ATC from Gate to Gate

[LH419]

Hey board members!

Being what you'd call a wannabe, I'd like to learn about what controllers and pilots say on the radio. Even though I did fly United on a domestic flight twice and listened to channel 9 :) , I still would like to read a couple of samples from your replies. I have learned a lot about real aviation since then, so it should make sense to me if you just jot it down and hit the post button (real phrases would be neat!). It's just not the same if a flight sim add-on adds ATC and claims to be realistic...

Happy Landings always!
LH419

[Matchbox]

"avoiding action turn left immediately heading... traffic was..."

:)

[LH419]

This might help you: Stop aiming for the dots on your TCAS... ATC will appreciate it. :) So will your passengers (unless you're paid to make milkshakes...).

[This message has been edited by LH419 (edited 21 May 2001).]

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Why don't you go out and buy yourself an air band radio and a book to help you understand what's happening.....?

[DeltaTango]

check this one out:
http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*36238388!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/live-atc.html

Have fun....
DT

[LH419]

@DT: I don't have a flat rate and I don't think I'd hear a lot of ATC in the area of Siegen (about 100 hilly kilometers from Cologne-Bonn EDDK/CGN). So I'd really appreciate some written down phrases or a link to a resource... I did enjoy the RealPlayer stream from Philly though when I was in the US 1999/2000.

Regards
LH419

[LH419]

Anybody got any special book recommendations dealing with exactly this? Would be neat...

Thanks aready
LH419

[G-BPEC]

LH419,

I'll do my best to do what you asked, but you were a tad vague... As was already mentioned in this post I would recommend buying a scanner, you will hear "overflights" in the airways up to about 200 miles away (they follow a line of sight, roughly). I live in England and so this applies here, and it should apply everywhere else, but you will get slight differences, and in some countries, quite illegally, you will get ATC/Aircraft talking in there own language (eg. French in France, etc).

Here goes.

The first but of ATC conversation a pilot will have (ignoring possibility of company ops, which is RT not ATC) is calling Delivery. For this example, let's use flight number BY123A from Manchester to Palma on Stand 203. So BY123A would call up the Manchester Delivery frequency which is 121.7. The purpose of Delivery is to obtain clearence to the destination, a Standard Instrument Deprature, a Slot, a Transponder Code (a "squawk") and any other information. On the Manchester ATIS (Info. broadcast) it asks pilots to also give there aircraft type, a 757 on this occasion. The first call from the BY will probably be along the lines of:-

"Manchester Delivery good morning Britannia 123 Alpha stand 203 requesting clearence to Palma, Boeing 757".

This is basically the aircraft checking in with ATC and asking for his clearance. Here's the complicated part. ATC will probably reply with something like this:-

"Britannia 123 Alpha good morning, your clearance to Palma is a Honiley 1 Yankee departure, squawk 7733 slot time 1223."

Honiley 1 Yankee is the name of the Standard Instrument Departure, basically a calculated route from the runway to the first "waypoint" en-route, which is the Honiley becaon on this occasion, just outside Birmingham. The squawk is a code which the pilot inputs into the flightdeck and enables it to be identified on radar screen. The slot time is 23 minutes past 12. A slot is when the aircraft is allowed to leave the ground. The Britannia aircraft would then read this clearance back to the Delivery controller, who would then clear him to talk to Ground to request a push back from stand.

About 10/15 minutes from slot time, the Britannia would be ready to call Manchester ground on 121.85. The call would probably go:-

"Ground, morning, Britannia 123Alpha with you stand 203 requesting push and start"

Here the aircraft is requesting clearance to push back off stand and start the engines. ATC might reply-

"Britannia 123Alpha push and start approved Stand 203."

In which case he would be cleared to push back from stand onto the main taxiway and start the engines. One this is done, he must now request to taxy to the main or "active" runway, which today is 24 Left. He would ask ATC for this by saying:-

"Britannia 123Alpha ready for Taxy"

ATC would then clear him to taxy via a certain taxyway/taxyways. For this runway, the aircraft must first cross another runway, 24R. So this is the instruction ATC would give:-

"Britannia 123Alpha taxy via Delta to the holding point Delta 1 to hold short of 24R."

This is clearing the aircraft to taxy via taxyway "Delta" to hold short of Runway 24R which is handling landing aircraft. Once the aircraft has read back these instructions, the Ground controller would wait for him to approach Delta 1 and then ask him to call another frequency- Tower- on 118.625 for clearance to cross the runway. The first call to Tower would be something like this:-

"Tower Morning Britannia 123 Alpha holding short at Delta One"

Telling the Tower that he is holding short of the Runway and is waiting for clearance to cross in order to reach his departing runway, Two Four Left, on the other side of this runway, which is being used for landing aircraft. The Tower would then clear him to cross, providing there was no other traffic occupying the landing runway.

"Britannia 123A roger, cross runway 24R and hold at Victor 5"

This tells the Britannia to cross the runway, and taxy to another holding point at the other side of the runway, Victor 5. Once he is there, he would clear the Britannia to line up at the runway and await take off clearance.

"Britannia 123aA line up and wait runway 24L."

The Britannia would then reply with "Line up and Wait Runway 24L Britannia 123A".

A short time after this instruction had been given, and everyone is ready, the aircraft would be cleared to leave the airport and climb out, following a specific route, this one called the Honiley One Yankee departure.

"Britannia 123A cleared take off runway 24L wind is 020 at 3 knots."

This clears the aircraft for departure, and also gives the wind read out, here it is northeasterly at 3 knots. The aircraft would read this back, and then begin its take off roll.

The aircraft will now have left the ground, and will be climbing to 5000 feet, which is the highest altitude they have been cleared to at this stage. Throughout the flight they will be cleared to higher altitudes by ATC until they reach there cruising altitudes.

From here, we see our flight being passed from control area to control area as it routes through Europe on its way to Palma. As it descends into Palma, it is asked to Contact Palma approach. I'm afraid that I dont know the frequencies for Palma, so these are "made up".

"Britannia 123A descend to 5000 feet and call Palma approach on 123.4"

This clears the aicraft to descend down to 5000 feet, and to swich to Palma approach. On first contact with approach, the aircraft will give its aircraft type, height, speed and heading.

"Palma good afternoon Britannia 123A with you, passing 5500 for 5000, heading 180, speed 240, Boeing 757 with information Bravo"

Here we see the aircraft giving its passing altitude, its cleared altitude, its heading, speed, and its version if the arrival recorded information (ATIS). At most airports, ATC would now offer a "Vectors" to the ILS, a landing system which guides the aircraft down a 3 degree descent path and onto the runway centreline. The ILS is followed by the aicraft's autopilot, and it can be intercepted at a heading of about 50 degrees or less from that of the runway. The ILS is a very complicated thing, but once you have it sussed its as easy as pie. I wont go into it here, but there are many good books available. Alternatively, the aircraft may be clared for a "visual" approach, whereby the pilot lands with visual references (ie. he can see the runway) and with minimal refercnes to the instruments, other than to confirm that he is in fact lined up with the runway and not the M1 or the local Travelodge anything.

"Britannia 123A visual with the field"

This is the Britannia telling ATC he can see the runway and he wishes to continue visually.

"Roger 123A cleared the visual and over to Tower on 125.6"

ATC tells our flight that he is cleared for the approach visually, and he should call Tower for landing.

"Tower, afternoon Britannia 123A turning finals for runway 06R"

This call tells the tower that the Britannia is just turning to line up with the runway, and that he is lining up with runway 06R.

"Roger Britannia 123A you are cleared to land on 6R wind is calm"

This is basically telling the aircraft that he can land.

"Clear land copied the wind Britannia 123A"

After landing, the aircraft will be switched back over to Palma ground and will be given a stand to taxy to and taxying instructions.

I am not a pilot, I am merely a wannabe (at the moment ;)) but I do own an airband reciever. I would highly recommend getting one. Although techinally illegal, the Police are frankly not bothered, and they can be quite inexpensive.

If you have any questions at all please dont hesitate to ask. Sorry if it wasnt as clear as it could have been. Any real pilots want to add anything?

All the best, and good luck,

G-BPEC
Minus about 7 fingers

[10W]

G-BPEC

A few non standard phrases in your example, but they give the gist of what goes on. And they're the sort of thing you hear in real life anyway ;)

However,

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">and in some countries, quite illegally, you will get ATC/Aircraft talking in there own language (eg. French in France, etc).</font>

this is not illegal. Under ICAO rules, English is not the only language available for use. Russian, French and Spanish are also recognised. There is also allowance for transmissions to be made in the local tongue where circumstances dictate.


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10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

[chiglet]

Tut tut 'pec. At 1223, it would be a
Honily 1Romeo, but 92% for your explination.
I'll think of you tomorrow :)
Our aim is to please [keeps the cleaners happy]
chiglet

[This message has been edited by chiglet (edited 02 June 2001).]

[G-BPEC]

10W, I actually didn't realise that, I presumed it was illegal. There have been a few posts on Rumours lately condemning the use of Spanish in Spanish airspace etc. Thanks for enlightening me anyhow, and I stand corrected ;)

chiglet,
hmmm.... a disabled aircraft blocking 24R perhaps? a particularly busy day? Oh alright I forgot, but 93% aint bad ;) LH419, Honiley 1R it is then, not much difference, just speeds up on a different slab of concrete, that's all.

Cheers
G-BPEC

[10W]

G-BPEC

The actual ICAO policy which I've now located, although I don't necessarily agree with, is that in international aviation communications the primary language to be used in air-ground communications is that of the ground station (typically the notified language of the country in which the ground station is located). If English is not the language of the ground station however, ATC services should be made available in English on request. English is recognised by ICAO as the universal medium for communications.

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10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

[LH419]

Wow, thanks to you, just read your post. Pretty complete, as it seems to me! Maybe I WAS a tad to vague, because it wouldn't have been necessary for you to explain things like the squawk code or SID's. But thanks for these anyway!

I got a couple of questions about your post:
- 1st: Where did you get your great knowledge about ATC phraseology as a wannabe? Did you ask yourself?
- Is an airband scanner REALLY illegal to own and operate? I know it's unlawful to operate it in an A/C, but @ home, where there can't be EMI (electro-magnetic interference)... Well, I couldn't hear but a few EDDK SIGEN Departures anyway - and maybe a few overflights at cruise altitude - nothing too exciting.
- An advanced one: Are slot times issued as Z-Times or as local times?
- When was BY123A cleared to 5000 feet? Or is that the initial climbout altitude on the SID chart?
- Does Tower really keep BY123A on its frequency after it reports clear of 25R or did you just skip the double frequency change?

Thanks again for your thorough answer.
LH419

[BigJETS]

Good post LH419 and I was asking the same follow up questions to G-BPEC. (ie. initial climb-out clearance to 5000' -- is that standard or assumed by a particular preflight plan?)
Thank you G-BPEC for the illustration. Good examples. A question about your Honiley correction....
&gt;&gt;&gt;LH419, Honiley 1R it is then, not much difference, just speeds up on a different slab of concrete, that's all.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
A different runway is used for the romeo departure than 24L? Just seeing if I understood correctly.

A tip for LH419....Did you have any luck with the net broadcasts of ATC? I know (chicago approach) http://www.cyberair.com/scripts/audio.pl?chiapp is good does it play to your connection?

[chiglet]

EGCC [Manchester] SIDs (Standard Instrument Departures) have a height limit of 5000'. A Hon1Y off 24L causes a RIGHT turn initially [to avoid Knutsford], before commencing the left turn to the HON VOR.
All slot times are in Zulu [or UTC as it's now called] and are issiued anywhere up to 4 hours in advance.
If you look at the profiles 419, you will see that a lot of us are in the aviation industry [I'm in ATC], but if you can listen in, then you will soon pick up the "jargon"
No a scanner is not illegal, BUT you can be prosecuted for "illegal use" of it.
Hope that this diatribe has clarified it somewhat :)

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chiglet

[This message has been edited by chiglet (edited 06 June 2001).]

[G-BPEC]

LH419/Big Jets,

My knowledge of ATC came from a will to learn listened out and, since I live near to Manchester, tried to match what was happening in the air around my house to what was happening on the airwaves on the radio. I recommend buying a good book if you are serious about learning, it really does help.

A scanner, technically, is illegal to own and operate, but I have used one at thw Woodford Air Show with a policeman literally 4 feet away and he really wasnt bothered. In the UK this is the attitude of all the Police. I don't know about Germany, but I would assume that similar applies there. The problem comes when some individuals use certain types of scanner to actually TRANSMIT hoax messages to ATC, or there is a danger of terrorists listening out on frequency to see what an aircraft is doing... they are the reasons why it is technically illegal (amongst others)

Slot times are issued as zulu times, so BST 12:00 would be given as 11:00

As chiglet expained, 5000 is the cleared altitude on the SID, and this is the initial altitude the aircraft is cleared to.

The Tower frequency for Runway 24L at EGCC is 119.525, so yes, there would have been another frequency change.

BigJets, Yes I did mean another Runway, 24R actually. Sorry if the tongue was too far in the cheek ;)

Hope this answers your queries
G-BPEC