Microlight hours for an ALTP

[4g_handicap]

Hi guys,

Just a quick one. Can you count Microlight/ultralight hours towards total hours - in a professional capacity.

By way of example - my employer wants, say 5000 hours for command on a specific type of aircraft. I fall short by about 500 hours. I also happen to have 500 hours of microlight experience, not factored into my total time. Would it be acceptable to add the microlight hours to total?

Thanx
4g
:)

[Fizze]

If you are short of 500 h. To a command post don`t mention your ultralight hours, If you do your boss will never take you seriously, and you will be in the right seat for a very long time.

[4g_handicap]

Fizze,

Thanks, I tend to agree with you, and that is the reason that I have kept the hours in a seperate logbook and generally don't mention it. I can just hear them laughing when I apply at Emirates(maybe they will give me the job for having a sense of humour).

But then I sit and think to myself that it is valid experience - I learnt a lot during that period(300 hours of it is instruction), and I can't help wondering if I am not selling the experience short. If one were to compare it to, say, helicopter experience, it is of no direct value in the airline world, yet is is still experience. It is time spent in the air, at the controls, having to be every bit as aware of the elements as any other pilot.

One could also ask - where do you draw the line. One type of ultralight hours does not count, but on the same type that is certified as experimental, the hours do count?

One could also ask howcome the hours as a second officer on a long flight, where he carries no responsibility(and may even spend four of them asleep), count. (PS this is not a go at any SO's out there, simply a point)

Anyway, I know the perception is that the ultralight hours are of no value - I want to change that perception.

Hope to see lots more responses.

4g
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[scanscanscan]

I have seen some companies give credit for proven military taxi time to be added to airborne time, and other companies allow 50% of proven flight engineer time, and even proven flight observer time, all to be counted as flight time towards the required hours for a company command.
I feel you have no worries at all if you have logged yours in with your total flight time, as yours are genuine flight hours,and as valid as glider time has been towards total time, and even more valid than some of the other examples above.
Of course if you never kept a log book of your microlight hours, well you got the paperwork wrong, and your chief pilot could ask you to wait a bit longer!

If your company requires 5000 hours for a command, other companies require much less eg my company required 4000 however I was let lose with 2800 for my DC3/748 command,knowing what I do now I certainly would not have cleared me!
It all depends on the chief pilot, any union agreements, and availability of pilots for upgrade and how well and long he and the union reps had observed you within the company and their opinions of you.
If you were straight off the street then they would wanted 4000.
I would suggest you ask for an interview with your chief pilot, show him your combination of hours, and ask him if he can accept them and simply accept his proffesional decision.
One day you will be a chief pilot and relish similar wisdom of solomon decisions!
Would you turn you lose on the unsuspecting public just yet?
Would another year of apprenticeship be good life insurance for that one dark night in the future when you have all the trouble in the world in your lap,...Captain?

[4g_handicap]

SSS,

I do have 2000hrs command on HS748, F27 & Let410, so I am not too worried from that point of view.

I would be more than happy to accept a command on this aircraft - in fact I think that the 5000 hour limit is more a Union agreement than anything else(our company if full of politics).

I agree with you about the Chief Pilot making the decision. At this stage I have kept track of the hours in a separate logbook(I can also substantiate them by way of letters of service from previous employers). I would just like to approach the CP armed with some general perceptions of other professionals and not just my own opinions.

I am eager to hear what the guys have to say - I naturally want them to tell me how great the hours are, but I am also interested in hearing from those that don't agree, as any reasons they have will probably be the same grounds that the boss will have.

Thanx
4g
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[scanscanscan]

As you have command time already and on three nice types, and you have the micro time logged seperately, I think your case is sounding much better and you should certainly ask for that interview.
I certainly feel you are not guilty of any sharp practice at all and have a genuine right to be considered.
Out of interest the new command would be on what aircraft?
Have you been a fo on it?
Would you be having your new command on a fly by wire without any fo time on f/w and are you
familiar with the routes?

[4g_handicap]

SSS,

The a/c in question is an Embraer 135. It is a really nice simple aeroplane to fly - same weight as HS748 and 10 times easier to slow down.

At this stage flying on it as F/O - 250 hours on type(I would be happy to wait until 500 on type). The flying is all airlines stuff, so the routes are fairly easy - nice long runways, etc.

Aircraft is new to the company - they are putting guys straight into the left seat out of the left seat of a Jetstream41.

I think that once you pass about 3000hours, the aircraft type does not make a big difference. First command is really the tough step. Mine was on a Let410 at 2000 hours and I found the most difficult aspect was the having to make the tough commercial decisions.

I am certainly new to the company(6 months) - average time to command on the J41 is just under a year(with 2500 hrs). I have no prospect of moving onto J41(training bond, lock in and all), so I am of course keen to move on the jet.

In fact, going one step further - company is rapidly expanding into Africa, which is not the turf of the captains coming off the other fleet. They have spent all their time inside of SA. A portion of my experience is outside of SA, so I would say we are all on even ground.

I think it will be a while before I pluck up the courage to approach Chief Pilot, but it makes for an interesting debate.

I also think that there is a commonly miguided perception about microlights. I got into it purely because 10 years ago with a CPL and 600 hours there was no work for me. I often come across people that will shoot them down, when they have never been up for a ride in one.

In our country, the way our Rand is falling in relation to the USD. I think the even a PPL will be out of the reach of the average person, so I think microlights have a great future here in SA.

<img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Whitebug-speed]

Hi 4_G.

I've read some of you're posts and gather that you're currently an FO on the EMB 135, just recently started with Link, from possibly Executive Aerospace or Airquarius.

Anyway just some info on SA CAA regs, which can be found on crediting of flight time at
<a href="http://www.caa.co.za/docs/regulations/part61-1.pdf" target="_blank">web page</a>

In essence what it says is " the holder of a microlight aeroplane, glider or gyroplane pilot licence shall be entitled to be credited with not more than 25 hours flight time acquired in a microlight aeroplane, glider or gyroplane towards the total flight time prescribed for the issuing of a higher grade pilot licence (aeroplane).

So 4_G what this means to a chief-pilot would be probably to give you only 25 hours towards your total for command on the EMB 135. Which I think is fair. Similarly chopper hours count 1/2 of fixed wing hours.
True that those 500 hours were spent in the air, but one can't go around grouping all time spent in the air in the same class/category , otherwise there'd be chaos with guys having 2000 hours on paragliders asking for command on 737's ! :) Get my drift.

Anyway good-luck.
Hope to see you in the pub some time.Cheers <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[4g_handicap]

White SB,

Thanks, yup you are quite right where I come from(EA).

While I do tend to agree with you on the Para/737 example, I think each case should be considered on merit.

I have to differ with you on the regs though. As you said, 25 hours can be credited towards a higher licence, the same way as a S/O on 747 can credit 1/2 of his flying time. The S/O will still log all his flight time, he will only be able to use 1/2 of it when he applies for his ALTP.


Maybe we will meet in the pub - when we get enough pruners here in SA, maybe we can also have a BASH.

Regards
4g :)