F-35 UK Ops

[Strangelove PhD]

Just thinking about the decisions the UK Government made in the Strategic Defense and Security Review (SDSR) to purchase the F-35c rather than the originally planned for F-35b.
If this is the case, why are there so many Royal Navy folks still involved in the program?
Will the Royal Navy (FAA) operate the conventional variant too?
Can the F-35c operate off the new (UK) carriers?
Having seen the heartache caused by the loss of the Nimrod to the RAF, one wonders that, if additional responsibility is being given to the Royal Navy to cover the loss of the Nimrod, should this workload be offset by giving the responsibility of the new f-35c solely to the RAF…. Thoughts?

[ATCAdam]

The C is a carrier variant with a stronger landing gear intended for carrier landings as well as larger foldable wings.

Both services will operate the F-35c with the FAA operating from naval platforms. The new carriers have had their designs changed to incorporate an arrestor wire for that very purpose.

While I can't comment on workload I think it is practical to have Navy personnel working on the project considering most will be ex-Harrier, who have experience of fixed wing carrier based ops and who also now have a lot of time on their hands with no airframe to fly.

Should be interesting to see how the skill of carrier landing will be picked up; after a 4 year hiatus of all fixed wing activity. I can only imagine with a lot of sim time.

[jamesdevice]

but the F-35 is going to get cancelled as unaffordable anyway - so the UK government need to come up with another decision

[Willard Whyte]

One imagines the USN/MC might find '35's bill hard to swallow.

Plenty of alternatives, perhaps not as capable on paper, but in the air ...?

[dead_pan]

Should be interesting to see how the skill of carrier landing will be picked up; after a 4 year hiatus of all fixed wing activity


Exchanges all around, methinks. I know of one RN pilot shortly to join with the USN to fly Super Hornets. Wouldn't be surprised to see some on Charles de Gaulle in the near future.

[lj101]

The RN are quietly negotiating USN F18 slots with a mixture of ex RN Harrier pilots and some RN youngsters straight out of flying training.........some already there, some just told the good news that they have been chosen and on their way soon. Interesting times.

[Tourist]

Strangelove

My thought is:-

Why don't you read the huge number of threads/posts about this topic before starting another thread with questions showing your total lack of knowledge of the subject?

Sheer laziness?

[ATCAdam]

I knew there were some pilots on exchange with the USN but didn't know if that was ongoing and intended as a long term solution, interesting. Surely strengthens the F-18 argument if there are already pilots trained on type.

[dead_pan]

Must be a factor in the RN's thinking. I'm sure many in the senior service would happily trade down in order to have something pointy to fly from their two carriers when they are commissioned.

[hoodie]

Surely strengthens the F-18 argument

Apart from "Shiney thing, want that NOW!", what F-18 argument?

[dat581]

It's proven, in production, and in service with the UK's two closest allies. Australia got a hold their 24 quickly with a minimum of fuss and no delays or in service headaches so the RN could do the same and have the expericence of an air force that operates very much like the RAF/USAF/USN on hand for easy exchange postings. Also the reason governments like the most: it's cheaper.


Edited once to fix rubbish spelling.

[SASless]

I'm sure many in the senior service would happily trade down in order to have something pointy to fly from their two carriers when they are commissioned.

Are you saying there is going to be two Carriers commissioned and no pointy nosed things in the inventory to equip them?

[Just This Once...]

Where are we getting the millions it takes to train a RN FJ pilot without them doing a day of UK RoS in return?

Guess we have more money sloshing around than we thought; which is nice.

[FODPlod]

Where are we getting the millions it takes to train a RN FJ pilot without them doing a day of UK RoS in return?

Guess we have more money sloshing around than we thought; which is nice.

Where is your evidence for this? With the wholesale redundancy of veteran Harrier and other FJ pilots, isn't it sensible to grow and sustain a core of younger CATOBAR-experienced pilots (and associated flightdeck/hangar/flyco personnel) to meet requirements?

Here are some tasters of the sort of carrier 'nil diversion' ops these guys are being equipped to deal with: YouTube - ‪PBS Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 1.mp4‬‏
YouTube - ‪PBS Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 2.mp4‬‏

[Just This Once...]

Thanks for the link 'Plod.:rolleyes:

Kinda makes the point that these chaps we are sending to the USA cannot do anything for the UK right now. Open your eyes princess and you will see that we haven't enough shekels left to to keep the GR4 Forced manned and equipped to run 2 ops and have chopped a couple of sqns within days of dropping ordinance at the behest of the UK. Meanwhile in a sunshine tour elsewhere...

These fine chaps selected for the F/A-18 playtime do not have to do any additional RoS on their return beyond that to amortize the F/A-18 slot. They can simply enjoy their time abroad and leave not long after they return. Don't think for a minute that all these chaps will fly a UK FJ again as we have no ability to forcibly keep them in until the UK F-35C enters service. Some may stay but others - well go and chat to them and find out!

NB the RAF dumped those in the trg system when they had no cockpit to go to.

[Tourist]

Just this once.

Yes I agree, because what could possibly persuade a navy pilot to stay in, when all they have to look forward to is flying off brand new british carriers in a shiney new 5th gen aircraft, as the Sqn grown-ups with almost guaranteed promotion and Boss/wings/carrier captain jobs awaiting them?

Sounds sh1t eh?

Especially when the civvy world is calling them with unlimited oportunities to fly a regional turboprop for cr@p cash once they have done all their licenses with no exemptions.

Sounds sh1t eh?

[FODPlod]

Just This Once... Your reply reveals remarkable naivity with regard to the introduction of complex new pieces of kit into service. While working with the world's benchmark CATOBAR operator, the FAA pilots (and other personnel) are gaining vital 'hands on' subject matter expertise which is already being invested in restoring the RN's capability. If you believe their contribution is limited to flying an aircraft, then you are sorely mistaken. So open your eyes "Princess" and try not to let your prejudices blind you to the facts quite so much in future. :=

[Justanopinion]

Just this once

All the selections of people to go to fly F18 have been done with a view to filling F35 slots in the future and so ensuring peoples timing/careers fit in with that.

FOD Plod

Nobody is flying CATOBAR at the moment as it has only just been tested.

[FODPlod]

Justanopinion - CATOBAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATOBAR) (i.e. 'Cat & Trap') is employed for all F/A-18 carrier launches and recoveries the FAA pilots are experiencing with the USN. Even the RN used it until the old Ark Royal was decommissioned:

Are you thinking of EMALS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_Aircraft_Launch_System)?

[Justanopinion]

FODPLOD

Mybad!! Apologies

[glad rag]

isn't it sensible to grow and sustain a core of younger CATOBAR-experienced pilots

And so as ships/units/stations dissapear for ever just HOW do you justify filling posts that actually are totally non effective???

[Justanopinion]

And so as ships/units/stations dissapear for ever just HOW do you justify filling posts that actually are totally non effective??

F35 C, conventional carrier variant.

2 Conventional sized carriers being built.

Experience required to be built.

Fleet Air Arm training Naval pilots to fly off Carriers in the future.

Crazy

[Tourist]

glad rag

Do I understand correctly that you judge persons serving with another service "totally non effective"?

If so, is that because they are just practicing to do their role rather than doing it for their service?

Is it important where they practice and gain experience?

[jamesdevice]

whats the point in the training? By the time the carriers are ready, the X-47B will be weaponized and you won't need pilots

[Tourist]

James

Again you demonstrate your ignorance.
That time is certainly coming, but not yet.

[TurbineTooHot]

Crikey moses I feel faint....... I've found myself agreeing with Tourist twice in as many minutes........

We've commited to F35C, and cat and trap. It is imperative to gain and sustain a suitably size pool of knowledge and experience of what is one of the hardest disciplines in Fixed Wing aviation.

The guys over with the USN won't necessarily be just line pilots, but staff the ship as well in the Airboss role etc.

Good work by the FAA to sort this in challenging times.

I do wonder about the validity of FWS in the current financial climate though.....

[Tourist]

I'm losing my touch.

Defending crabs, and holding opinions that others agree with.....

I'm holding on too tight. I've lost the edge....

etc etc