OzRunways 2.whoa!

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I've just upgraded to v 2.0 and have yet to play with all the bells and whistles but I have to say after only a few minutes I'm very very impressed.



My position overlayed on VTC, VNC, TAC, ERC Low, ERC High, WAC, PCA or a street map.
In App RADAR at the tap of a button
Integrated ERSA and DAP plates
Multi-Tasking
Improved AIP Book searching
and probably some more.


Well done Bas, Rowan and Neil once again,

FRQ CB

[lk978]

Now guys I think I speak for the entire aviation community, while you have nothing on at the moment can you please put together a little flight planning program :ok:

Just take each of the good things out of command, champagne, flitestar and just pop them into a little app. Just leave out all the crappy things each product does.

Thanks I will be waiting :ok:

Brilliant product by the way :D

[The Green Goblin]

I love it! Been playing with it all night.

Only gripe? You can't draw multi leg tracks and build a plan. Only a go to.

If you could do that, and have a flight plan page with all the information you 'touched' it would be the ultimate.

Keep up the good work.

P.s. I expect to see this soon!

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

When selecting the sub-types of waypoints to display when using the 'nearest' function what do the following acronyms stand for:



FVR Waypoints-

LDM
TSP
VFA
VFC
VFM

GPS Waypoints-

GNA


Thanks in advance gentlemen and gentlemenesses.

FRQ CB

[Sunfish]

I love it! Bought it!

Now guys, you just need to add the same multi leg routing thing that I have in my marine navigation software...explained below.


With mouse I just point and click saying the magic words: "I want to go from here (click) to here(click) to here (click) etc.

Make it "snap" from where your finger is to the nearest vfr/ifr whatever waypoint.

The software draws a "rubber band" line between waypoints.

I can move any waypoint that is not the active waypoint I'm tracking to. That would be perfect for setting up a diversion.

The active waypoint automatically advances to the next in line once it bears 90 degrees from your current position.

You can insert additional waypoints in between the active waypoint and the last waypoint.

There is a shortcut "steer hear" command - which is what you have already got with your single leg arrangement.

When you have finished planning your route, you save it, and the program asks for a name, or automatically generates one (date and time ). You also get to insert a comment and a departure and destination.

When you select the route to follow, you get a window that not only gives eta/ete for the leg, but also total ETE and also route ETA. Those numbers are recomputed every few seconds as your speed varies.

This last bit (route ETA) allows you to accurately set yourself up for a precision arrival time.


Ohhh, and please add user defined waypoints that can be inserted by finger pointing as in "I want a waypoint here"

FFS please don't do it the way that Air Nav Pro does it with a gigantic list of waypoints and airports that you cannot easily search through.

Now all we need is an autopilot with a bluetooth interface to connect the Ipad.......


Don't want much, do I?

[Jack Ranga]

Well done boys :ok:

When is the overlay on approach charts coming?? :E

[greenslopes]

Is this a 'Gen Y' thing, I'm sorry but don't have a clue as to what you are alluding??

Map,plotter,magnetic variation,Ground speed, Stopwatch,1/60 rule....... there you see no electrickery required!!

[Bankstown Boy]

I loved version 1 - use it daily. I haven't been near a wifi, so have only loaded a few charts from version 2 but ... WOW!!!:D this'll get used every day too

The only thing I can add is - I want version 3 (the flight planning one) - when do I want it? NOW!!!:ok:

[Mr. Hat]

God I didn't think i was that old. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ushuaia]

Ver 2 is excellent. I trialed Ver 1 and thought "Yeah, perhaps i'll subscribe". Now having tried Ver 2 with the maps and position overlay I'm convinced: will definitely subscribe.

I'm finding a few bugs however: anyone else seeing the same? Notably, when selecting the Map Chooser, sometimes the the map of Aus is all distorted - either stretched or compressed - and then choosing a map by touching this distorted Aust is difficult as it doesn't line up with the selections anymore. I've had the program lock up a few times - seems to be when that Aus map is distorted and I try to select a map from a tab. A restart of OzRunways via a double-click on the iPad home button fixes it.

That aside, I am super impressed and will buy the Pro package - I'm confident the guys will be right onto any little quirks.

9.9 out of 10.

p.s. This is SO much more than just an Oz "Runways" program now and in such a short period of time - any thought being given to another name for the program?

[Dark Knight]

Is there or will there be an Android version?

[The Green Goblin]

The Hat,

He was basically saying what I said (in a round about way)

What we want is the ability to go to more than one location by touch. Such as a multi sector IFR plan, then overlay it on the WAC.

Right now you can only have one active leg at a time. So to your first waypoint.

I want to be able to click on the map and say I want to go here, then there, then there, then there, and have lines drawn between the places with ten mile markers all notched up (as an option) etc.

[Homesick-Angel]

These guys are talking about including many of the features mentioned in the above posts, but lets just stop for a minute and let it sink in as to just how awesome this thing is.
Bloody great effort, and although it is currently "unclear" as to CASA's stance on using this type of thing in flight, I dont believe it will be long before things such as this will be approved for in flight purposes as it is the way of the future..Saying that, CASA hasn't always shown its cutting edge qualities for getting on board with things that make sense, and are obvious progressions to the industry.
One thing tho.Im gonna have to buy an Ipad now, as I now have a reason to have one..:mad:

[SeaMoss]

Yep, flight planning is in and working at Muppet Labs. But we wanted to get a version out there ASAP. Look for flight planning as per Sunfish etc. ('touch and plan') later in the year. Also NAIPs integration, terrain, weather (TAFs, METARs and ARFORs), NOTAMS, airspace - all in 'R&D' - just have to be 'productised' :).

[We are all pilots and we want it all in ASAP as well]

Thanks for all comments - they of course drive us onwards and upwards and tell us where to go next.

Android .... we'll get there in time but for now it's an iPad thing - apologies.

[flyingfrenchman]

Hi,

Awesome app! Is there any chance of a jepp chart version?

Cheers

[blueloo]

Yes Jepp charts would be great...including enroute......

[Xcel]

Saw it today (captain can afford ipad fo's can't)

looks awesome - very very impressed. Have some vouchers for Harvey Norman so when they pull their finger out and get the ipad I'll update. Until then iPhone it is...

Would have to agree on the jepps charts and the flight planning options... Jepps before planning IMO...

Well done guys keep up the good work...

[The Green Goblin]

Yeah it would be nice if I can use Jepp charts instead of Airservices.

I also run jeppview on my Ipad although I still use paper charts in flight:}

[Shagpile]

Just take each of the good things out of command, champagne, flitestar and just pop them into a little app. Just leave out all the crappy things each product does.
Never used Champagne/command - we just put in what we want to see (more updates coming).

what do the following acronyms stand for:
No idea! They are in the data that Airservices provides us. If anybody knows, please let me know and I'll change their names!

When is the overlay on approach charts coming??
Down the track. Airservices hasn't geo-referenced approach plates, so we would have to do that ourselves. It is a long process...

sometimes the the map of Aus is all distorted - either stretched or compressed

Is there or will there be an Android version?
Put on the backburner for now, but yeah it will be released eventually. Maps will be a long way off (it requires a 100% rewrite so we have to look at the business case for it as our time is limited).

Is there any chance of a jepp chart version?
They have their own app. Don't think it does maps yet though. Maybe they are working on it...I'd love to get my hands on them though!

What we want is the ability to go to more than one location by touch. Such as a multi sector IFR plan, then overlay it on the WAC.
Will be out in v2.1 which we're working on now.

v2.0.1 bugfix release will be out shortly and will have better download queueing and the ability to direct-to to custom points.

Thanks for all the positive feedback. Hopefully CASA get onboard sooner than later - keep up your pressure on them :) Although tested a lot, it's still new software and there are bound to be some teething problems, so please fly safely & I observe our company position of Not for use in Air Navigation.

We're also having some server outages at the moment so please be patient (demand is overwhelming!) First was an entire downed sydney network for 30 minutes and now it looks like we've hit a circuit breaker with our bandwidth and they suspended our account. Resolving now...
[update] - Resolved. Turns out we were peaking at 80mb/s uploads which they didn't like! We've upgraded to a more expensive, redundant account now so this kind of thing shouldn't happen in the future. Sorry for any troubles this caused.

[Jabawocky]

works a treat on iphone.........Jaba off to buy an ipad ;)

[AussieNick]

Ozrunways EFB is the reason I brought an iPad 2 today, absolutely love it

[VH-XXX]

Make sure it's a 3G version Jaba. If you desperately need data, use it on your WIFI or get a pre-paid. You'll probably find that you don't need data very often if you already have an iPhone.

I've already offered my feedback privately, but in the public in case others can improve on it, I was after the ability to measure on the screen by drawing a line like you can on a 430 / 296 etc. If I'm going to fly past a CTAF I want to know how close I am going to be to it, so in essence a "multi goto" feature where the primary waypoint stays in memory, however an additional distance appears next to the line that I have just drawn.

Maybe a scale at the bottom of the map would be good too and custom waypoints - but keeping in mind that usually in TSO'ed GPS's such as airline jobbies, they often don't allow you to enter custom waypoints so that you don't screw up.

Great work gents, :ok::ok::ok:

[nitpicker330]

I've been using it all day at home, bloody good work fellas :ok:

Can't wait to try it out in the Aircraft for real.

I'll be interested to see if the on board GPS works ok in flight or not.

[Bell_Flyer]

Shagpile - awesome stuff. Just played with it today. You guys rock. :D

[Chimbu chuckles]

nitpicker330 I have used the ipad internal GPS in the back of a 777 (wont work in the front because of the heated windscreens) with the air nav pro charts and the speed/alt were pretty spot on...at climb speeds exceeding 450kts right up to FL360. I have used it in a C195 and, more recently, a C185 in/around Auckland. The internal GPS is pretty bloody good. As long as you held it somewhere near the pax window in the 777 it would pick up satellites work a treat. In any GA cockpit it will a doddle...still gonna get a bluetooth GPS engine shortly though.

I am sitting in LHR using the hotel free high speed wifi to do the June 2 amendments for Ozrunways 1.0 database and then will be hooking into the 2.0 downloads.

Awesome stuff fellas:ok:

[Dangly Bits]

Shagpile and the guys at Ozrunways, my hat goes off to you Sir! Well done.

Brilliant app. Will be buying the professional version also.

Cheers

DB

[FourBalls]

Does anybody know how to add user wpts/ ALA's into Ozrunways?

[rioncentu]

Yes extremely well done to Bas, Rowan and Neil. Fantastic to see some aussies designing an app for aussies. :D

Unreal. Keep up the good work.:D

Cheers

[185skywagon]

User wpts are in the pipeline, I believe.

[blueloo]

Whilst I know its an Oz program, does it have a world base map in the memory (not reliant on 3g to d/l on the fly)...

If not, is their any likelihood of expanding it in future updates to have a world map, world navaids, airports etc....


I hate trundling along the pacific in my basic fmc, non GPS jet, where the passenger inflight screen has a better map than we do (on our 1:450,000,000,00000000000 paper pacific jepp chart)

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

blueloo,

What the hell do you fly?

[uncopilot]

Love the idea of leaving the paper charts in the door pocket and using the iPad more. I have found it a little awkward trying to keep the iPad on my lap even in reasonably calm conditions. Not sure how I would go flying an approach in turbulence with the iPad moving around. I know there are kneeboards and yoke mounts now available after a quick search. What are people using and what seems to be the most useful for someone moving between aircraft regularly? By that I mean something reasonably portable.

Ozrunways is a great leap forward for Ozzie GA pilots, well done to the lads that made it. Can't wait for the evolutions to come.

[VH-XXX]

I have found it a little awkward trying to keep the iPad on my lap even in reasonably calm conditions.

Easy Uncopilot!

NATFLY, Knee Dock and Maps | OzRunways (http://www.ozrunways.com/site/2011/05/natfly-knee-dock-and-maps)

(probably not the exact link for the product, however you can still see it here)

[blueloo]

767 ! updated to early 1990's technology..... infact many of the emergency airports are not even in the FMC...

[UnaMas]

Used this today in the chieftain, awesome. Speeds, distances and estimated times were all the same as gps and never lost signal. Does chew through battery but when connected to 12v no problem.

Awesome being able to fly to IFR waypoints, love it, can't wait until a full flight plan can be put it.

I also have it on my wifi IPAD but only as a map reader at this stage. Can anyone remmomend a Bluetooth GPS receiver which will enable me to use the iPad?

[VH-XXX]

There were 2 or 3 links posted for external GPS units about a week ago but I'm not sure which thread it was in, there was the iPad navigation link, this one and another..... shouldn't be more than a page or two down the list.

[baswell]

Can anyone remmomend a Bluetooth GPS receiver which will enable me to use the iPad?
SeaMoss has been trying this one:

Universal GPS Receiver - Sporty's Pilot Shop (http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/16597)

Works a treat. As such, we are trying to get in touch with the manufacturer and become a distributor in Aus for it.

[UnaMas]

Cheers. Will buy.

[nitpicker330]

I have a wi fi 3G IPad 2 and I just tried it in the car while driving.
Without any Sim card fitted it picked up the GPS signal very quickly and was very accurate in both position and speed ALL of the trip to the shops and back :ok:

Fan bloody tastic.;)

[nitpicker330]

Although having said that it did pickup its position very quickly, I guess it knew where it was.

How does it go when you move the unit without it knowing then turn it on without any network data assistance to locate itself?

I assume it will only use the GPS to locate itself but it will take a while?

[Old Akro]

I flew from Mildura yesterday with Ozrunways 2 on an iPad2. It lost GPS a bit further than Ouyen and didn't regain it until past Bendigo on the way to Melbourne. The programme seems to have a dead reckoning feature, because the aircraft symbol kept tracking (erratically) for a while after the GPS signal was lost and a track & ground speed continued to be displayed long after signal was lost. Its the first time I've used it and I'm not fluent with it yet, but it doesn't appear that there is any indication of GPS integrity. I think this is poisonous. The other thing that bothers me is that despite having loaded the VIC ERC chart on the ground the night before (which I thought saved it locally), I could not access it in flight. The iPad was clearly looking to download it but couldn't due to lack of reception. This is probably operator error, but it turns the iPad into the usefulness of a brick if you slip up.

I had Jepp FliteDeck running beside the iPad on my LS800 and (at least from an IFR perspective) its seems more stable and changes pages / setup faster & more simply with a clear GPS integrity indication and greater setup flexibility. But its not a VFR device in any way.

Having said that, Ozrunways seems a useful VFR device. In my opinion it requires an external bluetooth GPS. If that GPS had a signal monitoring function it would address the bulk of my concerns.

[Sunfish]

AKRO is right a GPS integrity message is needed before there is an accident, especially if there is a DR capability built in.

My marine software has a voice message - "GPS Failure" when its lost.

[Homesick-Angel]

I was using it on my iphone today ( on the train:} ) , and it did tell me when the gps signal was good, poor or non existant..Top left corner green, yellow or red light. It also let me know what kind of error I could have been experiencing in metres.
It didnt go that well in the train, but have been playing with it (obsessively) since i downloaded it, and its been pretty accurate everywhere else. I can only assume the overhead wires were not being all that friendly to the signal?.

[Old Akro]

If I was smart enough to be able to upload photo's I'd show you a screen shot with a green dot, no airspeed or track data and the aeroplane icon pointing in a completely different direction than we were travelling. The green dot trial leading up to this point is erratic also, so it was clearly struggling before it gave up.

[Shagpile]

AKRO is right a GPS integrity message is needed before there is an accident, especially if there is a DR capability built in.

There is no DR capability built in. The app uses location data sent by the device. If the device thinks there is a good signal, it will display the position and the estimated error. If there is no signal, it will display "--" in the boxes, simple as that.

The internal GPS on the iPad 3G has shortcomings when going to places outside coverage, so best to get an external one. Some people report brilliant reception at FL350 and some report crappy performance at 4500ft.

Take note of the "Not for use in Air Navigation" people; your Gamin says a similar thing when you turn it on and press "Accept". Until CASA say otherwise, please use as informational/safety backup device - just like you're meant to do with your non-TSO'd Garmin.

Note: If CASA copy the FAA rules like they say they are doing now, then we may be able to remove the "Not for Air Navigation" message, but I'd suggest from reading the documents that there will still be a warning regarding use of "own-ship positon" features on maps. It may be more time again before they approve this, and it may be external GPS only. Who knows.

[rioncentu]

Well said Shaggy.

People remember this is a $100 app on a "computer"

We can't expect it to perform miracles and if one relies on it and an accident occurs through said reliance, well then :mad::mad::mad:

Hell you have to pay $10,000 to get an IFR GPS that doesn't come close to the abilities of OR2. But that price is paid for how reliable it is "supposed" to be.

Cheers

[baswell]

If I was smart enough to be able to upload photo's I'd show you a screen shot with a green dot, no airspeed or track data and the aeroplane icon pointing in a completely different direction than we were travelling. The green dot trial leading up to this point is erratic also, so it was clearly struggling before it gave up.
Can you email the images to [email protected]? We'd love to take a look at it.

If you ever notice any problems, you can take a screenshot of the iPad by pressing and holding the home and power buttons together until the screen flashes. The image will be in the photos app and from there you can email them to us.

Even better if you also have a video camera handy and can video the behaviour.

The more info we get, the more we can debug!

Thanks for your help and support, guys.

[Jabawocky]

Have not seen the cone of silence yet, but I am amazed how well it works in my office, most gps struggle and this one works so it's no worse than others.

Keep up the good work!

40+ hour test coming up ove the next few weeks, will keep you posted enroute if Mrs Jaba will let me use the iPad.

[Capt Fathom]

a GPS integrity message is needed before there is an accident, especially if there is a DR capability built in.
My marine software has a voice message - "GPS Failure" when its lost.

Don't tell me.
You drive one of those cars that has engraved on the rear view mirror...objects that appear here are actually behind you!
:ugh:

[Sunfish]

Capt Fathom, nope, it's just that the marine software has a dead reckoning mode. It is therefore important to know which mode you are in as confusion can prove fatal.

The voice alerts are very useful since I'm often sailing single handed with a lot of stuff to do.

Both in the air and on the water, I work on the old saw: "never pass up an opportunity to fix your position." GPS can sometimes do strange things and when that happens a pencil mark and a time on a paper chart are your best friend.

I've had that experience integrating my marine system with its Laptop, flux gate compass, gyro, GPS, integrated log and wind instruments and Autopilot. I can assure you that it is very disorienting when the various bits start disagreeing with each other, and the safest thing to do is turn everything off, get out the chart, and play with the toys when safely at anchor.

To put it another way "A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with Two is never quite sure."

Anyway, hopefully at the end of the month I'll give the software and iPad a Two week workout with some outback touring. I'll be able to compare Ozrunways with the aircrafts TSO'd GPS and moving map system.

[VH-XXX]

That's all a bit of an overkill for port Phillip Bay Sunny!

[Sunfish]

XXX:

That's all a bit of an overkill for port Phillip Bay Sunny!

Not the other day in the fog it wasn't, and a lot of my sailing is single handed. If i really want to stress the poor little PC, I make it play a DVD in one window while chart plotting in the other :)

[Sunfish]

Does anyone know if an external bluetooth GPS will work with a WiFi iPad2 with internal GPS and OzRunways?

There seems to be some doubt if this can be done without adding third party software from a non apple source.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yes Sunfish:

GNS 5870 MFI GPS Bt Receiver ("WAAS" Enabled) or another called bad Elf. The former is Bluetooth and the later plugs into the charging port. I have heard both work well but the latter feels a little fragile. I am planning on buying the former and clipping it to the sun visor.

[Sunfish]

As usual when I post a question on Pprune, I stumble over the answer myself a few minutes later.

The Dual XGPS150 works on Ipads 1 and 2, with or without GPS receivers, and I've ordered one.

[Jabawocky]

Does anyone stock them or do you have to wait two weeks?

[aldee]

Was just about top order a dual from sporty's, us$99.95
Any local suppliers/cheaper?

[185skywagon]

Bas,
I have done 34 hours flying with it in the last week.
No real probs except there are issues with WAC charts and true positions at close zooms.
This might also be tied in with the occasional gap in map display at close zoom.
Will put a list together for you blokes.
185.

[Old Akro]

I use a Haicom bluetooth GPS engine with the LS80 & Jeppview. I haven't tried it with the ipad yet. I got it from Johnny Appleseed who do mail order. There are heaps of them on ebay too.

[baswell]

No real probs except there are issues with WAC charts and true positions at close zooms.
My first instinct is to say: that's because the WACs are of poor quality! Have a look at Strathalbyn. Yeah, it's right on where two WACs were stitched together (Port Augusta and Adelaide) and it's clear it is marked in different locations on each map. Although usually close, I would take the true position of anything on a WAC with a pinch of salt... (something you are unlikely to notice when dead reckoning.)

That said: if you can find multiple point that are out of place in the same area, especially if you see roads not match up, there could be an issue with the geocoding of an individual map, so do let us know!

Bas.

[baswell]

Was just about top order a dual from sporty's, us$99.95
Any local suppliers/cheaper?
We're trying to talk to Dual, but they haven't been very responsive. We'd love to re-sell them in Aus because they are the best option for getting good accuracy out of OzRunways.

[baswell]

GNS 5870 MFI GPS Bt Receiver ("WAAS" Enabled)
WAAS doesn't work in Australia. In fact, if you manage to pick up a signal on the east coast on a good day, you are more likely to decrease your accuracy. So if your GPS supports WAAS, make sure it is disabled in Australia!

Other than that, the receiver should do the job quite nicely.

[nitpicker330]

Used it today whilst flying in a PA28 and it worked a treat!!
The GPS locked on quickly and was exactly the same as the Garmin GNS430.

However, I'm not sure how it will go on a knee pad, the yoke would bash the screen easily and that wouldn't be good:ooh:

[b_sta]

Had a play with this in the air yesterday, very impressed! Only thing I noticed is that it seems that position on the map, completed track etc doesn't update unless I manually move/touch/zoom in or out of the map. I assume that's not supposed to be the case? Any ideas?

[Shagpile]

I noticed is that it seems that position on the map, completed track etc doesn't update unless I manually move/touch/zoom in or out of the map

Yeah sorry that's a stupid bug that we missed because we did all our testing with the "moving map mode" on [the button that turns blue in the bottom left].

I've fixed that for v2.0.1 coming out soon. In the mean time just make sure moving-map mode is enabled.

[VNE405]

Bas, my understanding of WAC charts is that they are individual snapshots from the globe rather than a 'cut' map (like falconview can do) and are never meant to be stitched together. What backs this up is I had a wall of paper WAC charts. None of the charts lined up and interpretation was needed to draw accurate pencil tracks for planning.

Cheers

[PyroTek]

VNE, that is because they are Lambert projections.:ok: - They should line up edge to edge (not top to bottom) but in an arc...

[VNE405]

Thanks champ. Do you always value add.

[baswell]

Bas, my understanding of WAC charts is that they are individual snapshots from the globe rather than a 'cut' map (like falconview can do) and are never meant to be stitched together. What backs this up is I had a wall of paper WAC charts. None of the charts lined up and interpretation was needed to draw accurate pencil tracks for planning.
That's correct in the printed versions. However, if you know the actual positions in the corners, you can make them square and cut them into tiles for use in an electronic mapping application.

That's what we do for OzRunways and it works very well. The only downside is cut-off labels (town names) on some stitches. Nothing that will get you lost.

Hopefully one of these decades electronic maps will become the standard and we won't have those problems. Instead, AsA will create a perfect full-country electronic WAC and it's the dinosaurs using the printed versions that will have sub-optimal cut outs! :)

[VNE405]

Cheers Bas. I was chatting to Shagpile about it this afternoon. Busy times!

[Xcel]

Have you guys seen flight guide?? Few ideas from them would go down a treat. Specifically the option to add jepp plates and other goodies to the mix... I would even pay more for the privilege...

[Shagpile]

they are Lambert projections
We get the WAC charts from Airservices in WGS84 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System). Warp them into Mercator, stitch them together then tile them. Takes about 8hrs for my Macbook to process them all.

Have you guys seen flight guide??
Only pics online - Note that the USA has open access to all their aeronautical data, which is also has geo-referenced approach plates. We will have to do all this manually.

What this means is that you see a lot more different, innovative apps coming out of USA as there isn't the massive startup risk involving $10k+ (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/datasales/default.asp) just to buy the data.

I doubt Jepp will give anybody their charts (correct me if I'm wrong?) as they have their own app they are pushing. They aren't sharing the DO-160E testing (rapid decompression to FL510) either, instead keeping it as a company asset they can share to customers to help them work with the FAA to get approval to use Jepp/iPad.

We've donated to paperlesscockpit.com (http://www.paperlesscockpit.com/2011/05/ipad-kaboom-a-community-project/) who are about to conduct a "community sponsored" decompression testing. We'll have the results in a month or two hopefully. I'd encourage anybody else who is interested in the results to donate too (so you get a free copy of the testing report).

[rattly_spats]

From the preceding discussion about OzRunways (which sounds like a sensational app) this might appear a silly question, but I have been saving up to buy myself a Garmin Aera 500 sometime this year. Now I wonder if I should buy myself an iPad and this app/subscription, for a similar all-up price -- and you've the iPad for all the other stuff you can do with it, both aeronautical and otherwise.

Is this a no-brainer? How does OzRunways compare to the Jepps-based stuff in the Aera 500? Have specialised units like the Aera had their day?

Thanks in advance, Rattly.

[AussieNick]

dumb question, but you mention that you don't need an active internet connection to view the maps, you can download them before hand. I take it you mean caching, where I have to view the maps on an interne connection before hand, eg browse and let load the entire Darwin WAC before I can use it offline? How long does the cache last and will I be able to zoom the map offline?

[VH-XXX]

Nick - the cache lasts until the new map is released. I wouldn't call it "cache" but rather a "download."

You don't have to browse the map beforehand (like Google earth), you simply go into the download section of the app and choose the relevant VTC / VNC etc. Those are roughly 12-13 MB each. The WAC is a one-piece download somewhere in the mid 200 mb's. You can download all VNC's etc or none, your choice. If you're on a good connection it's pretty quick, or drop by McDonalds on the way home from work.

Yes, indeed you can zoom all of the maps offline, assuming they have been pre-downloaded.

As someone that knows a little about IT, the only risk I see with it is when there are thousands of subscribers and it ticks over the new map period, everyone will hit the downloads page and bring the OzRunways ISP down, but I'm assured that the boys at OzRunways have taken this into consideration and increased their download limits :ok:

[Keg]

Do I get a spotter's fee? With version 1.0 I signed up a whole bunch of QF drivers. Now with the WACs and other charts everyone who has a look and has an Ipad (and didn't already have Ozrunways) is looking to sign up. Those that don't have an ipad are seriously thinking about getting one on the basis of this app alone.

It certainly makes trans continental flying much more enjoyable. Now all I need is a bluetooth GPS for the ipad because plotting via lat/long is giving me a sore neck looking at the overhead panel and then back down to the ipad every few minutes or so.

[blueloo]

Forget the sore neck...go with the RSI KEG - press a few more buttons on the modern FMC and get your LAT LONG from there...

[nitpicker330]

Hey Keg doesn't the 76 have a Pos page on it's FMC?

[blueloo]

yup nitpicker it does ...hence my post above to KEG .... but methinks its easier to bend your neck back and look up at the IRS display rather than flipping through the FMC index...

[nitpicker330]

Lay the ol seat back and rest your head on the head rest........zzzzzzzzzzz

After you wake up from controlled rest check the Lat Long :ok:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Anyone been able to get Oz 2.0 to work in a Boeing (besides Stearman) cockpit?

Works just fine peering out a pax window but I have not been able to get a satellite lock in the 777 cockpit.

Maybe the rear side windows might work in the 767 Keg.:ok:

[nitpicker330]

I've spent ages trying to get my Garmin Nuvi to lock on in both the 777 and A330 cockpits, it will but never for very long!!

Down the back it works just fine ( as you've said )

Makes the average Speed a little to high but impresses friends in my car when I show them my max speed of 1000km/h ……...:}

[rjtjrt]

Maynot be relevant but an Airbus pilot used my Garmin GPSMAP296 in cockpit of A340 very succesfully (standard on unit antenna).
John

[Sunfish]

I would have thought that the windscreen heaters make a perfect Faraday cage in the front, so no reception.

Eyebrow windows are a thing of the past, and i can't remember if the opening side windows are heated (with conductive film) or not.

[Willyboy]

Will there be an option to cache data on your computer so as the data can be shared between your iphone and Ipad? stoping double downloading.

[Shagpile]

everyone will hit the downloads page and bring the OzRunways ISP down
Yeah this happened for 30 minutes on opening day (as 300 gb was downloaded in about 12 hrs...they weren't very happy). We've moved all our big files over to rackspace cloud hosting (http://rackspace.com/) (a more mainstream, reliable & redundant system) so it shouldn't happen again. The files are available for about 3 weeks before the new amendment anyway, so there is always sufficient time to download the new ones before a big trip away.

Will there be an option to cache data on your computer so as the data can be shared between your iphone and Ipad? stoping double downloading.
No you'll have to download them individually; it's not that much data really (15mb average per map, plus 150mb for DAP amendments). ERSA is 20mb, AIP is 6mb. WAC is about 200mb but you only need to do that once (They only change half of Australia every 2 years). 4x a year for ERSA/AIP/DAP, and 2x a year for maps.

Works just fine peering out a pax window but I have not been able to get a satellite lock in the 777 cockpit.
Yeah I have the same problem with my heated windows. Apparently bluetooth GPS is the trick (with much better fixes/updates too).

This was from a pax trip to Perth today out the back window:

http://ozrunways.com/email_images/6.png
http://ozrunways.com/email_images/7.png

[Capt Claret]

Chuckles, worked fine in the Douglas/Boeing 717 t'other night. Only tried for a few mins but it showed us on the airway, correct altitude give or take a bit, and accurate ground speed. :ok:

[Sunfish]

Ordered a knee dock. I'm not sure that anyone has found the ideal solution for holding this thing yet, so I'm prepared to experiment.

[VH-XXX]

I'm trying a windscreen suction mount for $10 delivered from DealExtreme.com

[Sunfish]

Hopefully compare notes in a few weeks time.:ok:

[AussieNick]

Shags, I take it those extra screens, (eta, EET, BDG, HSI Arc etc) are extras when you subscribe from the trial?

[Homesick-Angel]

Has anyone found a good solution (apart from the suction cap to the window thingy) to hooking the Iphone in a position that it is readable? At this stage I cant afford the Ipad(not for a few months anyway bugger it:mad:).

I though something that attaches to the yoke might be a goer kinda like those Garmin clips?

And Nick
You need to hit direct to:
Just tap your finger on the screen near where you wanna go, and it will give you options.Select the option you desire, and it will then give you eet etc.:ok:

And of course, just as I ask the question I find (http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/16241) what Im looking for

[AussieNick]

Well now, don't I feel like a right idiot :}

[rjtjrt]

Homesick Angel
Maybe cheaper here
RAM Mount iPhone 3G 3GS Clamp Mount RAP-B-121-AP6, RAP-B-121-AP6U (http://www.gpscity.com/ram-mount-iphone-3g-3gs-clamp-mount-rap-b-121-ap6.html)
I think GPSCity is run by an expat Aussie with a bad Canadian accent (see it on the instruction/demo video's for each item you look up).
John

[Des Dimona]

Couldn't get it to lock on anywhere in the A320 flight deck.

[baswell]

Shags, I take it those extra screens, (eta, EET, BDG, HSI Arc etc) are extras when you subscribe from the trial?
The extra row appears when you do a direct to. The full HSI comes up when you tap the small compass screen.

[Ultralights]

Has anyone found a good solution (apart from the suction cap to the window thingy) to hooking the Iphone in a position that it is readable?
if there is enough room on your panel, i found a piece of adhesive back velcro worked wonders. hook side stuck to panel in clear spot, loop side stuck to iphone cover. worked a treat.

[Keg]

Chime Chuck, no joy on the 767. I'm looking at a Bluetooth GPS for it.

[porch monkey]

Used it quite a few times now in the 737, both up front and paxing, doesn't seem to have any real problems finding satellites. Bit slow sometimes but always comes through.

[Jabawocky]

You have some extra windows I think ;)

[altocu]

Keg,

I've had it working for the last two days. My iPad is in a leather case, and I've had it wedged in landscape orientation on my (F/Os) side of the compass. It takes a little while to lock on to the signal, but once it does works well.

Cheers

[Masif Eego]

A great gadget...

and told the ramp cops today..."only using it to check that me late arriving Jepp amdts were correct"...impressed him no end..:ok:

[AussieNick]

and told the ramp cops today..."only using it to check that me late arriving Jepp amdts were correct"...impressed him no end..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Well played!

[Sunfish]

The Dual Xgps150 arrived from Crackberry in Florida Monday Avo. It was ordered Friday am Melbourne time so it shipped Friday US time. $150 including freight via UPS.

Hitches up in about Two minutes flat.

One thing though is it appears to be using a different datum from whatever Google earth is using because its consistently out by a hundred feet in both directions, not that it matters right now.

[baswell]

I was just informed that Mendelssohn now stocks the GNS 5870 in Australia:

GNS 5870 GPS Bluetooth receiver for iPad (http://www.ozpilot.com/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=&P_ID=954)

We have not tested this one, but there is no reason to suspect it won't work...

If anyone already has one, we'd love to hear about your experiences.

I'll be in Oshkosh next month and I suspect I will investigate and buy samples of a fair few interesting ways to use the iPad in the cockpit. I am sure there will be plenty on offer this year.

EDIT: I have just ordered one. Will let people know how it goes.

[denist]

There are heaps of cheap bluetooth gps receivers on Ebay. I know they can't be used on an Ipad unless Steve Jobs says so but if you jailbreak the Ipad any bluetooth gps will communicate with it.

[Shagpile]

One thing though is it appears to be using a different datum from whatever Google earth is using because its consistently out by a hundred feet in both directions, not that it matters right now.

I'm not sure which datum Apple uses for measuring GPS Altitude. Their documentation states only:
Positive values indicate altitudes above sea level.

Now I'm assuming if they have said "Sea Level" then they are using the WGS84 ellipsoid approximation of Earth, which most GPS units report altitude at. It probably doesn't apply the correction model to determine that actual height above sea level though, since the ellipsoid model can be out by 100ft at various parts of Earth.

I'd be interested to see if the GPS alt reported by Apple is different/similar to the GPS altitude on airliners especially. We may then be able to apply the corrected model to get a more accurate representation of AMSL.

EDIT: Found an answer on the Apple developer forums. An Apple representative says:
- iPhone 4 & iPad use the WGS84 ellipsoid Corrected for local variations in elevation. They don't say, but this most likely uses the WGS84 + EGM96 model (as used by Google Earth).
- iPhone 3GS and iPhone3G only reference compared to the WGS84 ellipsoid, much like your airline/handheld GPS does. This means your true altitude above the ocean may be out by about 100ft, but will probably be the same as your FMS GPS output.

Unfortunately you can't tell in code whether you're running iPhone4 or iPhone 3GS, so I can't apply a correction to the iPhone 3GS GPS altitude to make it true (local) AMSL.

Edit again - Yeah I'm working on Track-up now

[Keg]

Does it have a 'track up' option? I don't mind if the names are sideways, upside down, etc but having track up as an option saves me from having to move it around as much to get a 'map to ground' orientation.

Absolutely LOVE having the IFR waypoints on the WAC for transcontinental. Can't wait until I can load the plan and have 10nm markers on the track line.

Left it for quite sometime on the dash today. No joy with the GPS. I'll give it another go tomorrow altocu.

[VH-XXX]

Keg, what are you using, an iPhone or an iPad? If iPad, is it the 3G model, as it doesn't have a GPS built in, hence the comments about sourcing a 3rd party one.

Track up? I thought it was only women that used track up, like when reading a road map.... apparently it's well known that women prefer track up and men prefer north up.

[Sunfish]

Shagpile, the XGPS150 is now "behaving" properly and giving me positions within 5 to ten metres according to Tom Tom, Google maps and my Navonics marine software (which i know to be correct wrt. position and datum) so I think it was just taking its time to autocorrelate.

[Capt Fathom]

Keg. Do you have the Airplane Mode Switch ON or OFF?

I couldn't get the gps to work, then tried with the Airplane Mode switch OFF. Locked on straight away. Maybe just a coincident. Haven't had a chance to try it again. Just remember to turn off the 3G and the Wifi, otherwise you'll have to reprimand yourself. :E

[Dehavillanddriver]

Perhaps I am being a bit dim (don't answer that!) but is there a way of entering a planned track?

I thought I read that you could enter the route in, but can't find where or how. I can't get the HSI up either.

Any clues most gratefully accepted!

[VH-XXX]

is there a way of entering a planned track?

Yes. Press on the destination and it will come up with the airport details, eg, VOR, NDB, AP, select airport, then "direct to" and you are good to go.

The HSI isn't displaying because you don't have a track selected.

[AussieNick]

To add to what XXX said, once you have a destination selected, press on the compass (second from the right, bottom row) and that will bring up the HSI, click on the hdg/crs bug and moving them will change the valve and pinching on the HSI will resize it just like you would anything else on the ipad

[PyroTek]

I couldn't get the gps to work, then tried with the Airplane Mode switch OFF. Locked on straight away.

Unfortunately with the iPhone, the Aeroplane Mode switch, when ON, not only disables the Antenna but also disables the GPS antenna. The only way to work the GPS on it is with Aeroplane Mode OFF.:ugh:

[Hawker114]

Does the GPS work on the ipad 2 even in aeroplane mode?
As this would save battery life.
Gps doesnt work on my iphone 3gs in aeroplane mode. So I leave it off but it drains battery very quickly.

[Keg]

XXX, 3G IPAD with aeroplane mode on. When you open Ozrunways, GPS still comes up as 'active'. Left it on the dash today for 10+ minutes and couldn't get anything to 'lock on'. Did drain the battery like the GPS was on though. Having flown 'track up' on Boeings for the last 16 years, it's jus something i've become used to.

The external GPS is so that I can be more assured of getting an actual position and don't have to work out my position from lat/ long all the time. That said, having the IFR waypoints showing on the WAC certainly makes it easier to orientate yourself.

Capt Fathom, I thought I had tried with aeroplane mode off previously but can't remember for sure. It'll be about four weeks before I can try again (yay for holidays) so I'll have to leave it for a bit. Obviously most of the flying I do is outside of 3G coverage anyway.

[Sunfish]

Aeroplane mode disables "location services" - which is the memory stack that serves up GPS locations to applications that want it. The external Bluetooth GPS units can't be "seen" by the apps if this is turned off either.

[VH-XXX]

Perhaps the words "aeroplane mode" are confusing - it should be off when in an aircraft to use the GPS and thus OZRunways, but it should be ON when we are travelling in an airliner. So in theory, it would not be legal (or at least company ops for pax) to have an iPad operating with aeroplane mode OFF.....

[Shagpile]

You can manually turn off transmitting services but not have it in Airplane mode (so the GPS still works)
- Turn WiFi off
- Turn Bluetooth off
- Cellular Data off

[PyroTek]

I'm assuming that disables 3G/Data Transfer but doesn't disable the protocol used to make calls and send sms's..

[Ultralights]

and dont forget to shut down all apps running in the background to save power. double press the home button and a list of open apps will appear, touch the icon for a few sec and they will start to shake, you can shut them off. extends battery life.

[PyroTek]

Ultralights, I'm almost OCD with this function. I do it about every 30 minutes on my iPhone:E

[Shagpile]

doesn't disable the protocol used to make calls and send sms's..
Sorry you're correct for iPhone - I was meaning iPad. I can't confirm 100% whether it's zero transmissions, but even the little icon changes to "iPad" instead of "Carrier" or "Telstra" at the top when you disable data.

you can shut them off. extends battery life.
Yes and no - 95% of apps are actually suspended when in background. Apple multi-tasking isn't real multi-tasking like on a mac/pc where the app is still actually running. When you quit back to the home screen, your app gets 10 seconds to tidy up anything before the operating system suspends it. Apple deliberately chose this method to SAVE battery...

All it means on iPad is that the app starts up from where you left off. If the current running app gets short of memory, it starts killing background apps anyway. OzRunways uses a lot of memory so most likely all your background apps will be killed anyway, which is why menu's are a bit jerky loading initially after running OzRunways. There are a couple of exceptions to apps running in the background, like VoIP apps that can specifically be enabled always, but it's not normal behaviour.

The irony is you may be using more battery by having the screen on every half hour killing apps. If you want to save real power, disable 3G & make email check every hour (or manually) instead of 15 minutes.

[aldee]

Shagpile & crew

any thoughts on doing an app for NZ ?

[Shagpile]

Yeah already talking to airways nz

[aldee]

good work:ok:

[Jabawocky]

Oz Runways guys and girls :ok::ok::ok::ok:

Been across QLD and SA and now in the NT....so far :D:D:D

[OverheadPanel]

Anyone know if you can manually enter your Lat/Long to update aircraft position. (iphone version...) Stuffed if I can find a way to do it.

[PyroTek]

OHP: I highly doubt it, unfortunately.

[baswell]

Anyone know if you can manually enter your Lat/Long to update aircraft position. (iphone version...) Stuffed if I can find a way to do it.
You can't. I assume this is because you want to put in a direct to from somewhere you currently are not?

We're working on full flight planning now, so you will be able to do this in a couple of months.

Cheers,
Bas.

[OverheadPanel]

Ah, not so much that, although not a bad idea, more that I don't have an external GPS and can't get a signal through the windows.

I was thinking of an older program which had the ability to manually enter your position and update it as required.

You could also enter some variables you knew...such as IAS, groundspeed, track, HDG. and could then plot your track based on what info you had provided.

Obviously the plot is only so good for as long as you update the info...

...but should you have a valid GPS signal, then adding those variables you know from the aircraft can be useful for working out things such as your wind (headwind/tailwind) etc. (Bit like a garmin pilot GPS)

[Ultralights]

Ozrunways was the incentive i needed, (well, excuse) to buy myself an Ipad. Love it now, and not just for Ozrunways!, shame as i just had a nice Garmin Aera550 installed. :(

[AussieNick]

Had my first run with ozrunways in the aircraft yesterday and all I can say is wow. I was amazed with how smooth and accurate it was. Defiantly subscribing to it from here on in.

[Sunfish]

Just completed around Eighteen hours flying with Ozrunways over the last Ten days. Comments for what they are worth below:

1. Beg borrow or steal an iPad and buy Ozrunways, don't leave home or fly without it.

2. Get a 3G iPad, with the Naips program you can get your weather and file your flight plan if necessary anywhere you have Telstra 3G access - even half way between Arkaroola and Maree at Five thousand feet.

3. Ozrunways needs a few tweeks to be even better, most of these I expect are already noted.

a) Multiple route segments and user defined waypoints.

b) The ability to plan a route from some place other than where you are now. Together with the multi segment feature, this allows you to do the "what if?" planning stuff on the ground. If you could also add a notional TAS and winds, then you have the guts of a flight plan; then I could leave my E6B in its bag.

c) In the aircraft, a few Ozrunways features need a "confirm" button, starting with the red "cancel" button on the "direct to" feature", handing your iPad to a passenger who fumbles it a little means you have to set up again.

d) similarly that night visibility button needs to be highlighted when in night mode so that you can easily undo it in broad daylight when said passenger fumbles with the screen.

e) It would be nice if the VTC, VNC, ERC's etc defaulted to the one your aircraft is on, I know you should know which map you are on, but it saves time, I think.

f) Range rings around the aircraft at Five, Ten, Fifteen and Twenty nautical miles might be nice - of 5, 10, 15 minutes?


4. The ERSA being available at the touch of the screen is simply wonderful, end of story. The ERC's take the sting out of finding when to change area frequencies.

To sum up, just a great Application, simply magic, makes even a duffer like me look good when you can say "estimate overhead in Twelve".

5. Don't bother going to Marree unless you absolutely have to.

[mcgrath50]

Shouldn't that be Wun Too minutes Sunfish? :E

Doing a trip in a few weeks and can't wait to give OzRwys a go!

[VH-XXX]

Spoke with Jabba last night. He has been out for a long time all across Australia and has had no issues with the iPad losing it's position even when hundreds of miles from mobile coverage - hence he does not need an externally attached GPS.

Jabba is using the 3G model iPad but does not have a SIM card inserted.

[Sunfish]

McGrath50:

Shouldn't that be Wun Too minutes Sunfish?


Mate, I'm lucky if I can even get the correct hour in Zulu time. "Twelve" is a big improvement!

[Jabawocky]

XXX

Yep..... It is doing good. As you said.:ok:

Only bug is its displaying an old position after changing things around, a quick pan in or out updates the map etc.

Rowan etc might want to work on that. Will be in Adeliade region next week if you want to compare notes.

[VH-XXX]

Heard from another source today that CASA have allegedly approved it's use for Day VFR and they are telling people this on their roadtrips. I guess we wait for the official piece of paper.


Mine went well as a backup today, I preflighted the plane went into the office and back to the hangar, took off, 5 mins out went to grab the map and realized that someone had taken my bag out with maps and ersa, kept going anyway and it performed flawlessly. Only thing is to make sure you have a cigarette lighter cable as the battery may not last long using it. The only issue I had today was the ersa needed updating and I had no signal, descended down, opened the entry I needed then climbed again, my fault but again, it was only being used as a backup. Had no issues with gps coverage and I had no 3G signal or most of the trip.

[altocu]

I recently received my Dual Bluetooth GPS. I've been unable to get it to work reliably in the air, and on checking the company website, found that there's a firmware update that should provide better ops above FL320.

"A firmware update which resolves the XGPS150 high altitude issue is available. Please contact customer support at [email protected] or 866-382-5476 for the update and installation instructions."

[clotted]

Does the car cigarette lighter charger rated 10-18v DC work OK in an aircraft? Does it have the potential to do damage to the Ipad?
Thanks.

[compressor stall]

The iPad charges at 2.1amp/10w which is higher than an iPhone. Jaycar have a small cig plug for about $12 with iPhone and iPad charging USB ports.

3.1A Dual USB Car Adaptor - Jaycar Electronics (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3664&keywords=iPad&form=KEYWORD)

[VH-XXX]

There are stacks of chargers for the iPad and iPhone on dealextreme.com No freight charges by the way, wysiwyg. I use them sometimes, never an issue.

[Jabawocky]

Well after 48 hours of Tach time around Australia, the iPad was Awesome and the OzRunways was unbeatable.

I did use the Jepp app during a couple of RNAV's and one was knee deep in IMC and I can testify its better than the paper chart by a long way. (and yes I had them too :p)

I do want to know though where all the airport data has come from. Can somebody tell me where YHHN is? Allegedly Hahndorf, and a might fine part of the world it is but even the resident guru "Mr Debonair" has no idea and it did not seem to be his home strip....nor has he registered it with anyone.

I am convinced this is the best thing for single pilot cockpit resources in a long time. :D

[VH-XXX]

Wow hey, who would have thought, an AUSTRALIAN company making a world class product. Good work guys :ok:

[Ultralights]

Sad thing is, Quite a few companies come up with world class products, only we encourage them all off overseas... :ugh:

[AussieNick]

Jabba I was wondering that myself, coming back from a week in WA last week I noticed a few strips that popped up on the iPad that upon closer inspection weren't there....

All in all an amazing product, it is my hope that CASA pull their finger out and give us the ability to use this as another awareness aid in the cockpit

[Jabawocky]

its Jaba...........not Jabba....:ugh:

But all that aside, I have to agree Nick, you have to be sure.....mind you some might have been farm strips at some time in the past but have over grown.

In the event of an emergency chances are the strip is still there, and better than an uncertain surface.

Anyone know about the YHHN?

[Aussie Bob]

it is my hope that CASA pull their finger out and give us the ability to use this as another awareness aid in the cockpit

I think you were using it as an awareness aid on your WA trip last week :cool:

I used mine in flight yesterday for the first time. Simply awesome. The maps are now confined to the flight bag in the back and a huge pile of paper has disappeared from my cockpit. I think I will always carry paper maps but my bet is they will remain folded, stowed and in new condition.

[spirax]

I wonder why Apple choose to deactive GPS when flight mode is selected on the iphone? There is no legal requirement to do so. Even in the USA it is an airline requiement not one of the FAA. GPS except perhaps in some parts of Europe is not prohibited for use in an aircraft as it is not a transmitter. To use this program on an iPhone and use the GPS, flight mode cannot be selected.
Nokia on the other hand do not bar GPS when flight mode is selected, so why apple??? Nobody in Apple Australia seems to understands this?? It would be intersting to know who advises Apple on such matters???? Selecting Australia as a region for example should change the time and date formats used in Australia and change "airplane" (ug!) to "flight" mode.........amoungst other things... why cant we set these things up as we prefer????????????????:ugh::ugh:

As for OzRunways... great stuff!

[Sunfish]

Spirax, I think the GPS deactivation is a predictable response to American security paranoia. An American passenger will go ape**** when his GPS tells him his flight is diverted and that will be the end of that.

[ANCIENT]

WHY do you need CASA approval to use iPad as aid to Navigation?
Where in the regs does it say your current version of documents must be hard copy?

[spirax]

Sunfish... yes I agree, however in the US it is the airlines that make that ban, not the regs. How come a Nokia phone does not lock out GPS in flight mode, but Apple does?? It is a world wide phone and the software should account for that. Besides a stand alone GPS will work, so why not the one the iPhone??

[Sunfish]

Spirax, in the twisted paranoid mind of American security consultants, the fact that a passenger might know exactly where the aircraft is, via GPS, is only a very short step from the passenger seizing control of the aircraft and directing it, via his little GPS, somewhere harmful.

To put it another way: "Ignorance is strength!" What possible legal reason would a passenger have for knowing where he is? Trying to acquire such information is therefore obviously suspect.

Regarding CASA, there is a requirement in VFR for the pilot to fix their position every Thirty minutes. I prove I do this by marking my paper chart accordingly. I believe that some, but perhaps not all, CASA staff will also accept a stored iPhone or iPad forecast acquired via NAIPS as evidence of complying with the weather forecast requirement.

However, if your battery runs out and you ain't got pencil and paper chart, you are most probably stuffed, unless you have the time and capability to build a gridded sheet and start plotting lats and longs from ERSA, marking in Navaids, etc.

Clarification from CASA would be nice to have.

And a P.S. If I was flying outside my own patch, I would want a manual backup or Two apart from the iPad anyway. I can testify from my marine experience that when your GPS/Plotter/Compass/Autopilot system goes tits up in the middle of the night or bad weather it is extremely disconcerting until you drag out your paper chart and start plotting.

[AussieNick]

Aussie Bob: Indeed I was using it last week, Along with the aircrafts GPS and the WAC chart beside me :ok:

[baswell]

I do want to know though where all the airport data has come from. Can somebody tell me where YHHN is? Allegedly Hahndorf, and a might fine part of the world it is but even the resident guru "Mr Debonair" has no idea and it did not seem to be his home strip....nor has he registered it with anyone.
That data is from AsA. You know the encode/decode-only ALAs in ERSA? We get coordinates for them too.

But you are right, there's some rather questionable ones in there! I reckon there must have been something there are at some time and registered with (probably) the CAA, keeping in mind that some time was likely before GPS, with a rough measurement on a WAC as source and while it seems to be someone's backyard now, could have been an actual strip miles away many moons ago.

I reckon it will have to be a community effort to clean this up. Although no start has been made on it yet, we do envisage functionality in OzRunways where you can comment on any airfield and see other user's comments. This could be anything from: "phone local pilot John for strip info" and "avgas bowser broken 15/7/2011" to reporting the airfield is not really an airfield. (for those familiar with the area.)

By making entering that data only available inside the app and to paid-up users only; the risk of it being vandalised/abused becomes extremely low. We're pilots, we look out for each other, right?

[VH-XXX]

I'm waiting for the feature that shows me live on the screen where Jaba is in his Retard Vehicle.

I've been sitting beside Jaba when we were head-on with a Bell 412 Rescue Chopper and a closing speed of over 300 knots, so when I'm NOT flying with him, I need all the help I can get to see him coming!

[onemore]

Spirax, in the twisted paranoid mind of American security consultants, the fact that a passenger might know exactly where the aircraft is, via GPS, is only a very short step from the passenger seizing control of the aircraft and directing it, via his little GPS, somewhere harmful.

Except that I'm not too sure that someone who is seizing control of an aircraft will worry tooooo much about obeying the request to turn all electronic equipment to flight mode :)

Besides when they take control they can always just use the one in the cockpit :)

[Jabawocky]

It was a mile right of track, I have told you a million times now not to exagerate! ;)

[Shagpile]

Doesn't need to affect the data; just make it so people can comment, and other people can give thumbs up/down on it. Order by thumbs count! Also include daily fuel prices etc.

WRT carrying met/notams, I believe the AIP says along the lines of performing an accurate study of met/notams for the applicable route on preflight. Can't ever remember seeing that you actually have to carry them, although good Airmanship would dictate that you can reference it airborne, especially on longer flights if you have the room.

Regulation 139 of CAR 1988 says you need to carry:
- Certificate of registration
- Certificate of Airworthiness
- Maintenance release (unless CASA says you don't need to)
- Licences/Medicals of crew (unless CASA says you don't need to)
- Flight manual (if any)
- Any licence WRT radio equipment
- List of passenger names, dep & destination.
- If Cargo, bills of loading and manifests.
- If international, the company AOC.

[NOSIGN]

That data is from AsA. You know the encode/decode-only ALAs in ERSA? We get coordinates for them too.


Baswell,

did you guys consider using the AOPA aerdrome index for airfield coordinate information? It would be useful to have these supplement ASA data.

Also, I am particularily interested in the "breadcrumb" feature but can hardly distinguish the breadcrumb colour against most of the background maps - same goes with the aeroplane symbol. Anybody else prefer to have a choice in colour & symbols?

Great APP!

[ozaggie]

Shagwell, Baspile, you are naughty boys. Now I've had to get another fecking tool to clutter up the cockpit!'

[nitpicker330]

Version 2.0.1 out now.

Good updates.

Just one question please.

Custom waypoints have both a name AND an ID. Why do you need both? What's the difference between them?
When you display the custom waypoints on your map it shows both names above and below this waypoint, cluttering the display a little.
Surely I only need to see the waypoint name and I don't need to see it's ID.

Otherwise a good update.

p.s. Could you align the TAC charts so they appear straight on the page please? The MEL TAC3 chart is cocked off to the side a bit and it's annoying!!

[Shagpile]

Yep you can leave the name or description blank if you wish...

Normally airports will have 2 descriptions: Code (e.g. YSSY) and name (e.g. Sydney).

[nitpicker330]

Ok, after a bit more playing it appears you can only leave the name blank.
The ID will default back to User.. and you can't leave it blank.


Can you straighten out the TAC3 chart?

[nitpicker330]

Hoy, Baswell or Shagpile....


Can you please straighten out the TAC 3

:ok:

[Agent86]

Nitpicker,
TAC3 TAC4 TAC5 are all skewed to North up. Have a look at the physical maps. If Se E Aus was aligned N-S you could have a straight map. Do you hold maps North up or Track up?

[nitpicker330]

With that kind of map ( IFR TAC chart ) you generally hold it North up so you can read all the data off the page ( LSALT, TRK, DIST, FREQ, CTA STEPS etc etc ) You are not relating it map to ground to visually navigate ( as with a WAC chart ) so it helps if the page is straight!!

I Haven't looked at this real paper map to know what it looks like for quite a while ( I use Jepp En Rte charts for Hi Alt mostly ) but I don't remember the page and all the writing being twisted off by 20 deg?

Yes I worked out that it was North up, but surely they could fix it so the names and all the writing were straight? The whole thing is cocked off about 20 deg and I'm sure it needn't be. Zoom out to look at the whole map, it's not straight on the page. Surely an easy fix?

If you compare it to the ERC Low for Vic, I realise the scale is different but aren't they both Lambert Conformal Conic Projections? The ERC Low Vic chart is straight on the screen so I don't see why Ozrunways can't straighten out the TAC 3 as well.

Oh well, it would be nice if they at the very least responded to my question and put to bed a reason why they cannot straighten it.:{

[Dangly Bits]

From the CASA newsletter.

New standards and guidance on the way for electronic flight bags

CASA is looking to develop new guidance material for pilots, as well as standards for air transport operators, on the use of portable electronic flight bags during flights. For air transport operators the standards will address the requirements for operational approvals for the use of portable electronic flight bags. The need for guidance material and standards is being driven by the rapid growth of purpose designed aviation software for electronic tablets, such as the Apple Ipad, that could enable these devices to be used as electronic flight bags. The issue has been identified at the global level with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) having recently reconvened an electronic flight bag working group. ICAO has recognised that current standards and recommended practices, as well as guidance material, on electronic flight bags are being made obsolete by new tablet technology. CASA is playing a key role in the ICAO working group, having recently taken part in a meeting at ICAO headquarters in Montreal. The ICAO working group is aiming to have new high-level standards and recommended practices developed for electronic flight bags by mid 2012.

A number of safety issues have already been identified in relation to the widespread use of electronic flight bags. In the first instance the pace of evolving technology makes the development of new standards and guidance material a challenge. Data connectivity between portable devices and aircraft systems must also be addressed. In addition, there is a need for software assurance and operator quality control systems to manage the integrity of safety critical navigational and performance data. While electronic flight bags have obvious value in the cockpit, human factors issues must be examined. There is a risk of information overload for pilots, which can divert attention away from the fundamental tasks of flying.

[Shagpile]

The Sydney TAC chart is naturally skewed 20 degrees or so off so they can fit more of the major airports into a square shape.

In order to display GPS position on the maps, we have to convert them to Mercator which makes the lat/long lines run vertical & horizontal. This will rotate and slightly stretch the map however you probably won't notice the warping as it is subtle but necessary for the gps points to line up correctly on the map. Sydney TAC is obviously the most rotated map.

We're doing track-up in an update soon so you should be able to get the best of both worlds.

[Shagpile]

iPad KABOOM! A Success – iPad 2 Rapid Decompression Certification Available for Download (http://www.paperlesscockpit.com/2011/07/ipad-kaboom-a-success-ipad-2-rapid-decompression-certification-available-for-download/)

iPad2 passed a community funded rapid decompression testing to 51,000ft (DO-160F testing). Testing regime was:

- Stabilised at 8000ft for 2 hours
- Rapid decompression to 51,000ft in 15 seconds
- Held at altitude for 10 minutes.
- Returned to sea level

No battery venting, shards of glass etc. iPad2 continued operating the whole time! Well done Apple I'd say...marvellous piece of engineering.

[Aussie Bob]

We're doing track-up in an update soon so you should be able to get the best of both worlds.

Awesome, this will be a big improvement and will probably make my trusty Garmin redundant

[VH-XXX]

I seriously don't know how anyone can fly with track up! North up aids situation awareness with radio calls and the like. I thought it was women that needed track up because of the way that their brains work ;)

[Shagpile]

Personally I use north-up although everybody has asked for track-up so I've gotta do it! Seems personal preference - most people probably get taught to hold (and fold) their maps track-up while they are learning to help with orientation of stuff on track.

I agree you do lose situational awareness about which way North is when doing track-up. Much easier to make radio calls etc and see that your "north-west" of some airfield.

[Aussie Bob]

I was couch flying Ozrunways last night and it seemed quite unstable, it closed down several times and sometimes the page would change for no apparent reason, always happened when I touched the screen somewhere but nowhere near a button. What gives here? Anyone else got glitches?

[compressor stall]

Must say after the recent update I got a couple of uncommanded shutdowns, and the DAPS tab browser was half an inch too far down the screen.

Then after a couple of days, all good again. Very odd.

[Jabawocky]

When using OzRunways make sure you have shut down all the other programmes. Even though they are asleep in the background some, use a lot more resources than others.

To do this, "Double Click" the button and a row of open apps will appear on the bottom of the screen. Press and hold on any one of these apps and a little red circle with a - sign appears over each app icon. ap the red dot on each one and it will be closed down. Some folk I have seen have had dozens open and it seems to slow down the high resource users like mapping apps.

Cheers :ok:

[Aussie Bob]

Live and learn Jabawocky, thanks for that!

I did it and found that every program I have was running. Now to see if there is a difference ...

[Bevan666]

When using OzRunways make sure you have shut down all the other programmes. Even though they are asleep in the background some, use a lot more resources than others.


When your iThingie gets short of memory it signals the foreground app to reduce memory usage. If it is still short of memory it then kills background apps (starting at the biggest) until there is enough free memory. If there is still not enough memory then the foreground app is also killed.

Manually killing background apps wont make a difference - they will be killed anyway, to keep the foreground app running.

You will still see these killed background apps in the task switcher though. If you press on them a killed background app will do a full restart. Its just fooling you into thinking that they are still running.

The joys of coding on a memory constrained device...

Bevan..

[compressor stall]

When's your flight planner out Bevan?

[Bevan666]

Its in the queue waiting for review by apple... Version 1.0 took 3.5 weeks to pass, and by the time it was completed (which was last Thursday) the next version was ready to ship, so 1.0 is withheld from sale and 1.1 will launch in a week.. or so (entirely dependant on apple's review process)

Thanks,

Bevan..

[baswell]

When your iThingie gets short of memory it signals the foreground app to reduce memory usage. If it is still short of memory it then kills background apps (starting at the biggest) until there is enough free memory. If there is still not enough memory then the foreground app is also killed.
Going on experience, it's a bit more complicated (buggy?) than that.

You can have the app running for hours, you put it in the background, do something else, bring it back to the foreground and it crashes in seconds.

I see many resource-hungry apps do this. Although nobody can say for certain, my gut feeling is that you bring the memory hungry one to the foreground and before it's had a chance to clear the stuff from the background, iOS panics about overall system RAM usage and exits even the foreground app.

This is why we have gone out of our way in OzRunways to make sure that if you start it back up, it picks up where you left off.

[Jabawocky]

Manually killing background apps wont make a difference - they will be killed anyway, to keep the foreground app running.

Not in my experience.

With the iphone 4 when trying to use Naips, it hangs. Kill off hibernating apps manually and the Naips responds. So I am not sure the auto kill off is 100% effective.

Seen it many times now so can you explain this? I am not the only one to see the same things.

[Scamp Damp]

I have just bought another ipad.

I am going to give my old ipad to my daughter and keep the 64Gb ipad2 for me.

Is there an easy way to transfer my ozrunway membership from my old ipad1 to my new ipad2? I really cant afford purchasing another copy of it?

[baswell]

Scampi,

Just look at what the user ID is on the old ipad and put it into the new one, then delete OzRunways from the old one.

If it gives you an error when try to move to the new iPad*, send us a support email via the website and we'll transfer it for you.

Cheers,
Bas.

* Because we don't let people do this too often for obvious reasons. But it happens someone buys a subscription on a friend/family member's iPad, then decides to buy a new iPad a few weeks later...

[Capt Claret]

Scamp, the Birthday Fairy, aka Mrs C, bought me an iPad 2 for my birthday. All I did to transfer OzRunways was restore the old (backed up) iPad data from iTunes, and then opened OzRunways and entered the relevant email I.D. in the settings. :ok:

[nitpicker330]

The same as if you'd lost or broken the old one.

Plug in the new iPad, open i Tunes and it will ask you what you'd like to do, easy.

The only pain in the ass is that the apps you had on the old iPad won't arrange themselves into those nice folders you had, so you'll need to spend quite a while arranging/setting up the folders.

[Keg]

Was able to try and interesting comparison a few days back.

Had my iPad 1 and my F/Os iPad 2 running concurrently with Ozrunways. The iPad 2 picked up and held the GPS signal quite easily on top of the dash. My iPad 1 never picked up the signal at all.

It appears the solution is self evident- I need to go and buy and iPad 2! :E :ok:

That said, if he put his iPad down by his side then the signal became a lot more squirrelly. I'm still going to go with option A and get a bluetooth GPS for it. I reckon that's going to be the best solution for the 767. At least that way I can leave the iPad beside me rather than having it up on the dash the whole time.

[Ozgrade3]

Now keg, thats a photo I would pay many coins to see, not 1 but 2 iPads on the glareshield.

Ah grasshopper, it seems Mr QF is saving money on FMS database updates and issuing iPads instead.

Now the mention of 10nm markers on your route gave me a chuckle. next you will be asking how to do a 1:60. Remember those?

Better give you the sensar number as well,

All said in jest of course.

[nitpicker330]

My i Pad 2 won't work anywhere in the 330 cockpit but the i Phone 4 works on the side window!!

Keg, which Bluetooth device are you planning to get?

[VH-XXX]

I've had recent reports of an iPad 2 intermittently working in the app and causing some issues. This was whilst it was in full 3G phone coverage, operating in a Jabiru on a dash mount. I was a little surprised to hear this.

[Capt Claret]

I've found the Bad-Elf GPS dongle to be very good. It allows the iPad to stay in Airplane mode but receive a better GPS signal than the inbuilt receiver gives. Bad Elf » GPS for iPad and iPod touch (http://bad-elf.com/)

[nitpicker330]

Bad Elf looks good but I'd be worried it won't work unless beside a window.

With a Bluetooth one I can sit it on the window ledge for a clearer sight of the Signal.

[AussieNick]

VH-XXX i lost GPS signal a couple of times during my last work trip. Was still within 3G coverage at the time. And the app crashed a few times, only when running the ERC charts though, the WACs VTCs and TAC charts were fine

[Ozeflyer]

The GNS 5870 Bluetooth GPS works well. It comes with a little suction cap device allowing it to be attached to the window. Works well on the rear side window of the 744.

Just need to be careful with the on/off switch. Sometimes likes to turn itself on if left in a bag.....

[OverFienD]

Yeah, I've had a few problems with the ERC's crashing the app as well... Starts straight back up to where it was, but is a bit of a pain. Doesn't seem to happen with the other charts.

[baswell]

Guys, thanks for the feedback! Interesting to hear it crashes more with ERCs; no idea what that should be. We'll look at that.

We're working on the GPS too. It seems that in our efforts to not have it display bad data, we've made it too sensitive, especially with vertical accuracy. So in the next version, there will be a different warning and we won't cut out your position just because the GPS's altitude accuracy is too far off.

Thanks again for the feedback and your support!

Bas.

[fatmike]

Can anyone provide advice on how to plan from A to B via multi leg track changes.

[Grogmonster]

Baswell,

Any chance of Barometric correction to the GPS altitude? I know that is cheeky but when in the flight levels it would be just too cool to be able to hit STD for 1013mb.

Groggy

[Keg]

Keg, which Bluetooth device are you planning to get?


Nitpicker. I went with the GNS5870. It arrived a couple of days ago. I'm flying tomorrow and will try it out. Glad to hear that Ozeflyer's experience is positive with the 5870. Hoping for the same.

The next thing I'll be looking for is a contraption to hold the iPad in a nice place on the side window so that it's within easy viewing but still out of the way.

[compressor stall]

And can we please have a feature where it will work with user maps that are uploaded. .map would be the most logical, although it's a pain running windoze just for this!

Very useful for the survey pilots, and I am pretty sure most gov't fire departments have georeferenced topographic maps for fire work. Great for chopper guys.

[beechie]

keg,

check out Apple iPad Holders & Mounts (http://www.ram-mount.com/NewProducts/AppleiPadMounts/tabid/2614/Default.aspx)

got yoke mount, cessna seat rail mount, windscreen mount, kneeboard mount

[Keg]

Beechie. Thanks heaps for that.

I think this one may suit the best for airline ops.

http://www.ram-mount.com/Portals/0/Skins/NationalProducts/images/ramb166ap8iu1.jpg

[rjtjrt]

Keg
I must say I prefer the plastic socket arms (rap-b-201) - various lengths - short one in picture below), with a twist suction cup (RAP-B-224-2U) to the heavy aluminium RAM Mounts for stuff like iPAD that are quite light themselves.
John
http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/2/rapb224-2.jpg
http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/0/rapb201a.jpg

[compressor stall]

RAM mounts work very well in Airbus

[nitpicker330]

Keg......thanks, please let us know how it works out. :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Keg.

camzilla.com.au

[baswell]

And can we please have a feature where it will work with user maps that are uploaded. .map would be the most logical, although it's a pain running windoze just for this!
Which ".map" file do you mean, there are so many! Which software do you use it with now? It is certainly something which we can look into and will be happy to work with any organisation to meet their specific needs. Just get in touch!

Any chance of Barometric correction to the GPS altitude? I know that is cheeky but when in the flight levels it would be just too cool to be able to hit STD for 1013mb.
Think about it: that would only work if we knew the ACTUAL QNH for where you are so we can calculate the difference between 1013. :)

[baswell]

Also saw some interesting DIY projects recently, created using a Knee dock attached to some other fabricated parts and bolted on to experimental aircraft.

I guess riveting new parts to the boss's Airbus is usually frowned upon, though... ;-)

[beno777]

Hey Baswell, love the app. How much longer till the flight planning is ready?

[Aussie Bob]

Benno, search for AvPlan in the App Store, ready and waiting for you ...

[beno777]

Yeah, had a play and still not 100% sure of it and had already subscribed to ozrunways, so don't want to fork out more moola until I see what the guys can offer.

[Keg]

GNS5870 worked brilliantly. It did take about four minutes to get a signal first time out when I connected it at top of climb. Also had to re-pair it as well but after that it was perfect. Located it as someone mentioned earlier, low down on the number 3 window.

Sadly the prevailing weather combined with night flying didn't allow much active use of it in terms of sight seeing but I was thrilled with how it went.

Have worked out that the iPad will clip onto the pad (writing) holder on the side wall if it's a strong enough clip so no need yet to go with a different solution....yet.

Looking forward to the multiple leg nav function coming.

[nomorecatering]

How would the suction cup and long arm on teh iPad holder work in turbulence, wouldnt it flap around a bit and ultimately fall off?

[Aussie Bob]

Beno: AvPlan is what the guys offer, flight planning software from the good folk at Ozrunways. Sit and play with it non stop, and waste a few evenings, once you get the hang of it it is very good.

Nomorecatering: I have the suction cap RAM mount and as far as I can see, it ain't ever coming off even if I did high G aerobatics. It is one serious sucker pad (lever operated), and the arm is also super rigid. Mine blocks a wee bit of forward view but it is also a piece of cake to loosen it and flop the Ipad onto the panel for take off and landing.

[Lancair70]

Err, I thought Avplan was from the oppostion to Ozrunways ? ? When I trialled Avplan it was buggy and crashed a few times. Didnt open it again after getting Ozrunways and now can't open it it to play more as the demo period expired. ? Not paying for it to try again, Ill wait until Ozrunways get their planning sorted out.

[Keg]

How would the suction cup and long arm on teh iPad holder work in turbulence, wouldnt it flap around a bit and ultimately fall off?

If it can cope with Australian roads, then it's going to cope with turbulence without any dramas.

[VH-XXX]

The RAM mount is by far superior to all others including the $8 iPad mount I got from Deal Extreme that fell off and broke when I hit 8,500 ft the first time. Same reason why Go-Pros sometimes fall off.

[Aussie Bob]

Err, I thought AvPlan was from the opposition to Ozrunways

Errr, it appears you are correct and I have a bit of egg on my face. Apologies to all concerned for my mistake and sorry Bemo for the bum steer! :\

[Paul O'Rourke]

Is there anyway the IPad could pick up on transponder signals within the general area and plot on a screen map without the addition of plug-ins? What are the difficulties with this concept?

[KRviator]

No chance at all of that happening. The IPads 3G and Wifi frequencies are worlds apart from that used by SSR and ADS-B transponders. As is it's GPS receiver.

[Homesick-Angel]

Been playing around with avplan. Is an excellent program but does crash a bit compared to the stability of. Saying that, if they can sort it the bugs, it will be a strong competitor to ORways .

[VH-XXX]

Is there anyway the IPad could pick up on transponder signals within the general area and plot on a screen map without the addition of plug-ins? What are the difficulties with this concept?

It is a definite possibility for this app and I suspect it's on the horizon for it; would just need an external unit as the receiver, much the same as the blue-tooth GPS receivers that some are using. I'd be expecting it for ADSB versus the current transponders. The sky is the limit with the iPad, it's just a matter of what companies are choosing to charge for the associated hardware to go with it. I understand that the OzRunways guys are about value so if they do build one, it will be likely be affordable for the average Joe.

[Sunfish]

Any idea when the route planning feature might be available?

[havick]

shagpile, any chance of having the option to purchase CAO ammendments via Ozrunways in the future? It would be nice to have everything in one nice little package.

[Shagpile]

Any idea when the route planning feature might be available?
We've sent out the beta testing copy to a bunch of people & are fixing all the bugs. Hard to give a firm ETA (as I'll only break my promise!) but I'd imagine a few weeks till it's on the App Store.

[QFF]

Has anyone had problems with restoring Ozrunways after upgrading to iOS5?

I am afraid to upgrade after hearing horror stories of people losing their apps/data etc despite backing up to itunes.

[Capt Claret]

QFF,

I upgraded to iOS 5 yesterday and just checked OzRunways in the CNS terminal. It seems to work, though shows me at an elevation of some 1100'!:8

[nitpicker330]

Warning to all updating to iOS5

After you open OzRunways you will need to download everything again,
DAPS, ERSA, CHARTS etc for use offline in the air.

[Jabawocky]

I found myself 8535NM to the NW of Brisbane........Retard Vehicle has good range but not that good!

Talk about off the map! :eek:

It seemed Ok after that though!

Ohhh dear.........just looked...have to reload all the maps again.

Sorry Rowan, better keep that server cool. :uhoh:

[Keg]

Are you guys sure about the maps? I've updated the iPad to IOS 5 but the maps are still good?!?!? Used them for study yesterday and been looking at them again today.

I just had another look. In the settings they're marked as 'download' but if I select them via maps they're still there. The AIP is gone and so that will need to be downloaded again, but DAPS are still there as is the ERSA entry even though the settings say that too needs to be downloaded.

Very weird!

Ah, now I think I get it. I have a data connection so as I go to look at something, it downloads it. Perhaps I'd better reload everything just to make sure.

[baswell]

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. All maps are stored in the "Caches" directory which doesn't get backed up. So far, with major OS upgrades, Apple does a backup/update/restore. So maps and ERSA/DAP/AIP gone. :(

The good news is: this should be the last time as updates from iOS 5 should now be incremental, without requiring iTunes.

There is one complicating factor: there is no file-system location right now that is both not backed up but also guaranteed to not be emptied out. Technically, when disk space is getting low, iOS could start emptying application specific cache directories.

At the same time, stuff like our maps are not allowed to be store in "Documents" anymore because of long back up times to the new iCloud service. They check and will reject apps for it.

Rock, hard place.

We (and many other app makers) are going to petition Apple to create a new directory, call it "PermaCaches" - not backed up, not removed by the OS either.

In the mean time, always keep a GB or so free on your iDevice to make sure iOS cache cleaner doesn't clobber the biggest "offender".

Bas.

[Jabawocky]

I can see this being a stumbling block for CASA to allow these to be used as paperless cockpits.

Unless you can guarantee your data is not lost..... they would be right in being concerned.

with a 64Gig unit I might just be safe ;)

[nitpicker330]

Baswell........I've downloaded all the data again but just one question please?

The AIP index tab ( top left ) shows all the AIP pages BUT when you tap on one it won't take you to that page???

ie trying to see section 3.4 Communication services I tap on the screen but nothing?

Am I doing something wrong?

Tks.

[Jabawocky]

Not OzRunways related but the bugs are an issue with the MUSIC or ipod function, won't play, then when you get it to play by randomly poking things it will play anything else but what you poke. Seems this is the fix



Connect your iPhone to your computer and open iTunes.
Uncheck "Sync Music" and click "Sync". This will remove all the music from your iPhone.
Check "Sync Music" and click "Sync". This will put the music back into your iPhone.

As for the AIP....yep its broken too, even search and select. Is this Steve protesting to the world? Last hoorah and all. Come back to haunt us:sad:.

The OTHER data seems to link OK though.

Just like Microsoft it seems :{

[Agent86]

NitPicker ..
The AIP index tab ( top left ) shows all the AIP pages BUT when you tap on one it won't take you to that page???

ie trying to see section 3.4 Communication services I tap on the screen but nothing?

Am I doing something wrong?


Same with me ...Also the Search function does not allow selection of any of the items.

Any solutions?

[Shagpile]

when you tap on one it won't take you to that page

Yes it seems iOS5 web browser is different & does not scroll any more.

In iOS4.x it loads up PDF's as if they are a web page, so you could internally scroll them quite easily. Now it seems to load up PDF's as some kind of document that you can't use javascript on.

We've fixed this problem in the current beta that we are testing. Hopefully we can release it very shortly.

[nitpicker330]

Thanks mate :ok:

[belly tank]

Has anyone else noticed speed dropped in IPad IPhone since OS5 download?
Both mine seem very slow in loading all apps:ugh:

[nitpicker330]

Yes, my i Phone 4 has been slow a few times. I've downloaded all the App updates it asks for but its possible not all Apps have been tweaked for iOs5 yet.

[baswell]

Has anyone else noticed speed dropped in IPad IPhone since OS5 download?
Did you re-download the maps? As mentioned above, you need to. If you don't, we get the tiles live from teh Interwebs, which will be slow.

[Jabawocky]

Any thoughts on the AIP and serach problems?

[belly tank]

Baswell,

Today i downloaded all the maps and erc again and it works like a treat

thanks mate:ok:

[Shagpile]

Any thoughts on the AIP and serach problems?

Yep a fix is on the way.

[Jabawocky]

So you have to work ya butts off to fix a change made by apple :ouch:

Thats life I guess....Bugger!:sad:

How long do you think? Is that one pice of string or two? Not that I am in any hurry but some folk might be.

[baswell]

Jaba, you should have gotten an email about the new beta. That should fix it for you. The quicker you test it, the quicker the rest of the good folk here will get it. :)

[Jabawocky]

Nope.... no email yet!:sad:

[Jabawocky]

Nope, still nothing... :sad:

[185skywagon]

Got mine (beta email)but not game due map loss problems. Is that sorted bas?