iPad Navigation

[jad79]

Hi peeps,

Looking to upgrade the ol GPSMAP196 for something a little newer, coal as a power source is getting hard to get!

Am looking into the iPad option, would be handy having everything in one unit! Does anyone use the iPad for navigation and general flying duties ??

I'm particulary interested in the navigation software.. I see OzRunways are now incorporating mapping in their app package.

Does the iPad have stand alone GPS or, does it require mobile phone reception to find a position?

Any other comments would be appreciated!

Safe Flying

[lk978]

I would recommend an Ipad to anyone who is starting to do multi IFR charter... It is great for weather, documents and charts and booking last minute accommodation without making the cockpit look like a scene out of the movie "the hangover" I fly with one and a set of paper jepps neatly tucked away just in case. 1 inch folder with the charts in it. From someone that used to have terrible cockpit organisation I now run a ship like it was an operating theatre. I don't even take a laptop on some trips now.

Following aviation apps installed

-Jeppesen TC
-Naips
-Oz runways
-Dialawiz
-Pilot E6B
-CoPilot (not really used much except looking at sector lengths ect on the run)
-BOM radar
-Pilot Time

I Have found the GPS pretty good but the issue will be the amount of data required to be installed on the machine as you wont be able to download them on the run well at least not everywhere

[VH-XXX]

What he said.....

and the iPad 3G has built in GPS, the wifi only version doesn't. If you had the wifi version there are external GPS options available. You do not need mobile reception for the GPS to function.

[Dangly Bits]

Hey IK798,

Does the JeppTC have maps? I carry mine and download the Airservices Approach plates.

Love my iPad.

DB

[jad79]

Thanks for the reply guys, appreciated!

Well I was looking at the Wifi only version, assuming I can just teether it to my iPhone 4.

How does the stand alone GPS work? Will it get GPS info from the iPhone or am I best just to go for the 3G version and get another data plan ?

Also, Jepp TC.. can't find that one in the iTunes store?

cheers

[VH-XXX]

Spend the extra ~$100 and get the 3G version. No stuffing about trying to tether your iPhone and you won't have the battery draining from tethering. You don't have to buy a data plan but it's there if you need it. The money is well spent to get the GPS. :ok:

I'm not even sure if you can use you iPhone for GPS when tethering....?

I use the iPad at home on WIFI and on GPS when flying, but away at flying trips and holidays where I don't want to take the laptop, I top up my 3G monthly pre-paid plan. Works well for me.

PS FYI: teEthering is something that you used to do on your mother...

[lk978]

No maps on the Jeppesen TC... but a far nicer product to use than the airservices charts, I will qualify that by saying there is nothing wrong with the airservices charts I am just used to Jepps and would give my personal advise to convert sooner rather than later.

I still like the paper maps in the cockpit though but I am doing relatively long sectors so I need something to block the sun out :ok:

[QFF]

Airnav Pro - has digitized VTCs & WACs making it a complete moving map solution for the 3G/GPS equipped ipad.

(I have no affiliation to the company apart from being a satisfied user...)

[Sunfish]

Ozrunways 2 is out and it has everything ersa all maps daps AIP etc for $75 per year private use.

The maps automatically tell you when they are out of date. You then just need to find a good wifi connection to upgrade them which takes about Fifteen to twenty minutes.

It is awesome!

[compressor stall]

Yep, I upgraded last night. It's great! Nice layout. My only complaint is not being able to bilk download the maps at once. No really a huge issue tho.

[Grogmonster]

JAD79,

Just to be clear you need the 3G version of the Ipad but you DO NOT need another data plan as your Ipad will use the Personal Hotspot from your Iphone when required. In flight you do not need the Hotspot facility or 3G for the GPS to work. I tried mine recently at FL270 and the Ground speed readout was identical to the FMS. Note that the altitude readout is true altitude so there is a large difference to standard FL altitude at 1013.2 MB. This however is a good feature when close to the ground in my opinion.

Groggy

[Old Akro]

Apple don't disclose any specs on the GPS in the IPad. On some of the computer tech forums there is a lot of discussion about them using mobile phone tower triangulation rather than full GPS. There is also an issue about potential antennae screening from the cockpit. My Garmin 495 gets dodgy reception if its on the seat beside me rather than the glareshield. The iPad (I believe) will take a gps signal from a bluetooth gps engine. You might consider this.

One of the reasons I bought the 495 was for the synthetic instrument panel. I've just had my third vac pump failure. Only one was in IMC (just exiting cloud), but I like the idea of the backup.

[Shagpile]

My only complaint is not being able to bilk download the maps at once

Yeah you can - it's in the Settings page -> Downloads.

[compressor stall]

Thanks shagpile, but I can't download more than 4 simultaneously?

What I was meaning was a "download all" button.

Nice app btw. Well done. :ok:

[baswell]

In some version soon we'll have a download scheduler; you select which ones you want and it will downloads them 4 at a time automatically. Once the next cycle is out, it's just one button to get all the same ones you had last time.

We're working on it!

[baswell]

Apple don't disclose any specs on the GPS in the IPad. On some of the computer tech forums there is a lot of discussion about them using mobile phone tower triangulation rather than full GPS.
It is called "assisted GPS" Assisted GPS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS)

In my experience (on the ground in a 3G blackspot), the iPhone and iPad can lock on the satellites on their own, it just takes longer.

That said: so far I have not been without NextG while flying, ever. But if I were to go into the centre or from here to Perth, I wouldn't rely on it working on its own.

I'd invest in a bluetooth "real" GPS designed for the iPad.

[morno]

G'day Baswell,
Must say, brilliant update to OzRunways. The maps feature is worth its weight in gold. No more pulling out the WAC's and plotting your position on them just to find out "what's that strip down there?".

One question. In a future update, would it be possible to enable hiding of the menu's down the bottom? Or even full screen? I use it on an iPhone 4 (can't justify an iPad) and with the menu's there and the GPS display, it leaves little room for the map itself, :bored:.

Otherwise great work.

morno

[Jabawocky]

morno

I use it on an iPhone 4 (can't justify an iPad)

Until morno flies the Retard Vehicle next time and he sees the ipad... :}

[morno]

morno can't fly Jabba's RV until Jabba comes for a fly up here, :E.

That said, might possibly be down that way around early July. I reckon I could drag myself to YCAB if there's an RV going anywhere.

The more I'm reading about these iPad's and OzRunway's, the more I want one! But I think the Manager of Finances (better half) might have something to say about that, :(.

morno

[Jabawocky]

if mornon can make YLRE on the 25/6........ :ok:

Besides tell Mrs mornon it will help her navigation in the mighty Nissan :ok: sure to get approval then :}

[itsbrokenagain]

Some info for buyers, you need a 3g ipad to get the builtin GPS. I have both a ipad 1 and 2, and use it in a Learjet 45 at all altitudes up to FL470 behind a heated glass windshield and the gps locks on within a minutes and tracks perfectly, even with it sitting down on my leg . Its also being moved throughout the world and works great no matter if we are in the middle east or up in Japan. I wouldnt do the bluetooth gps, its just too much hassle... unless of course your plane has problems with the ipad getting access to the signals from the gps satellites.

A great mapping APP thats free is PD Maps.

It lets you download the google or many other map source maps before you fly via the wifi or 3g and stores them on the ipad and tracks you position using the stored maps enroute, very cool for pax or yourself .

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Morno,

Surely she has a double portfolio as does my Minister for War and Finance, the Right Honourable Mrs Bravo.

FRQ CB

[morno]

Of course FrqCB, I was just listing one of them.

She's also the Minister for Housing Decisions, Minister for Kitchen's, Minister for "Mr Morno's leave passes", :E. Ohh and just don't let her see this, or she'll also be the Minister for War as well, :uhoh:.

To keep things on topic, maybe I might have to approach her about an iPad....

morno

[bob johns]

I have got to ask ,what ever happened to DR and mk1 .eyeball?

[Jabawocky]

MK I eyeball is farkall good to you when in imc and you might like to know what is around you, even if for comfort value in a turbine twin.

Hey morno, this new gadget is awesome dude:ok:

[Polonski]

I have and it works great! I'm flying around central WA well away from any phone signal and so far no probs on my iPhone. In fact it's so good that I've just ordered my iPad so I can file away a couple of trees permanently to the flight bag! :}

[MilFlyer]

Interesting! I've been looking at this myself lately.

I just wonder how you use it in the cockpit. I'm not about to hold it by hand on a Nav. I suppose you could put it on a seat next to you?? :}

I'm just thinking that if I spend $1000 on an iPad and $100 on some nav software for it, I'd like something pretty sturdy to look after it. I saw some kind of leg band with some kind of fixing device / clip, but I'm worried it will get broken. I mean seriously, I don't want some elastic with a clip to hold it. Without mentioning it by name, it looks like an elastic band with some kind of plastic claw thing to hold the iPad.

The other thing is that I already have a kneepad that I use for writing clearances etc. There are a few iPad apps that would allow for quick typing, but I'm not sure tower would appreciate me asking them to say again because I've been typing.

How useful is it really given that I'm worried about 'clipping' my iPad onto my knee (and it getting bumped as I do my thing in flight) and already wear a kneepad for writing? Seems to me that I'll just be looking down the barrel of a broken iPad. :(

I looked at mounting it, but (correct me if I'm wrong) the regs then class it as an 'electronic flight bag' that requires expensive fitting and certification).

What am I missing here? I love the idea of my iPad on my knee in flight, but what is the go with the cheap 'elastic and a claw' stuff to hold it. Does Apple have something?

[Sunfish]

MilFlyer:

What am I missing here? I love the idea of my iPad on my knee in flight, but what is the go with the cheap 'elastic and a claw' stuff to hold it. Does Apple have something?

No, but Sunfish will produce you one of his custom ones.

We start with virgin Oakley unobtainium resin to make specially profiled clips for the Ipad 2 these are computer finite element designed and produced in the latest high pressure injection molding machines fitted with 60 Rockwell hardness diamond polished dies that are accurate to within Two millionths of a millimeter.

The axles of these clips are hardened and ground Titanium Ti 5Al 2Sn alloy and the resulting clip has been demonstrated to lift the equivalent of a Kenworth truck.

We use a Kevlar - carbon fibre composite webbing originally designed for the space shuttle and containing a small proprietary elastic element that we have patented which is specifically designed to ensure that your leg diastolic blood pressure is reduced by less than 1mmHg by strap tension at 4g.

This can be your for only $4000.00 each.

Translation: Try the clip that Ozrunways is selling for $35, otherwise carry a passenger and give her the iPad to hold.

[morno]

How's the iPad going Jabba?

[splitty]

Yeah Sunfish I love this one ..!! R U a Politician?

[MilFlyer]

All good mate. Found a good kneepad (ipro aviator) that actually encloses the iPad in :O

(and it doesn't cost $4k either :E ) Time to convince the wife to let me buy an iPad now :p

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I just wonder how you use it in the cockpit. I'm not about to hold it by hand on a Nav.

You a ForkMount Mk 7 (patent pending) for iFad!

But it won't happened unless I go over to the dark side.

Dr :8

[Polonski]

I just found this kneeboard available in the states called AvPad. Seems like the type of thing I'd use. But I've just ordered the Belkin Access Folio and I'll attach a strap and stuff for paper myself. I'll post pikkies when I'm done with it!:ok:

[baswell]

I saw some kind of leg band with some kind of fixing device / clip, but I'm worried it will get broken. I mean seriously, I don't want some elastic with a clip to hold it. Without mentioning it by name, it looks like an elastic band with some kind of plastic claw thing to hold the iPad.
Assuming you are talking about our Knee Dock here! We're all about openness here, so feel free to mention it! ;-)

The iPad itself actually gives a lot of rigidity to the design of the Knee Dock. The iPad certainly doesn't need pampering; it's an extreme solid device (unlike some plastic competitors) and so long as you don't drop it on concrete, you won't break it. The main thing to watch out for is scratching the
glass, but even that is pretty hard to do; it's hardened.

The strap is not elastic. We specifically chose this instead of the "standard" elastic+velcro because a) velcro sticks onto clothing and seat covers too and b) none of the elastic and velcro ones you can put on with one hand Knee Dock, you can!

I rest the dock on my leg, lift leg, pull strap through, hook the clip and tighten. Undoing it is just as simple.

Additionally, because the dock only touches your leg in two places, air can flow underneath, keeping your leg and the pad cool.

Last time Shagpile and I went upside down (positive G only!) in the RV, it just sat there on my knee, no worries.

I have been using a prototype (and now production model) for month and find it very reliable and comfortable.

Of course it is not for everyone; indeed, some people may want the fold-over clip board for paper, etc. But if you don't need that, I think our design is great: light, cool, reliable, not hugely expensive.

[PLovett]

But it won't happened unless I go over to the dark side.

Forkie...........Forkie, in your profession you have spent so long being up to your armpits at the dark side that it has distorted your view. Just go with the flow and admit that Apple now makes a product that puts Microsoft in the dark ages........it will be so much easier for you then. :ok:

Now, on thread, I know the FAA has approved the iPad but has our embattled regulator come to a similar position?

[MilFlyer]

Of course it is not for everyone; indeed, some people may want the fold-over clip board for paper, etcYeah the "iPro Aviator" has a fold over clipboard for writing clearances on etc . There is a more expensive version that is made of Aluminium too. Perhaps if I flew more I'd look at that one..

Now, on thread, I know the FAA has approved the iPad but has our embattled regulator come to a similar position? I don't think it needs regulatory approval if it's strapped to your knee, and turned off during take-off and landing. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong though :p

[Shagpile]

Got this from a guy today who emailed CASA. This is CASA's reply:

CASA EFB Response pdf (http://ozrunways.com/email_images/CASA_EFB_RESPONSE.PDF)

[Old Akro]

That's a definite maybe if ever I saw one

[AussieNick]

I may be having a dumb moment, but when reading Part 139 I do not see any mention of the relevant charts that must be carried. Eg no mention that you must carry WAC, VTc, ERC, ERSA etc. Do CASA have it written anywhere that states these must be carried?

I Know we have always been told that you must carry paper copies of the relevant navigation material but where is it in black and white?

EDIT:

Found the answer to my own question in AIP Gen 0.1
9. RELEVANT DOCUMENTS AND CHARTS
9.1 To ensure compliance with CAR 233.(1)(h), a pilot in command
must have access during flight to appropriate documents and
charts selected from the following:
a. VFR: ERC, WAC, VNC, VTC and ERSA for the route being
flown.
b. IFR: ERC, IAL charts and ERSA for the route being flown,
and also for the departure, destination and alternate airfields to
be used. In addition, where visual navigation is required, the
pilot in command must have access to appropriate WAC, VNC
or VTC.


But again, as I look at it, Gen 0.1 only stipulates that I have access to thse charts during flight, not weather they are electronic or paper charts. Therefore ther should be no legal reason why OzRunways EFB cannot be used?

This is only my interpretation. Until I hear a definate answer on this i'll still elect to carry paper charts, but it looks like, with how fast this new technology is developing, that CASA are fast falling behind the 8 ball

[baswell]

Nick, that's my idea also. It states elsewhere: "as published by AsA or other authorised provider". Because we just show their content, are our still "published by AsA", or are we now the publisher and not an authorised source?

Huge grey area indeed. Let's hope CASA clears it up soon by adopting the FAA rules, which explicitly state it's OK.

[MilFlyer]

I'd suggest that carrying a digital copy of an ASA chart is fine. Whether or not some provider has breached ASA Copyright is a matter for them.

AvSoft (not sure if I can name them, I'm sure mods will snip if I can't?) seem to have a nice iPad product with ASA charts. Combined with a good quality kneepad I think it's a candidate for a great EFB.

[Dangly Bits]

All,
I spoke with the FuturevDevelopment guys in CASA through my Aviation Safety Advisor. Here's the go.

It is only an EFB if it becomes pad of the aircraft systems. Eg: data logging, engine trend monitoring, or the info from the device goes into the nav or com system.

An iPad's GPS can't be used as a single source of navigation as it isn't TSO'd, but you can use bothe the maps and the charts (DAPS/ERSA) no problem. Nothing is in the regs that says it has to be paper! Same with the weather! I do save the wx through the NAIPS app to prove that I have.

The OzRunway app won't show m out of date maps, so that MUST be a good thing.

The Future Tech guys at CASA are hoping to get out a CAAP on the EFB's based on the FAA's AC 91/78 (Google it) as soon as they can. Some tips from it will be:
Use a cig lighter plug for power to back up battery.
Carry printed copies of approach plates if carrying fare paying pax. (should be in ops manual anyway)
Don't leave it on the dashboard. Too hot and may fry it.
For gawd sake, don't keep your head down looking at the plurry thing! Eyes out of the cockpit!

So for me.... Good-Bye expensive AsA subscription renewals and amendments. Shagpile, my money is coming your way!

DB.

[MilFlyer]

Ahh.. that rings a bell.. You can use it, but you aren't allowed to use it as a 'Primary source of navigation'..

This reminds me of a debate where they didn't want cross hairs showing aircraft position because pilot's may use it as a primary source of nav. Of course I pointed out that you could just place a cross-hair on the glass of an EFB with a china-graph / pen when you have the map set to display aircraft position in the centre

I'm a convert now. iPro Aviatior kneepad (https://www.flightplanning.com.au/home.php?cat=250) + iPad (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad) + Moving Map / Planning Software (http://www.avsoft.com.au/) = EFB. :ok:

I wonder what the certification requirements would be for iPad and/or software. Would it be correct that iPad's GPS would need certification, then software using it would be fine?

[Dangly Bits]

Weight and Balance is a whole different ballgame! If you want to use that function, it needs to be in the flight manual as an approved means by the W&B dude who weighs planes! Or so I was told years ago when I first bought a flight planner.

Happy to be proved wrong now though.

DB

[Aussie Bob]

Greetings good people, I am new here ...
I was shown an IPad with Ozrunways on it and was hooked enough to go home and order one and get the app. Fantastic, but can anyone tell me what the button on the lower left that makes a blue ring around the aeroplane is for (apart from making a blue ring around the aeroplane)?

Yet to use inflight but perhaps tomorrow ...

You folk who have designed this app have my admiration!

[blueloo]

The ipad knee board - the pics on their website are a bit small and don't show all angles..... says 1 board fits both ipad 1 and 2....presumably that means on the ipad 2 there is a bit of space behind it.....?

You can't tell from the pics... is the knee strap removable. For example if you had no intention of ever strapping it to your knee.

[djpil]

Weight and Balance is a whole different ballgame!What you say is true however there is a reg which says to follow the AFM hence the loading system in there. Some aeroplanes have a loading system approved by a Weight Control Officer which is different from the AFM - and that loading system is not part of the approved AFM.
Regardless, no law mandating how you do the arithmetic - whether you use a spreadsheet or mental arithmetic or an EFB then its OK - you take responsibility for the arithmetic.

[VH-XXX]

Bob, pressing the blue dot centres your position on the map and the app will start tracking you. Make sure it's ways lit up for best results.

[MilFlyer]

Hi BlueLoo,

I've never owned an iPad 1 before so I asked

I got a reply.

1. The strap is removable
2. Response on iPad 1 vs iPad2 :

a conversion kit that is included with all kneeboards.

This consists of some strips of self-adhesive foam that are added to the existing foam inside the tray section of the kneeboard. Using the conversion kit, the iPad 2 fits as perfectly snuggly.

[MilFlyer]

Weight and Balance is a whole different ballgame!

For most light aircraft W&B isn't particularly difficult...

That said though, didn't Jetstar get approval to use an Excel spreadsheet?

[blueloo]

Thanks Milflyer.


a conversion kit that is included with all kneeboards.

This consists of some strips of self-adhesive foam that are added to the existing foam inside the tray section of the kneeboard. Using the conversion kit, the iPad 2 fits as perfectly snuggly.

So.....would you say it was designed for the ipad v1... and carries the (slight) bulkiness of the ipad 1 form factor, as opposed to a slender fitting specifically fitting ipad 2 case/kneeboard...

[MilFlyer]

I received mine on Tuesday [wife correction :O ] . The padding for the iPad2 is an extra millimeter or two thick. I don't think you'd notice the difference externally. Especially once it's sitting on my knee. I guess my best comparison is that it's like an extra 'bandaid' sized strip in there. My iPad certainly doesn't move though and is very well protected.

Design wise I'd say that it's designed for both and has extra padding for the iPad 2 which I'd actually prefer!

The protection is important to me as I don't want to have to explain to my wife why I broke my new $1k tech toy :8 . Also looking forward to giving the OzRunways app a go and stressing a little less over Nav on the weekend.

I've been spoilt at work with million dollar nav systems that show me a pretty map resulting in more coffee time - what's funny is that I can now get it in a Mooney at the price of a half hour :E

You use OzRunways BlueLoo? You tried the Av Plan software <is that fully released? I found that a little confusing> It overlays the current weather radar over your map / route!

Mind you, if you insist on reducing the width by a millimeter or so their is an Aluminium model that looks to be specifically designed for iPad 2.

Almost forgot to ask.. what App do you use for ERSA etc etc. (ASA pubs) ?

[blueloo]

thanks for the info Milflyer,
i have ozrunways (on iphone), but need a bluetooth GPS.

I bought the EFB app for ERSA. A bit expensive tho. I think ozrunways is probably the go. Haven't tried Avplan, waiting for some reviews first.

[Hold_Short]

Anyone know when the iPad 3 is due out and what the listed prices are going to be?

I'm new to these 'Digital Age' technology and are interested in having all my charts, jepps and flight manuals all in one.

Also, I understand there has been debate about the legalities of the iPad and its use is Australian flight decks, has there been movement within CASA?

I need something to fall back on when/if I get I get ramped!

HS

[baswell]

The rumour is early March. Expect the pricing to be the same as the current model; that's how Apple rolls. Now would be a bad time to buy an iPad 2, as the rumours are very strong indeed.

Movements within CASA: for sure, but nothing official out yet.

[rjtjrt]

HS
Supposedly, iPad3 release date March 7, 2012. This is said to be a fairly reliable date.
Price _ i have no idea.
John

[Aimpoint]

Anyone else find MilFlyer's 'innocent' AvPlan questions above sickening, particularly now we all know about his involvement in the product? Turned me off buying his app.

[Hold_Short]

Thanks very much for your help. I'll wait till then and see how it goes. Appreciate it.

[jts01]

Almost forgot to ask.. what App do you use for ERSA etc etc. (ASA pubs) ?

Ozrunways has the ERSA built in - you just tap any map and a list of ERSA entries nearby will pop up, or you can navigate through just like the paper copy - It's great.

[sprocket check]

Anyone else find MilFlyer's 'innocent' AvPlan questions above sickening, particularly now we all know about his involvement in the product? Turned me off buying his app.

Buy both, then at least you'll be supporting Aus developers, at the price both these apps are, it's a bargain.

And that way if one release has a bug and crashes on you or misbehaves, you have another option.

sc

[Aimpoint]

I'd rather save my money. If Jepp FD and Ozrunways both fail (or the iPad) I still have back up hard copies for my departure, destination and alternates. I don't need to spend more money on another product that doesn't add any extra value. It's not my job to support developers - its their job to provide a good product and service that makes me want to purchase their app.

[50.40.30.20.10]

Im looking at buying the new iPad... I intend to install Ozrunways for navigation. Am I better off purchasing the 4G ($679 for 16 GB) or the Wifi-only ($499 for 16GB) and a bluetooth GPS? I figure having the bluetooth GPS might enable me to place the receiver on the dash to obtain stronger reception.

As for size, will 16GB be sufficient to store iOS, ozrunways, company manuals etc and a lil bit of music, or should i get the 32GB?

[captwawa]

16 gb will be enough, i have an IPAD 1 with WIFI only and a GPS dongle it works ok, however ive seen an IPAD 2 "3G" work with OZ runways at 38000' with out any probs. I think the GPS in the IPADS is ok now days,
Not sure tho,,

[Shagpile]

Yeah get the 3G/4G version. The GPS is fine in the iPad & doesn't need a 3G connection to work (although it helps get a faster fix).

Plus you get the added advantage of a data connection. Get the Telstra prepaid 12gb for 12 months ($150).

[baswell]

Also: having had "the new iPad" for a while now, it definitely has a better GPS than the 1 and 2. It gets a lock faster in the middle of nowhere with cellular data disabled; say, in the back of a 737 over the bight about 30 seconds after you put it next to the window. And when you come back to it after putting OzRunways in the background, it comes back straight away with the true ground speed, rather than it slowly increasing from 0 like the 1 and 2 do.

[Jerr]

I love my IPad.

This leg I was in the copilots seat.

Even though I was not flying I still do CLEAROFF checks.

I noticed that the compass and the HSI were no longer aligned!

The cause I had rested my IPAD on the dashboard - sunvisor shelf above the compass.

BEWARE

I show a video where I place my IPad on the dashboard and then remove it.

compass - YouTube (http://youtu.be/mefAxx9ffdI)

compass - YouTube (http://youtu.be/mefAxx9ffdI)

[Shagpile]

It's not just the mag cover either...the whole spine of the iPad is magnetised. It swings a swirly compass through 90 degrees if you put it a few cm away.