Route to being an airline pilot for a young kiwi

[Kilda Ste Hilda]

I've got a young cousin down in the Godzone pestering me about the best way to get a carrier as an airline pilot in New Zealand. I live in the Northern end of the world and I am afraid I cannot be of much help to him.
He had just completed middle school and will be in high school soon. He plans to embark on flying right after high school. I have advised him that a college or university degree would be very much helpful but he is insistent that a flying school will suffice.
Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?
What about the route through small regional airlines...is this advisable?
Thanks for your indulgence, ppruners down south:D

[27/09]

I have advised him that a college or university degree would be very much helpful but he is insistent that a flying school will suffice.

He is correct, a good flying school will suffice, there are several spread right through New Zealand. Where does he live?


Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?

In an word, No.

What about the route through small regional airlines...is this advisable?

This is the normal route down here.

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

I can see 1000's of pilots all over this blue planet reading this thread and thinking of a polite way to discourage our young Kiwi friend from making a mistake.

A career in anything else would prove more profitable, maybe healthier, and a lot less stressful.

Given the sychophantic GenY managers who continue to dislocate the pilot body in search of inflated bonuses.. could go on forever!!

Sadly.

Blue Foot

[waren9]

Remoak will be along shortly, and on this topic I will be inclined to agree with him.

Avoid the sausage factories and go overseas.
:ok:

[tail wheel]

Kilda Ste Hilda.

Have you tried our Search function? All your questions and more would be answered in great detail.

[mattyj]

train as a town planner..specialise in public transport infrastrucure..get a job for the Auckland City Council (sorry Supercity) Retire by thirty..buy your own plane

PS never buy a house in the supercity, the rates will ruin you :*

[Howard Hughes]

Does Air New Zealand, JetStar or Virgin Australia have any cadet pilot programme suitable for a Kiwi wannabe?

Hang on a minute, what about Qantas?:eek:

[empacher48]

What's QANTAS?

[PyroTek]

What's QANTAS?

Something historical, I hear...:E

[Worrals in the wilds]

Don’t put your daughter on the stage, Mrs. Worthington
Don’t put your daughter on the stage
The profession is overcrowded
The struggle’s pretty tough
And admitting the fact she’s burning to act
That isn’t quite enough
She’s a nice girl and though her teeth are fairly good
She’s not the type I ever would be eager to engage
I repeat, Mrs. Worthington, sweet Mrs. Worthington
Don’t put your daughter on the stage

Noel Coward, 1947. The same cautions apply for wannabe pilots, even when they want to put themselves on the stage! They are two very similar industries.

[remoak]

Remoak will be along shortly, and on this topic I will be inclined to agree with him.

Lol... ok then...

If the lad really, really, really wants to do it, tell him to go for it, because nothing we say is going to stop him anyway.

If he isn't 1000% committed, tell him to be smart and go get an MBA. More money, more time off, no six monthly checks to worry about.

If he can get a Euro passport, tell him to get over there and do a JAA/EASA licence. Far more jobs on much better machinery, with far bigger airlines than Air NZ which is pretty puny in international terms. Better money too.

If he has to stay in NZ, warn him that NZ aviation is a parochial backwater, and that bending over and taking it like a man is the standard method of advancement... :}

[alexWCD]

Every one here is being pretty negative to be honest, however I do agree with remoak. If he is sitting on the fence, tell him to go to his local and get a trial flight. Air NZ has start a flight training program, however IT IS NOT A CADETSHIP, what you do is go to one of the 5 FTO (Massey, Hawkes Bay, Nelson, Christchurch, southern wings) and you do your training there, then you are given the chance to do an airline integration course, C-Cat rating and one other thing which I have forgotten. I don't know how but somehow you end up in an interview with Air NZ and you are eartagged for the recruit to group thing. I may be a little off on this info (flak jacket on), but the majority of it is correct. There are other ways to get a job in NZ, aero club c-cats, earn your hours and head to asia. Or there is the Jetstar cadetship at ctc. However this has been beaten to a pulp on PPrune so just search it and you'll sort it. I've just been through the CTC selection process for the wings program, and they said that Jetstar guarantee a command on the 320 within 6 years, can't see how they make that but im not jetstar.
Anyway here endith the rant

[zkjaws]

Remoak has hit the nail on the head, but I would suggest doing the training in NZ.

Select a NZ training school that offers the JAA/EASA airline pilot program and do as much of the training as possible in NZ, the cost of flying is a lot cheaper. If possible tack on the NZ Frozen ATPL to the JAA/EASA Frozen ATPL. Don't forget to make maximum use of the student loan scheme.

With the necessary pieces of paper in his hot little hand, head to Europe and get a job with Rynair, etc. Sitting in the right hand seat of a B738 with 300 hrs is a way better way of building hours. Then when he has enough hours and is sick of the Michael O'Leary types head to the UAE to play on the really cool aeroplanes.

This is seems to be the norm up here, so if he can, jump on the bandwagon.

[The Green Goblin]

Tell him to get a student loan, get his CPL, come to Australia, buy as many endorsements as he can with all the fruit (Baron, PA31, PN68, C310, and C402) then the Australian company gets a free Pilot. It helps GA in keeping their costs down so they can reinvest in their modern fleets.

Don't worry though, he'll have his student loan money to survive off so he can work for free to build some hours. Many of his brethren have been using this trick for years. He can make a couple of bucks doing back charters if the student loan money is getting a little low. Works especially well in Alice :ok: How else do those Kiwis seem to afford $300 RM Williams boots, serengetti sunglasses, Bose headsets and work for free?

After a couple of years he can then buy an A320 endorsement, work for Jitstar in NZ and screw the NZ Pilots for the final slam dunk. It's okay though, he hates them anyway. If they didn't steal his job in NZ by sweeping hangers and washing aeroplanes for 2 years for free before they got a flying job, he wouldn't have been forced to move to the dessert in OZ to get a flying job.

If that fails, he can offer his services at half price to secure a lucrative contract in Asia. Just make sure he buys another endorsement to make himself more employable. A dual A320/737 type endorsement would be the ticket.

Seems to be the NZ way. Thats why Kiwis are so respected on the expat market. They are always happy to help out the employers when they can.

Biiiched as :D

[glekichi]

Ahh Goblin. I know its mostly a wind up, but get your facts straight!

Its been at least 6 years, and possibly quite a few more, since the student loan money ended up in the student's bank account, bar the NZ$150 a week living costs that one can borrow while studying full time. i.e not in Australia.

I know of quite a few Kiwis that have come to Australia, none of which bought any rating of any kind.

Also, the majority of these Kiwis are actually AFAP members and are working for better conditions for everyone, unlike the local freshly minted CPLs that will work for peanuts. (Not that we havent all been there)

Don't forget, its the Australian companies in NZ that are pushing the terms and conditions there downwards, not the other way around. So, if a few want to leave for the better pay in OZ, then why not eh?

[RM Williams, serengetti? If thats true it sounds like the NT could be a bit of a haven for sausage factory CPL graduate Kiwis that have not actually ever worked in NZ - probably for a very good reason!]

[c100driver]

If possible tack on the NZ Frozen ATPL to the JAA/EASA Frozen ATPL.

Jaws please show where the NZ rules cover a Frozen ATPL?

What do you think a frozen NZ ATPL is?

I have never managed to find any such thing in Part 61!

You either hold an ATPL or you don't!

[zkjaws]

OOPS - I seem to have hit a nerve:=

Haven't read Part 61 for awhile, so aren't up with the current terminology.
Too busy reading JAR material to get a JAR/EASA CPL & Instructor rating here, as my NZ ones aren't worth a pinch of rubber dog sh*t from Hong Kong up here.:ugh:

Was referring to the training that all the big schools offer - airline qualifications but not the hours. Call it what you like, but IMHO if you can get multiple countries to recognise your training all at once, then that's well an good. Now if only there was an international civil aviation organisation that set standards that EVERYONE recognised. :)

[waren9]

Alex

Jetstar DO NOT guarantee a command or anything else for that matter after six years.

CTC are bull****ting if thats the case.

As everyone knows, or should very quickly learn- there are no promises in aviation.

[27/09]

Waren9, C100driver, glekichi, you guys are spot on, some of the other comments are wide of the mark or just wind ups.

[big buddah]

Disregard everything AlexWCD has stated.
Avoid everything to do with the Air NZ Scheme it's got future shafting written all over it! It's all about Air NZ not you.

Stay away from everything to do CTC they are a bull****ting marketing department. They suck up to Jetstar to make they're fat little profit on your training.

Stay away from the Jetstar Cadet scheme, it is a slave labour scheme in disguise. A middle management accounting bonus project. Making some fat cats look good to the board? At your expense long term. You're a fool if you go anywhere near it!

I highly recommend becoming a dodgy accountant or what ever and buy your self a toy and fly in the weekends......but if not...

Go to a good old flying school get a student loan if you can (it's interest free!) do all the fun flying go fly around Mt Cook, Queenstown, Milford Sound etc enjoy your training. Try even getting a job down there for a season or two? do some skydiving, banner glider towing. It will better for you long term skill wise and respect.

Stay away from flying with C cats that have had no exposure to the outside of their flying school.

Then get over seas as quick as possible! avoid the whole Eagle, Air Nelson scene. There is a huge wide world out there great adventures, better machines and more money than NZ.

It takes a big step to leave the safety of little old NZ but once you do you will forever better off.

[mooondog]

The interest free component of the student loan scheme provided by Studylink only provides funding for the dual tuition - the solo hours are to be self funded (this applies as from now - following the budget announcements last month). Interest is charged on all the student loans anyway if the recipient scapas off over seas to get work (as many do). There are outfits in NZ (try flyNPT) that offer loans with cheap interest for the whole of the CPL training including the solo component - but the scheme is thru a bank (just like the old days):

[Duff]

Goblin.

Hell of a lot of Aussie accents flying one star in NZ mate. Perhaps you should have a chat with your countrymen about selling the profession down the road.

[remoak]

but I would suggest doing the training in NZ.

Good call, I forgot about CTC. Yes it is MUCH cheaper here than in the UK.

What do you think a frozen NZ ATPL is?

I have never managed to find any such thing in Part 61!

Yeah well we all know what it is... an ATPL without the final bit. In the UK, where enlightenment rules, it is simply a matter of experience. In NZ, where being backward in aviation matters has been raised to the level of an art form, you have to go and do a flight test. Even the Ozmates aren't that stupid.

So there really isn't any point in pedantry...

[c100driver]

It is worse than that in that if you don't get a job flying a CAA "approved type i.e. turbine or pressurised " to do the flight test in you are stuffed as your exams run out and you need to sit them all again! Total crock

The NZ ATPL subjects expire so how can it be frozen?

Anyway total agreement with Remoak on this one

If he can get a Euro passport, tell him to get over there and do a JAA/EASA licence. Far more jobs on much better machinery, with far bigger airlines than Air NZ which is pretty puny in international terms. Better money too.

If he has to stay in NZ, warn him that NZ aviation is a parochial backwater, and that bending over and taking it like a man is the standard method of advancement...

If you can get out and work in the EU then go for it!

[remoak]

They expire in Euroland too... unless it has changed since I sat them ;)

[zkjaws]

c100driver - see you did come around to my way of thinking

Get the subject and head to Europe to get the hours on a B738 or A321 as soon as possible before the subjects expire. Much better than them going to waste after you have spent time as a C Cat or Jump Pilot.

And the only hitch is you have to work for Michael O'Leary types.

[alexWCD]

Before everyone starts going on about 'getting a student loan! Its interest free!', by the start of next year it won't be.

They have completely changed it, they are no longer funding full pilot student loans, they will only pay for dual hours. They have also put a cap on the loan for $38000. So for the NMIT course you are going to have to put in $42000 (NMIT course is $80000) of your own money.

I would recommend going round as many clubs, FTO's and anyone you can find and see what the offer and look up info. If you can, go for one this year, because from next year it's going to get quite hard.

Also, I never promoted the Jetstar program, I know its a s**t contract, but if you just want to fly a jet and build up hours its the way to go. Although sadly you might have the dreaded SJS syndrome.:ooh:

[27/09]

alexWCD
So for the NMIT course you are going to have to put in $42000 (NMIT course is $80000) of your own money.



Not exactly correct. The course fee depends on which provider you enroll with on the NMIT course, it might be $80,000 for one but not necessarily for all providers.

I've just been through the CTC selection process for the wings program, and they said that Jetstar guarantee a command on the 320 within 6 years, can't see how they make that but im not jetstar.


Smart lad with your comment at the end. No one else can see how they could guarantee that either, especially since the cadets will not have the requirements for an ATPL. More CTC spin I suspect. The more I hear about these guys the more I'm convinced prospective CPL's should avoid them.

big buddah

I agree with everything you wrote except for

Then get over seas as quick as possible! avoid the whole Eagle, Air Nelson scene. There is a huge wide world out there great adventures, better machines and more money than NZ.

It takes a big step to leave the safety of little old NZ but once you do you will forever better off.

Going overseas is a good option, BUT, it's not for everybody, and to suggest it's the only good option is over stating the case.

I know people who have gone overseas and stayed there and been very happy, but also some who've not been happy and come back, some who've gone overseas to get a start then come home and been very happy and then those who've stayed in NZ and been very happy.

Horses for courses.

[remoak]

27/09

What you are saying is correct, obviously "horses for courses" is a truism. However the fact remains the opportunities overseas are several orders of magnitude better than those back here in NZ. Personally, having done it, I would say that you would be crazy not to if you have the opportunity. Sure, you may come back after a few years, but you will be a far more rounded pilot, especially if you have been flying into the larger Euro hubs. I found that it was like opening a big book of wonders... until you have experienced it, it's hard to understand just how good the experience can be. NZ instructor with 700 hours to jet skipper in five years seems pretty good to me. Hard to imagine that happening here.

The only downside is that when you get back to parochial little NZ, you can be treated like a pariah by the local operators ("you didn't put in the hard yards", "you jumped the queue", IFR is harder in NZ and you won't be able to cope"... etc etc)

[alexWCD]

Going overseas is a very good idea, however like remoak says, once you leave it's quite hard to get back in (so I've been told).

However if you stayed in NZ with one of the Air NZ subsidies, move your way up the ranks, then say take LWOP (Leave without pay). You are able to go and work overseas for a period of time and still have your job in NZ.

This is what the Freedom guys did when they got pummeled, and a lot of the have stayed in the sandpit.

[27/09]

then say take LWOP (Leave without pay) You are able to go and work overseas for a period of time and still have your job in NZ.
From what I heard this only happened when Air Nz was a tad flush with pilots. Not likely to happen under normal circumstances for any company that I know of.

If you wanted to head of overseas to work there would be no problem with that, ...... provided you resigned first.