Rans S6 questions

[Dr_Tre]

Hi folks

I'm in the early stages of looking at buying a share in a Rans S6 and just have a few questions (I have searched the forum for answers - honest!) for anyone who flies/ has flown one and maybe had dealings with the 'engineering' side of them too.

1. The skins on the aircraft were last replaced in 2002. The aircraft is kept covered in a hangar 99.9% of the time and the skins seem to be in good condition from what I can see. Is there a time limited lifespan on the skins or are they just replaced as required?
2. What is the approx cost of replacing the skins?
3. Theres no power socket for GPS, how easy and approx how much £££ would it cost to install one?
4. The engine is relatively new having undergone its first 50 hr inspection (airframe 900 hrs) its a rotax 582-48, is that a blue or silver top (or is it not that easy to tell apart)?
5. Approx cost of engine overhaul at 300 hrs?


This would be my first foray into microlights hence my limited knowledge! - Thanks everyone, I appreciate your help:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hi folks

I'm in the early stages of looking at buying a share in a Rans S6 and just have a few questions (I have searched the forum for answers - honest!) for anyone who flies/ has flown one and maybe had dealings with the 'engineering' side of them too.

Not necessarily the most modern aeroplane of that class - I'd also look at the X'Air, Sky Ranger, Thruster T600, Ikarus C42 at-least. That said, many people have had a lot of fun with the Rans, so I'd not discount it either.

1. The skins on the aircraft were last replaced in 2002. The aircraft is kept covered in a hangar 99.9% of the time and the skins seem to be in good condition from what I can see. Is there a time limited lifespan on the skins or are they just replaced as required?

They are lifed by inspection - and the polyester fabric is degraded primarily by UV light. If it's kept in a dark hangar, the sails are potentially fine. On BMAA aeroplanes the standard test would be with a device called a Bettsometer (I don't know the LAA system so well, but I'd guess they do something similar) and it does no harm to check this.

2. What is the approx cost of replacing the skins?

The UK Rans dealer is SkyCraft (http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/) who should be able to tell you the price of new sails.


3. Theres no power socket for GPS, how easy and approx how much £££ would it cost to install one?

LAA minor mod, probably around £45, plus a few quid for parts, moderate effort and a bit of time from your local inspector. This assumes the engine has a rectifier/regulator already fitted to the lighting coil.

4. The engine is relatively new having undergone its first 50 hr inspection (airframe 900 hrs) its a rotax 582-48, is that a blue or silver top (or is it not that easy to tell apart)?

The blue top (model 99) and silver top (model 90) are both 582/48-2V; they're basically interchangeable - just the newer blue-top is a bit more robust. They're easy to tell apart visually - just look at the paint colour on the cylinder head - it'll be either silver or blue.

900 hrs on the airframe, and 50 on the engine, is fine so long as it all seems to be in good condition. Do check the logbooks to make sure the maintenance schedules have been followed properly.

5. Approx cost of engine overhaul at 300 hrs?

See 2-st service prices (http://www.conairsports.co.uk/2-st%20service%20prices.html) ; but you can do it yourself and just pay for parts.


This would be my first foray into microlights hence my limited knowledge! - Thanks everyone, I appreciate your help:ok:

You'll enjoy yourself - simple 2-stroke engined microlights like this are fantastic in terms of fun for your money, and so long as you're not in a hurry, great for running around the country into little strips and big airports alike.

A final thought - the pilots notes for the Rans are poor to the point of being dangerous. Get yourself converted by an experienced pilot on type (preferably the individual aeroplane), don't just use the manual and teach yourself onto the aeroplane.

Final point, you'll obviously need differences training with a microlight instructor. Shouldn't take long if you're a reasonably experienced light aeroplane pilot, but don't skimp - microlights are different in enough ways that'll bite you if not trained.

G

[Rod1]

LAA leaflet on buying second hand permit aircraft;

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Building,%20Buying%20or%20Importing/TL%201.05%20Second%20Hand%20Aircraft.pdf

The power socket probably would not be a mod, just an inspector sigh off. Mine cost about £3 ish.

Do you have an inspector in mind? If not there is a full list searchable by post code on the web site.

Rod1

[Dr_Tre]

Rod1 - thanks for the link, i'll read it thoroughly. Is this aircraft 'looked after' by the LAA rather than the BMAA then? No Idea about inspectors as I currently fly a non equity warrior maintained by a flying school. - I'll check the list, I do have an idea who does the permit though- I guess that would be a good starting point.

Genghis, thanks also for the links and advice. At a cost of nearly 4K i'll certainly get the skins checked out before I buy into this aircraft! Do you know if I would be able to fit them myself with inspector sign-off?


cheers :ok:

[Rod1]

It is almost certainly LAA. Not sure which variant of the “6” but look for the right “TAD” if this is not it.

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/204%20RANS%20S6-ES.pdf

If you set stuck and you need help with the “system” etc drop me a PM and I will help if I can.

You will be able to fit the skins with inspector oversight.

Rod1

[Genghis the Engineer]

All Rans aeroplanes are LAA, not BMAA.

Both organisations systems should permit you to do just about any work on the aeroplane yourself, with various levels of independent sign-off. Sails should just be another qualified pilot - I'd not expect it to require an inspector for something that straightforward, but you can get it if the comfort level makes you happier.

Last time I refitted a set of skins on a similar aeroplane it took two of us about 90 minutes.

G

[Pannie]

(not my first post here - just keep losing my access details as I move)

Is your aircraft definitely a microlight? The non-microlight versions have a more useful load and a much higher cruise speed. Tail or nose wheel?

My skins had been changed after about 10 years. It had done similar hours to yours and I assume it was kept indoors at the homebase. It is possible to spray them with a UV protector but there are downsides to that too.

The quote you have seems to include the fitting of the skins, and is a pretty involved job which I wouldn't attempt without the original build manual. It would also involve disconnection of controls and removal of flying surfaces, and therefore the inspections that that would necessitate. I would be surprised if a first timer could do it in less than a week.

You might find surplus skins available via Rans.com US website as long as you are not fussy about the colour, or whether the wings are the same colour as the fuselage etc. There may even be pattern skin makers around.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Pannie, how does the same plane with different documents achieve more speed? Especially with more weight on board? Or are you referring to the various wing options?

To the O/P: don't be put off by the "outdated" comments. While not untrue, they might well be irrelevant for you. I have done my little bit of flying on a variety of types, and have the fondest memories of the Coyote. Sturdily built and forgiving to its pilot, It is an ideal beginner's microlight, yet makes a fair travelling machine.

For myself, I wouldn't wish to fly it with a 2-stroke engine, but I must admit I am biased, having had a 2-stroke fail on me just after take-off. Though 2-strokes don't have a monopoly for that, I know...

PS I am surprised that fitting a 12V power socket would require any paperwork at all in the UK. In France they would even think about filing any document about such a minor mod, and even in this more strict country I wouldn't bother either. If you do install the socket yourself, think twice about what fuse to place where.

[Pannie]

Hi Jan, yes, I am referring to the two main wing options; the 'Group A' (or whatever they call it now) 116sqft wing, and the microlight wing of 160sqft(?). The former will gently cruise with a 912 at 105mph, or easily 110mph, but the VNE is 120mph (de-rated by the LAA by 10mph compared with the USA). I guess the 2-stroke powered micros do about 85mph, but I am not sure what a similar engined 'Group A' would do. The downside of the 116 wing is slightly higher take-off and stall speeds - my 116 wing stalled at 45mph.
I believe the earlier S6 micros have a weight limit of 430kg and the later and upgraded have 450kgs. The 116 in the UK has a max weight of 499kg (1100lbs downgraded again by the LAA from the US 1200lbs). When full of fuel this gives a spare 200kgs for pilot and mate and gear.:ok:. It out performs the C152 in almost every way.
I agree about the 2-strokes, I think I would always go for a 4-stroke - partly because the 2-strokes seem to need so much pampering. I have never flown a 2-stroke (except as a passenger) so now I'll run for cover :ouch:

[AnglianAV8R]

Aside from the Group A 116 wing aircraft, the majority of S6 are in the microlight category.They have a considerably greater winspan at around 34ft. They were first introduced into the UK in the 390kg MAUW with a 50hp Rotax 503 2stroke engine. That is what I have at present, a simple machine with fixed flaps but having the luxury of electric start. Mods to the higher weight are possible, but only to 430kg with a 503 engine. With the more powerful engines the higher weight limit is 450kg. Later machines are permitted to the current limit of 450kg. The 65hp 582 gives improved climb but not that much more in the cruise. Mine trundles along at 75mph in the cruise.
Later on the 4stroke era resulted in the ubiquitous Rptax 912 bringing its 80hp to the show and real touring potential. The 80hp Jabiru 2200 is also an accepted engine for the type along with the 65hp HKS 4stroke.
The S6 is still available but the US$ has been rather strong against the £ over the last few years resulting in them being more expensive to buy.
The airframe is an excellent design, durable and capable of giving thousands of hours of service. I am planning to put a 4stroke engine in mine and will venture across the water to europe in her next year.

[Pannie]

My personal opinion, unless you can get hold of a pretty cheap 4-stroke, is that I wouldn't go to the trouble of converting an a/c; I would sell it and buy another.

I reckon the Jabiru sounds much nicer than the 912.

[Dr_Tre]

Thanks to all the replies so far. It is definitely a microlight and has a 450Kg MTOW.

The aircraft is an S6 ESD XL. I visited her recently and noted that the last Weight and Balance was performed in 2002 which, according to the first link that Rod1 posted, would indicate that it the aircraft is overdue for another weigh-in. Is it a legal requirement to have a new w&b every 5 years? (it would appear so).

[Genghis the Engineer]

All microlights need re-weighing every 5 years, and contrary to what was posted above LAA inspectors can't sign off new modifications - that needs to be approved by LAA Engineering at Turweston.

Both are, however, pretty straightforward, normally taking an hour or so - most of which is the paperwork!

G

[Rod1]

G the E is quite right about Inspectors not being able to sign off most mods. However the definition of a mod is a complex subject! Adding a connector to an electrical system would not normally be a mod. The work would need to be done using “standard aircraft practices” and can be signed off by an inspector.

If you do need a mod then this is a complex area as some mods can be signed off by an inspector and some require a full design review. I am in the process of fitting a new fuel tank, involving around 40 – 50 hours of work and some big mods to the fuel system. It is a “manufacturer mod” and just needs an Inspector sign off of a log entry with a copy to the LAA. The mod upgrades my tank to make it compatible with the latest mogas and hopefully E10 in the near future!

Rod1

[Genghis the Engineer]

If in doubt, an email to LAA engineering usually solves that question.

G