago.

- I can't be unique in wanting to do my CRI so that I can do instruction primarily on permit, private and vintage aeroplanes. I don't think that the instructional system is all that good at dealing with that - so the course was structured primarily about the standard "renting club" environment. Full credit to Ian and the examiner for his flexibility in adjusting to this oddball student, but I can imagine some schools and examiners being a lot less open minded.

- The documentation behind the CRI course is a bit inadequate, doubtless because it's a relatively young qualfication. I've spent a lot of time pulling bit of information from all over the place to work out what I can, and can't, do - and am still unclear on a few points. That could be tidied up by somebody somewhere.

- It's always been obvious to me that a great many (mainly private) pilots regard the point at which they passed their test as the highest standard they had to display, and after that they could relax. I think comparing to the very good "best practice" shown on this course, to what I've seen in many flying schools around the UK in particular, this is clearly true of a few instructors.

So, no, it didn't surprise me - I never doubted that learning to fly and teach from the right hand seat in a fairly short period of time would be hard work, nor that I'd learn things that would improve my own flying. But that doesn't detract from the experience and that I feel it was really worthwhile.

Interestingly, the examiner who passed me on my CPL commented in the debrief that the remaining rough edges on my flying would be sorted by doing an instructors course. I think having done this now, I agree with him more than I did at the time.

G

[mad_jock]

Cheers for taking the time to write that.

Best bet is to contact ontrack about what you can and can't do.

Rumour has it that when the CRI appeared the CAA didn't really know what to do with it and asked on-track what they reckoned should be in the course. This became what we have today.

It is weird how the simple process of dissecting down what you are going to teach changes your own style of flying. Aso the additional amount of capacity you seem to have increases as well. I presume its to do with the fact you have had to organise your thoughts for teaching means that you have got to a new level of understanding. I found this especially with PFL's.

As for the full FI, its a new whole level of job staisfaction compared to working with qualified pilots. There is something great seeing someone progress from zero to competent pilot. In someways its easier than post ppl because you have a fresh lump of meat to work with, and otherways its harder because the buggers keep on thinking they have invented a new way of screwing things up and everyone is an individual.

And only one word of advise, the pilot you are with that seems the most competent is the one thats going to scare the ****e out of you and bite your bum the hardest. The crap ones you know are crap and nothing suprises you.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Last point fully taken on board, and thanks for that.

Here's what I think I can now do:

Differences Training
Subject to having passed this differences training myself.


Tailwheel
Variable pitch / constant speed propeller
Retractable gear (+ above = complex)
Turbocharged engines
EFIS
Pressurised cabin
Single lever power (why?, I could see carburated engines for those who haven't flown one, but not this way around).

(for the record, last two I can't personally as I've not done the training myself)

Recency tasks

Biennial flight with an instructor
Training for proficiency check after licence has lapsed
Training for new proficiency check after failure
Training on type within SEP
Teaching a US trained JAR-PPL holder how to fly in UK airspace
Any general "rusty pilot" recency flying (for 90 day rule, club or syndicate rules, etc....


New licences
Training for NPPL(SSEA) GST for holders of UK-PPL(H), UK PPL(G), NPPL(SLMG), NPPL(M)

Ambiguous
- I *think* that I can do differences training to microlights for NPPL(SSEA), UK-PPL(A) and JAR-PPL(SEP) holders, and control system differences training within NPPL(M) but can't find an explicit statement to that effect.
- I also *think* that I can do training onto SEP for pilots only current on SET/MEP/MET, but can't find an explicit statement about that either.

Very ambiguous
It has been suggested to me that a suitably qualified CRI holder can teach aerobatics and for the night qualification. I can't find anything clearly stating yeah or nay either way.
(Again for the record, I'm only just safe myself in both environments, so am not going to try teaching them, but it would be interesting to know).

G

[mad_jock]

I wouldn't have thought the the night qualification would be allowable.

Its for a new "rating" and also you need to be a unrestriced FI to send them solo on it.

suitably qualified CRI holder can teach aerobatics

Anyone can teach aerobatics as there isn't a rating or qualification for it.

You could send that list to the CAA but make sure you address it to policy. The front desk will just point you at lasors.

O aye the single lever thing is for fadec aircraft, I know nothing about it but I think it is usually linked in with the glass cockpit stuff for DA machines which I have never flown.

[blagger]

CRI cannot teach for the night qual.

Best advice I can give you is to find a good, experienced FI mentor who can help you through the early years, someone who you can discuss various exercise elements and student problems with. As a CRI is totally unsupervised and with no restrictions, I have come across a number who have reverted to PPL type standards and aren't really fit to teach some of what they can legally do.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm sure you're both right about night, but I've still not seen anything printed on that.

Anyone can teach aerobatics as there isn't a rating or qualification for it.

There's at-least one country in JAAland (Norway) with a national aerobatic rating, but also what about the "NO AEROBATICS" I've seen printed on the licences of various FIs? That surely means something?

Best advice I can give you is to find a good, experienced FI mentor who can help you through the early years, someone who you can discuss various exercise elements and student problems with.

Fortunately, I have an old and trusted friend, who is also a full FI and former club CFI, who is very happy to do exactly this if asked nicely and bought an occasional pint.

G

[421C]

I have to say I think there is simply a very high standard of FI instruction in the UK, and that the courses are very good, in that
- most people have been to only one FI school
- most people think the one they attended was brilliant and highly recommend it

I did my CRI-ME and IRI at BCFT Bournemouth with Lance Plews, and would highly recommend it likewise!

brgds
421C

[mad_jock]

There are quite a few threads about the aero's stuff on the board.

As such there is no aerobatics rating apart from national differences (there isn't one in the UK).

[BillieBob]

what about the "NO AEROBATICS" I've seen printed on the licences of various FIs? That surely means something?On the contrary, it's utterly meaningless. JAR-FCL details the privileges of the FI rating, which do not include the teaching of aerobatics. Consequently, the CAA, through either arrogance or ignorance or both, has long sought to restrict a privilege of the FI rating that never existed in the first place.

In the UK, the ANO requires that an FI rating be held only to give instruction leading to the issue, revalidation or renewal of a licence or rating. The giving of flight instruction that does not lead to such an outcome is a privilege of the licence, not the FI rating.

[madlandrover]

Single lever power (why?, I could see carburated engines for those who haven't flown one, but not this way around).

In the school system it's not a major thing, since the differences are covered by a standard checkout anyway, but it's handy to see what the differences are for eg maintenance pilots. Primarily understanding how the prop control works, how important gascolator drains are, and a) what to do b) how it reacts if/when it breaks. Once or twice when I was flying Thielerts daily saw both PPLs and FIs come back in slightly white after experiencing what they thought was a problem, only to be reassured that it was in fact correct, often the FADEC trying to protect itself!

[high wing harry]

As someone has previously said - most people who have been through an FI school will highly recommend them. It seems that the FI instructors have to go through big CAA hoops so they tend to be the best!!

Anyway, having recently gained my FI rating I would highly recommend Simon and Caroline at Wycombe Air Centre. They do a great "good cop bad cop" routine and are seriously knowledgeable,

And on top of that they are very interested in helping their students find employment afterwards and it seems not all schools can say that!

Great staff, great aircraft and great fun... all mixed in with a huge amount of work!