Helicopter down at Redhill

[John R81]

My EC120 G-FEDA suffered an accident this evening at Redhill. Three POB - all safe and (I understand) uninjured. No-one on the ground was hurt. The machine looks like a write-off. CAA informed.

The machine appears to have spun and caught the ground, leading to dynamic rollover, but I did not see it happen so this is from witnesses, who may comment later.

When I got down to the airfield she was on her side. The blades are shattered down to the root, though all three roots still attached to the hub. Tail broke off, etc, etc. One blade section was thrown part-way through the wall on the first floor of an office building close by, another fragment went through the window.

The cabin structure is completely intact, and protected the occupants who exited by jettisoning the left front door.

When lifted, no fuel seems to have escaped (about 120kg on board).

Still, I don't think this will polish out:

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy133/Nuthurst1/DSC03084.jpg

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy133/Nuthurst1/DSC03085.jpg

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy133/Nuthurst1/DSC03100.jpg

[Senior Pilot]

John R81,

Commiserations: what a sad thing to happen to such a nice machine :sad:

[Satcop]

By chance the duty fire crew were watching GFEDA land and saw it start to "spin quickly" and were en-route almost immediately. The surface wind was not very helpful being generally easterly 10 gust 25 knots.

Anyway the result was this

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/Satcop/GFEDA_4Jun.jpg

luckily everyone got out OK.

Hope the insurance pays out quickly John.

[SASless]

Nice it happened so close to the hangar....saves time on getting started on the repairs....and getting over the hedge to the Pub!

Glad all aboard are okay....and perhaps in need of an undie wear change.

[stringfellow]

very brave to commit photos you must be really shook up. been out in a jet ranger today and the wind was very unhelpful could not make its mind up.

[007helicopter]

Glad to here occupants safe, I had the pleasure of a few hours in G-FEDA and sorry to here this.

[JTobias]

John R81

Oh my G-D. I've seen your machine around and its a stunning aircraft
So sorry to see it end this way. Although I'm no expert, I reckon that you're initial assessment of it being a write off/not likely to polish out is pretty accurate.

Thankfully, no-one was injured and I suspect the pilot isn't feeling great this evening (I'm sure you're not over the moon either) but I've always been told that every landing you walk away from is a good landing. Some are clearly better than others though !!!

Hope you manage to replace it and get airborne again soon.

Best regards


Joel :ok:

[John R81]

Thanks for your good wishes.

Yes - hole in the wall pic 1 is a 1m section of rotor blade.

All are OK, Pilot is understandably shook up.

Mistakes can happen, and in helicopters it goes from "awesome" to "awful" in fractions of a second. That is what insurance is for. Bent metal (composite?) and be replaced.

[ironchefflay]

An AS332L G-BKZG rolled on a ships helideck some years ago, with a lot more damage and was rebuilt and still flying. im sure this one could be also. just maybe not economical for the insurance.

the phoenix may rise again!

[DBChopper]

John R81 - thanks for posting pics and comment before rumours and speculation got in the way of the facts. As a fellow Redhill helicopterer I am used to seeing G-FEDA around. A very pretty machine and I'm really sorry to see her like this.

Well done to the Redhill fire crew by all accounts for getting there so quickly and I'm glad all the occupants walked away in one piece. I hope they enjoyed their pint!

[toptobottom]

John - truly sorry to hear about your pride and joy, but thank goodness everyone walked away. Beautiful machine that inspired my own search for a 120. If you're looking for a lift up to CPOP, I'll happily be your taxi driver and we can talk 120s :ok:. Presumably, you'll be looking for another one...

It was quite windy yesterday - 20 gusting 35. I'd be interested to hear if this had anything to do with it, particularly close to the hangar.

All the best
TTB

[Arrrj]

John,

Greetings from Australia. Very sad to see your lovely machine smashed up. You have a very good attitude though, as everyone was OK, and you can get a new machine - Eurocopter no doubt will look after you.

May I suggest you stay with the same colour - looks fantastic.

Upset on your behalf ! :{

Kind regards,
Arrrj

[s1lverback]

Hi John..Just heard via Facebk from Kevin and Lee

Truly gutted for you (and me) mate :{ ...but glad all POB were safe/ no bystanders injured.

Note: The replacement has to be the same colours or the T-shirts I have will have to be changed :}

All the best,
PM or call me if you like,
Dee

[FLY 7]

Any similarities?

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/108176-ec120-crash-swansea-airport.html

[22clipper]

It's a sight I never get used too, a wrecked chopper laying on it's side. It always reminds me of a fish out of water. And it can happen in the blink of an eye. Sometimes I think if I blink the machine will be upright again with blades, but it never happens.
We had a gent join up to the Sydney R'Heads a month or two ago. Put himself on the email list for an inbox full of our idle banter. He was the proud owner of a brand new fadec squirrel with less than fifty hours. It caught on fire one Friday afternoon at YSBK & burned to nothing, just the tail fin left. Our new recruit got away with singed knees & a broken collar bone.
In true R'Head spirit he gets the "RotorHead most likely" award for this year. In this case the R'Head most likely to operate the BBQ at our next get together. I've ordered him a copy of the David Sedaris 2009 best seller 'When you are engulfed in flames'. A little light reading while he picks himself up, dusts himself off & climbs back into the saddle.

[John R81]

Looking for the positive, it seems the "Crashworthy fuel system" claim by Eurocopter for the EC120 Was right. And the passenger cell stood up well to the roll, the seats and restraints performed well.

The accident 22Clipper mentioned may not have started too differently, but here a fuel fire with one passenger a Senior Citizen would have led to a different end. (best wishes to the 350 pilot, broken bones and burns - not funny)


Present thought is to look for another EC120 - if things do go wrong the a modern design of machine just has to protect you more than something from the 70's.

[EN48]

It was quite windy yesterday - 20 gusting 35. I'd be interested to hear if this had anything to do with it, particularly close to the hangar.


Interesting thought. Wondering about tail rotor authority margins on the 120? As has been pointed out here by many, some helicopters have plenty and some not quite enough.

It is often said of these situations that "there are those who have and those who will." The goal is to remain in the latter category as long as possible. With this in mind, and as a relative newbie to helicopters, I have established a "personal minimum" of 25 kts peak wind as one no go criteria, at least for awhile (without an instructor on board). (B407)

[hands_on123]

or this again?!

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/18793-mobile-phone-cause-emergency.html

[birrddog]

John, condolences.

I must say I am impressed with your attitude.

Hopefully you can get another machine quickly.

[John R81]

Hands on 123 - design change since that to reduce the risk of similar happening again. I would not say it is impossible, but would personally go to "unlikely"

Fly 7, since the Swansea accident there have been (a couple of) mods to move the CoG backward. FEDA had all the necesary mods as she flew passenger transport work. Similarities are really "dynamic rollover" finish but I think the start of events may simply be wind catching the left side of the tail and starting a harsh spin tot he left.

FEDA was landing to face West, wind from the East 10G25kt at the time. I personally don't see that the proximity of the hangers would be an issue in these circumstances - also I flew her earlier in the day and landed same pad in similar conditions. Certainly a day for fast feet and an eye to where the wind is hitting that big sail of a tail, but not an issue with the hangers.

AAIB report will be filed. Will wait to see what the pilot remembers of events. Even though I saw the machine yesterday evening I would be speculating as to cause of the spin starting - having not spoken with the pilot; he had been sent home as in shock (who wouldn't be!).

[flying chippy]

payback in a couple of weeks John :E

I flew that lunchtime in one of the 44's & it was a long tense taxi back to the hanger with that wind up your chuff...

[nigelh]

I flew an A109 into the same place around 4pm and it wasnt gusting up to 25 then ...i presume the wind picked up later ? What time did this happen ?
Great shame in any event and i hope you find a replacement v soon !!
( having said that it could have been quite gusty judging by the remarks from Miles and Peter ( pilots at Arena ) about my landing :eek:

[Exo.]

Wind 9G21, not out of the realms most would consider; but a day in which the wind was incredibly variable by direction, especially later in the day and at the north end of the field where it is often funnelled in a more northerly manner.

No trapped articles in this case as far as I'm aware.

[PotentialPilot]

Regards to you John,

Last saw her flying over me while queing up for the london eye, about 14:30 yesterday and also a pleasant flight a while ago was enjoyable in training.

Commiserations to your loss!

Take care in the future onwards

[HowlingMad Murdock]

Hi! I saw this Thread as I logged in - could not believe the pics! Glad all P.O.B. ok - So sorry for your loss, John. :sad: I have been lucky to have 'lifted' in this amazing heli.......G-FEDA will indeed be missed, regards, Hangar Rat.

[Swiss Cheese]

John,

I have spent many happy hours flying FEDA. She is now on her final journey to the golden helipad in the skies, subject to some salvage (10-15% at best of her agreed value).

Well done on keeping a pragmatic and philosophical attitude to this mishap... at least you did not have to fork out for a new strobe unit as well.

Ken's words ring in my ears of "turn to the right to avoid a fright", and this is especially true when the wind is gusting perpendicular to Hangar 1 from the right.

I hope those nice insurers pay within 14 days, and are sensible with the salvage.

James

[parasite drag]

"I hope those nice insurers pay within 14 days" :confused:

I was part of a group that owned/operated a heli, coincidentally from the same airfield....said machine eventually met it's maker at the hands of a 'newbie'...

It was insured with the 'main' firm but from memory the payout came after about 3 months...

[Brilliant Stuff]

Thankfully no-one got hurt.

My commiseration's to the owner and the pilot.

I hope the pilot will be in the air again asap in order to put this incident into perspective.

Sadly that could have been any of us.

Safe flying to everyone.

That machine had a cracking paint-job especially with the sense of humour.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

I was around the Biggin Hill area (at ground level) that day. Occasionally, it was very gusty in the most literal sense of going from not much to lots. It would be interesting to look at sub minute resolution wind speed for that day.

[helihub]

see here (http://www.redhillaerodrome.com/index.php/component/content/article/34-news/96-press-release-6-june)

On Saturday 4th June 2011 at 1753 hours BST an EC120 helicopter registration GFEDA was being flown by a private pilot and was returning from a local flight with two passengers on board. Whilst manoeuvring, in the gusty surface wind, on to the landing pad the helicopter started to rotate quickly; it the made contact with the ground and rolled on to its side. The Aerodrome Rescue and Fire Fighting crew were on scene within one minute and assisted the persons on board. There was no fire, no injuries and no fuel/fluid leaks.

As part of the Aerodrome’s standard response to an aircraft accident, the outside emergency services were alerted and units from Surrey Police, Surrey Fire and Rescue and South East Coast Ambulance service attended. The passengers and crew of the helicopter were seen briefly by the ambulance service before being released without treatment.

The accident has been notified to the Air Accident Investigation Branch of the Department for Transport and will be subject to an Aircraft Accident Report Form investigation by them.

The helicopter was operated by EBG Helicopters based at Redhill Aerodrome.
Issued by SATCO Redhill Aerodrome Limited.

[1helicopterppl]

John,

if you're looking for another 120 of similar vintage (2000) in UK there are a few around for sale......

G-IGPW, (1999), G-OMEM, 1998 & completely refurbished & painted, G-TGGR, 2001, G-ZZZS, (2002).
As an aside, Eurocopter have had a 2008 120 in store at Kidlington for 3yrs !

Agree with fellow pruners, your acceptance of the situation is admirable

[Brilliant Stuff]

I have also seen a green 120 parked in the hangar at ECUK.

ECUK spent a lot of money on their sales-department I think you should visit it.

[John R81]

So it is official - got the forms from insurance people; economic write-off. They will pay out the hull value and take the machine to sell by closed tender for scrap. Saw her today hanging from the roof of the maintenance hanger - did look rather sad.

Time to start looking in ernest!

[HowlingMad Murdock]

JohnR81 - Oooooh! seeing poor sad FEDA hanging from roof must not have been easy....though as Swiss Cheese stated 'she is now on her final journey to the golden helipad in the sky' She will be happy there........ and am sure oodles of bods have pics, videos and wonderful memories of flying in her!
All the best in your search for a new heli!:) Regards, Hangar Rat.

[toptobottom]

John
G-OTFL is new to the market - asking £475k but 12 year insp. due imminently (15 year engine inspection not due until 2020 due to being grounded in 2005 for 12+ months - needed inspecton by EC before flying). TT870 (all private), new interior, slaved HSI. According to G-INFO, it's in N Ireland. Nothing to do with me I hasten to add!
TTB

[Bravo73]

Time to start looking in ernest!

I don't know if you've seen it but there is also a private EC120 listed in the current Helidata. £465k + VAT. (Although from reading the description, it might well be G-OFTL).


HTH

[toptobottom]

Yep - same machine. My mistook, it's up for £465k.
TTB

[B Sousa]

Curious as to Pilot experience and what happened?

[John R81]

Insurance money on it's way..........
Hole aleady buring in pocket..........
Need to invest my money in precious metal..........
No metal more precious than helicopter components (at least accoring to what I have to pay to get any!)
That's it then!

Hoping for next machine to be sorted by end of next week.
Another EC120

[OvertHawk]

Glad to hear it!

Hope you find a nice machine and get back up and running soon!

OH

[1helicopterppl]

John,

if you have purchased 'FL I'm sure you are aware its previous reg was G-IBRI which is very appropriate for a 120, just a thought.......

look forward to you up & flying again.

[StAn gelo]

This beastie?
http://helicopters-ni.smugmug.com/Helicopters/Private-Corporate/i-d5TKQFW/0/M/G-OTFL3A300510-M.jpg
:ok:

[John R81]

Yes, 'FL is my new dream.

1HPPL - still flying, but it's R44 for me until I complete the deal.

[John R81]

Deal is done. Collection 22 July - weather permitting (looking good so far)

Can't wait

[hands_on123]

Just out of interest, is there a no-claims bonus system on helicopter insurance? They seem to pay out a lot quicker than car insurance providers? Has your insurance increased because of the accident?

[HowlingMad Murdock]

Fantastic News about your new heli John R81 - nice! :) all the best, hangar rat.

[John R81]

H123 - No. It works on the basis of a hull value. If the insurer writes-off the machine as an economic loss they pay the agreed value and the wreck becomes theirs. They then put the wreck out to sealed-bid and sell the salvage to recoup as much of their loss as possible. Although extensively damages, G-FEDA had a lot of avionics etc that were undamaged and the engine core is (I understand) OK too.

Insurance through Haywards - can't fault them at all.

New machine insured through Haywards also. There isn't a price hit but underwriters have included restrictions - minimum experience. Not a problem for me but strongly suspect I should not make a habit of losing machines / claiming. Insurance comes live Friday when I hope to bring the new ship home.

HMM - that gap in the hanger will soon be filled!

John

[HowlingMad Murdock]

John R81 - Yaaahoo! Nice lookin' heli! :) Am sure it will be snug as a bug in a rug/right at home in the hanger-regards, hangar rat.

[nellycopter]

Hi john r81,

Did your ec120 have the fuel flow kit fitted ?

[John R81]

So, here it is back at Redhill:
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy133/Nuthurst1/Arrival.jpg


Purchased from Northern Ireland, it was a 4.3 hr flight back to Redhill. After taking delivery, lifting out was from a confined space and 3-up with 270kg of fuel took us to the yellow but not a problem. Through the Belfast city zone and coasted out at Ballywalter. Brushing the edge of the Mull of Galloway and Burrow Head (with Scottish Information all the way) we passed North of Carlisle and with poorer weather than preferred for a direct route over the Pennines, we took the valley route East into Newcastle's airspace, and turned South for a fuel stop at Durham Tees Valley.

From there it was almost a straight line to London City, but with Easterly landings the only crossing clearance offered was declined as it seemed to risk breaching the "Land Clear" rule for a single, so we routed East of the zone before crossing the Thames West of the QEII bridge and routing South of Biggin Hill for Redhill.

2.2hrs to reach Durham Tees Valley and 2.1hrs (with the detour) to Redhill. Well inside our fuel planning, landing both times with our reserve intact and a good margin beyond that.

First impressions - very good. She is a very smooth aircraft. Even with floates fitted we had a fast cruise (85% on the FLI) at 120knt IAS with 3 pax, 270kg fuel and with the wheels in the cargo bay. Slight vibrations from 110kt so we slowed to 80% on the FLI and maintained 110 to 115 knt IAS.

Weather was good throughout the journey with some rain showers that generally did not trouble us. Over the Irish Sea there was more, and lower, cloud and I was happy to have taken the shortest crossing point. It looks worse in this photo than it was, photo taken from the rear seat looking into a cloud bank we were descending to pass underneath.
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy133/Nuthurst1/Irishsea.jpg

Issues to solve:
1. Slight leak in the top left pannel of the transparancies. I stayed dry but Ken enjoyed the left seat less, I think.
2. The throttle needs adjusting - backing to the gate at 60% actually takes the turbine to 55% which is not self-sustaining
3. The tow-cart does not fit - different installation of the landing light compared to last machine - some welding of the cart needed.
4. No gas in the air conditioning

Aside from that, paperwork completed today for transfer and posted to CAA.
Nellycopter - not sure what you mean, Can you expand?

[toptobottom]

Well done John - looks very nice (and a good price) :ok:

[helihub]

Really pleased you got everything sorted so quickly. However, looks like your acquisition will need a 12Y overhaul later this year, whereas you were banking on next year for FEDA?

[PotentialPilot]

Looks like a beauty, I think i've seen her overhead a few times already (Yesterday and Thursday poss). I'll be looking out when i'm down redhill next time.
Congrats John.

[John R81]

Actually only months apart November to May. I would have scheduled it early anyway to avoid missing the early 2012 season (going to miss the middle bit anyway for Olympic restrictions).

Current news is that mandatory parts are just 2400 Euro so with mechanic time and paint touch up it could cost only £50k if you are lucky and nothing horrid is found.

Fingers crossed

Currently, floats off for testing and bottle off for hydrostatic testing. I will also need to swap out the transponder for a Garmin 328 mode S.

John

[John R81]

AAIB report published

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/EC120B%20Colibri,%20G-FEDA%2009-11.pdf

[miket_68]

HI.

Do you no longer use EBG to lease your 120 to ?

I am looking for someone to rent the 120 from, I have flown the current one EBG has, and it flys very nice.

Mike

[John R81]

EGB have 2 EC120s (one is mine, G-OTFL pictured above). Which one did you fly?

[miket_68]

Appologies for the delay in my reply, I managed to unlink my email account with pprune, so I didnt get a notification that anyone had let a comment .

I flew G-IGPW, it flew very nicely, downwind auto hyd off to the ground was a non event.

I am looking to type rate on the 120 shortly,

I will be popping down to EBG for a chat with Ken in the next couple of weeks to discuss it.

I dont think he is looking to SFH the 120 anymore I can't imagine what the insurance limitations are. Unless you can tell me what yours are.

Moving up from a jetranger to an EC120 is like moving form your first mini onto a luxury sports car.

Mike