Brize Norton Repatriation Route

[LFFC]

RAF Brize Norton repatriations route is confirmed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-13695055) - 8 Jun 11

I have to say that I'm really sad and angry at the proposed route! :*

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53303000/jpg/_53303288_repat_080611_eva_1830ox_map.jpg

[vernon99]

Leaving by a back entrance/crash gate is not exactly the proper way to do things, if they do not want to show any respect then come out and say so, the politicians who sat down and approved this should be ashamed of themselves. More importantly they should be named and shamed, see how long they last in office...... Discracefull behaviour the people of Carterton should start complaining to their MP about it.

[Biggus]

....sorry, who is the MP for Carterton?

[LFFC]

Repatriation route avoids town centre (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/wgheadlines/9070543.Repatriation_route_avoids_town_centre/)

Some very interesting comments from readers at the bottom of the article.

It looks like Brize Norton Village will become the next Wootton Bassett and I'm sure that The Chequers will show the same level of hospitality. But I'm not so sure if all the speed bumps and chicanes will be very dignified.

[Tiger_mate]

Bollox to the MP for Carterton; the address is 10 Downing Street!

The main gate and right is dignified without Carterton, but the crash gate and left has a distasteful irony to it.

[November4]

Some interesting comments in the article

the set up would be very different.

"It's grown into an industry in Wootton Bassett and I don't know whether that will happen in Oxfordshire."

the repatriations had been turned into a spectacle and added: "It's not a circus but a military homecoming."

From those comments I get the impression that Oxfordshire disproves of what happens at Wootton Bassett and it will not happen in Carterton.

[vernon99]

Tiger_mate
Bollox to the MP for Carterton; the address is 10 Downing Street!

One and the same as I understand it!

[Uncle Ginsters]

Ding-ding! All aboard the PPRuNe Outrage bus!!

Folks, before everyone leaps on a thin excuse to batter the next decision how about the facts?

What would be the operational impact on (Future) Brize and those currently deployed or deploying on Ops if the station had and used the luxury of stopping for as long as Lyneham does on repatriation days?

Is it Brize or the Thames Valley Police that have dictated that route?

For the most part, repatriations happen on a Thursday - market day in Carterton which blocks of the whole town centre from the back gate. If the main gate was used, then the route through the town would be out of the way - would it be right to bend away from a direct route for spectators' sakes?

Real reports from Wootten Bassett are varied - what started as a spontaneous mark of respect has grown into something very different. Of course there are those (any many of them) who are there for respectful reasons. Others' motives are, at the least, questionable. The local 'politician' in the OP's link is, of course, not in the least bit thinking about a bit of PR for his town and the 'Royal' title given to WB??

How about showing some respect to the families and not making them feel like their grief is on parade as their loved ones make the journey to the JR?

I don't think it's nearly as clear cut as some posters here would make out - the geography may be different (although remember repatriations were held at Brize prior to Lyneham) but the level of respect for the fallen most certainly isn't.

[E-Spy]

At risk of upsetting some of the previous posters, I agree with UG. Let the route be what it is - I don't think Wootton Bassett ever chose to be on the previous repatriation route, but the residents paid the utmost respect to all corteges which passed through. Those who wish to pay their respects will still come, those who would pay their respects because it would be convenient may not make the effort. The dignity of the repatriation will still be preserved, maybe more so, if the route is not forced through a town (and thus forced to become a spectacle) unnecessarily.

It is misplaced outrage if the only motive is to become 'Royal' Carterton (with no disrespect meant towards Royal Wootton Bassett).

[Brian 48nav]

If we pulled out of f*****g Afghanistan then we would't need a route!

[November4]

If we pulled out of f*****g Afghanistan then we would't need a route!

:D :D :D





10 characters

[stumpey]

The Politicos would, and have already, found some place else to poke their noses into and your lives in danger over. Unfortunately these days we seem to spend too much time and effort with the secondary role of the military - An extension of Political farce, rather than the primary role - Defence of the Nations shores!

I agree with many of the comments about it becoming a bit of a circus event, but anything other than the Main Gate is nothing but lack of respect. Its symbolic. Change the Market day, change the day of arrival, hell even build a new firkin road but show some official respect!



Shuffle the dead out the back - 'bout sums up this country AND most of its people!
Insha-Allah.:mad:

[heights good]

Guys, girls,

How about we all stop thinking about "us" and worry about "them" instead. The repatriation is for bringing our war dead home to their families in a dignified manner. We (and I mean the general population) see a band wagon driving past and jump on it because it seems like the right thing to do i.e. Be outraged at the route.

I certainly would not want any member of my family being paraded through the streets to appease peoples own guilt and feeling better for 5 minutes. Although the Armed Forces should be recognised for the sacrifice they make they do not need to be driven through the streets of a nearby town. I would want my family member to be home ASAP and with the least amount of fuss. Heroes deserve dignity in death not becoming a public spectacle.

If the outraged population want to show some respect then head to the National Arboretum or raise money for Help for Heroes or something similar. Throwing flowers on a passing can is, in my mind (and it is just my opinion) is pandering to the masses.

Just a thought, but, has anybody asked what the families would like rather than having decisions involving the masses being thrust upon them?

Just my tuppence worth.

HG

[AR1]

'Bassett was never chosen for anything, it simply is the only High street en-route to the mortuary. For me, that gatherings at Bassett became far too self concious very quickly, although I appreciate the sentiment of respect out of which they grew.

As has been stated, the important thing is that the families have a dignified repatration and reunion.

[stackedup]

Only posts #10 and #11 make any sense!

[Bill Macgillivray]

Respects will be paid whatever the route from Brize ! These will now be in addition to those already paid in Headington. The main concern is that the families, who have suffered and are still suffering, do not have any further grief inflicted upon them ! My own opinion is that the Press are in a "stirrring" mode.

[cazatou]

stackedup

Re your post No.15

May I point out that the LAST year that no British Service Personnel were killed on Active Service was 1968.

[mymatetcm]

This is not a new route, this was the route used many times, before repatriations moved to Lyneham.

[racedo]

If people wish to pay respect to persons being repatriated there is another occasions its called a "FUNERAL".

Any attempt to make routes to have a procession go through a town for the sake of going through a town so the media can get some pictures is telling families that their loved ones are ust part of a media circus.

[LFFC]

War dead to be driven down side streets to avoid the public (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8599504/War-dead-to-be-driven-down-side-streets-to-avoid-the-public.html)


Instead, they will arrive back to RAF Brize Norton, where they will be driven through the back gate and then down side roads, neatly avoiding the nearby town of Carterton, as they make their way to the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford.

Andrew Robathan, Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans, admitted that the decision to avoid public scenes of emotion had been taken deliberately.

[TheWizard]

Just a thought, but, has anybody asked what the families would like rather than having decisions involving the masses being thrust upon them?

Yes, the Station Commander and his staff at Brize Norton.

[MATELO]

Instead, they will arrive back to RAF Brize Norton, where they will be driven through the back gate and then down side roads, neatly avoiding the nearby town of Carterton, as they make their way to the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford.

If you drive through the back gate it takes you directly into Carterton.

And if they mean side roads as in the A40, then I guess they must have big roads elsewhere in the country.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Silly question I suppose but doesn't anyone here understand the concept of a "choke point"? The John Radcliffe is the end point, it doesn't matter how many potential routes there are - won't you always catch it at the Radcliffe?

I know... It'll piss off the peaceniks in Oxford... :rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

AA

A local branch of RBL always parades here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=marston+oxford&ll=51.763909,-1.22533&spn=0.001813,0.005284&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&gl=uk&t=h&z=18) for repatriations. It is the last section of public road before entering the JR grounds.

[Blacksheep]

neatly avoiding the nearby town of Carterton, as they make their way to the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford. Its odd, but when I was serving at RAF Brize Norton we had to take our daughter to the John Radcliffe Hospital for her regular check-ups. On no occasion ever did we pass through or near Carterton since it is not on the most direct route to Oxford. A shorter route would be to turn right, then left onto the A4095 through Curbridge. Of course, there would then be no High Street along the route for the Press and crowds to gather and "pay their respects". :rolleyes:

[Uncle Ginsters]

The route takes in Monahan Way (the Brize Norton village bypass) - this has parking at the sports pavilion coupled with wide grass verges. I'd be pretty sure that anyone wanting to pay their respects could stand there...

This is typical sensationalist journalism that misses the key points, sadly it's been stoked up by some fairly ill-thought out comments by Robathan and the like.

[BEagle]

The quickest route from Gate 6 to the Charterville Allotments A40 on-ramp is about 2.5 miles. Instead of turning left along Carterton Road at the Brize Norton mini-roundabout, continue north along Manor Road and Minster Road to the B4477 roundabout.

The proposed processional route along Carterton Road, round the Norton Way roundabout and the Monahan Way roundabout to the B4477 roundabout adds over 1.5 miles to the route. It has clearly not been selected for expediency.

Unfortunately, despite protests, the stupid design of Monahan Way means that RAF Brize Norton still does not have a good road connection with the A40. Alternative proposals for the road to terminate at the Asthall barrow roundabout were rejected.

Certain Cartoontown low-life make a hobby of defacing the place; I sincerely hope that the proposed memorial garden on Monahan Way will be adequately safeguarded.

[EnigmAviation]

Moving repatriation to BZN was a gift for the "yes minister" spin meisters. Wootton Basset had long become an embarrassment for HMG where the media saw and reported the weekly repatriations from a war where "not a shot was to be fired in anger" ( remember Dr John Reid - Defence Minister - that's what he said !) - and yet surprisingly, we are approaching 400 killed, not to mention the massive numbers of lives ruined by serious injury. I have not seen ANY views expressed by relatives of the deceased resenting the dedications of the people of WB.

As we are now politically set to withdraw, it seems much better to our 2nd division Defence ministers that this very public evidence of the true cost of a very ill advised foreign venture, is shielded from media attention. ( Those shocking media people keep telling us what is happening - couldn't we close them all down !)

The same HMG has also mysteriously found £260M down the back of the Downing St sofa to fund yet another foreign "misadventure" ( and has reputedly found as much again hidden in the Treasury to fund the next 6 months of Gadaffi's downfall) into yet another nation's private business, in spite of scrapping various defence programmes, and claiming that the Gadaffi venture was costing only tens of millions !

Surprising how the new war is "funded from reserves" - I thought when GB left office, one of his Ministers reported " nothing left in the drawers or safe" ( Mr Byrne ?) - who was right ?
;)

[tmobile]

"not a shot was to be fired in anger" ( remember Dr John Reid - Defence Minister - that's what he said !) Actually, just to get the facts right here, there is no public record of John Reid saying as defence secretary that "not a shot was to be fired in anger".

What Reid actually said - as he described in parliament - was that troops were there to help the Afghan reconstruction effort, and "would be perfectly happy" to leave without firing a shot.

But regardless of this nuance, this is the kind of phrase that seems bound to come back to haunt the government.

So please, just like you complain when the newspapers or TV News get the facts wrong, check.

[EnigmAviation]

Amendment accepted with good grace !. I daresay Dr Reid should therefore be feeling pretty unhappy with the result of the intervention with it's attendant enormous costs in human life,serious injury and £Bn's cost. Especially so when the achievement or otherwise is reviewed 10 years after we all leave and mind our own business.:sad: History books should be good works of reference for politicans who pursue interventionist policies in faraway lands.

[Blue Bottle]

Its ok, at PMQ's today 'Nigel Dodds, a DUP MP, asks about the new arrangements being made for the repatriation of servicemen killed abroad.

"Call me Dave" says a lot of thought has gone into how the arrangements will work when repatriation takes place at Brize Norton.

Politics blog + PMQs - live | Politics | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/jun/29/politics-blog-pmqs-live)

[mmitch]

The final route will definitely involve at least one U turn. :*
mmitch.

[tommee_hawk]

An earlier post suggested that the proposed repatriation route has been used before at Brize Norton - this is incorrect.

Exiting through Gate 6 has been proposed for repatriation corteges because it is the nearest exit gate to the new purpose-built repatriation centre on the south side of the runway at Brize; corteges would then not have to cross the runway approach with potential (inappropriate) delays at the runway 26 end traffic lights on their way to the main gate.

Before moving to Lyneham, repatriation ceremonies at Brize took place on the north side of the runway, on the airfield side of the Brize terminal building - this led to the natural use of the Station main exit road down to the main Station entrance (gate 2).

There are obviously no plans to use either of the 2 current main exits from Brize.

[LFFC]

Speed bumps scupper repatriation vigils (http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/07/04/speed-bumps-scupper-repatriation-vigils)

Mr Robathan said the route would not pass through the village of Carterton on its way to Oxford because its streets "are very narrow for a modern village" and because it has "speed bumps which are not suitable for corteges". It will pass through the village of Brize Norton, however.

...... which, of course, is narrower than Carterton and has speed bumps and traffic chicanes!

But I do predict that Brize Norton village will become the natural gathering place for people wishing to pay their respects, not at a specially built "viewing area"!