Ipad's on Alaskan to replace flight bag

[NorthernGoose]

Hi all,

Recently I read an article that laid out a plan by Alaskan airlines to have all of their pilots with an ipad by the end of june. Reasoning behind this was the saving of paper and fuel because of the weight and also the ease of updating as well as sourcing items. The article also made the claim that with the ipad it will reduce weight for pilots who are prone to back and neck problems because of 50 lbs flight bags.

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are? I think that implementing an ipad will definitely make it easier to navigate manuals as well as checklists also improving the updating capabilities. On the down side they are still not able to be operated during take off or landing, and I beg the question could they become more of a safety hazard due to all the non aviation related components on the ipad. If it operated similar to the book readers then I see less complications.

Cheers

[Broomstick Flier]

If I remember correctly, some airline in Europe decided to use the iPad as an EFB a couple of weeks ago .. was it in Denmark?

Why is not possible to use it during take-off and landing? If it is properly fixed, I can not see why not.

Cheers


PS. Give me a paper manual anyday, did not bought all this iPad frenzy...

[Spooky 2]

HIGHLY unlikely that they will not be operational during landing or takeoff. They will certify them operational and go from there.

[lilflyboy262]

And as I have heard happen numerous times, what happens when the pilot rolls his seat back and breaks the thing? It is very fragile.
Forget to charge it and the batteries die?
I think its fine to use if you have the paper versions as a back up behind you.

[JSCL]

They are allowed during takeoff and landing if in flight mode (which it has). I've had no problems on BA, Qantas, BMI or KLM doing that.

Definitely a good move forward. iPads are becoming a paper replacement in many industries now.

[Platinum206]

Lilflyboy,

One would assume/ hope that they would be docked to keep them both charged and securely in place! Agreed the paper backup would probably have to be there on the flightdeck at least during initial phase in anyway.

I also read the original article and I noted that every pilot will be issued with their own iPad rather than a set per aircraft. Good call I say, I wouldn't object to being issued with my own personal iPad! ;)

[SKYWRITER1]

Lots of companies using laptops. We carry 3 toughbooks per a/c incase of accidents etc. Not used for approach, more for manuals, t/o perf, landing perf. Personally I would love to have one, many of our crew already carry personal ones with all our manuals and also airway charts loaded. I'm not an ipad frenzy man myself, but they are brilliant for what we would use them for.

[aterpster]

JSCL:

Definitely a good move forward. iPads are becoming a paper replacement in many industries now.

I think they are great for the non-commercial pilot flying a Cessna 182, or the like. I recently acquired an iPad 2 and moved one of my JeppView allowances to it. It's good, but not as good as my 27 inch HP display on my desktop. And, not as good as the chart display I saw at Honeywell for the Falcon jets.

The problem being you have to scroll the chart to see all of it at a decent scale. Not so with the industrial strength built-in stuff.

Cesnna 182 flying, yes; Boeing 737; no.

[grounded27]

I think they are great for the non-commercial pilot flying a Cessna 182, or the like. I recently acquired an iPad 2 and moved one of my JeppView allowances to it. It's good, but not as good as my 27 inch HP display on my desktop. And, not as good as the chart display I saw at Honeywell for the Falcon jets.

The problem being you have to scroll the chart to see all of it at a decent scale. Not so with the industrial strength built-in stuff.

Cesnna 182 flying, yes; Boeing 737; no.
The same could be said of the time it takes to dig out a chart then open it up, find what you are looking for then fold it so that it is not cluttering the cockpit. Over time one would develop the dexterity to scroll /zoom etc as it was an extension of their fingers. I completely disagree with you.


On another note I completely agree with an above post that a docking system that would charge the unit is is a necessity.

As far as phase of flight allowance your company makes that decision with the approval of your CAA. Usually an experimental aircraft for a few weeks with a fed on board to observe that the unit does not pose a threat to safety. Performed some test's of a component that emitted a cellular signal, we sat in the cockpit and went over all aircraft systems to prove there was no interference, it was about 3 days work.

[Graybeard]

Horizon has been working long and hard on integrating important info into the cockpit. You won't find a more heads up regional carrier. Yeh, they've been flying with HUD for years.

I know they had a contract with an EFB maker that went TU two years ago, and were integrating ground based Wx radar and other info into the EFB.

If Horizon does it, you can bet it's the right thing to do.

GB

[aterpster]

grounded72:
The same could be said of the time it takes to dig out a chart then open it up, find what you are looking for then fold it so that it is not cluttering the cockpit. Over time one would develop the dexterity to scroll /zoom etc as it was an extension of their fingers. I completely disagree with you.
I too would disagree with me if I were comparing the iPad to the paper chart. But, that is not what I said.:)

[ImbracableCrunk]

My lower back says this is the right move.

[Denti]

We use windows based EFBs class 1 for the last, hmm, 10 or so years (no paper charts since). Since we do not have a fixed docking station we are not allowed to use it below 1000ft AGL, it has to be stowed below that altitude. A docking station would have to withstand the same accelerations as a crew seat in a newly certified airplane (26g crashload? don't remember exactly). Additionally if it is to remain in the docking station at all times it has to be readable in all lighting conditions, which is not all that easy to certify. Our military standard rugged pen tablets weigh around 5kg each and the display does not conform to the lighting standard, not to mention to certify a docking station for that weight.

We are now slowly switching to a class 2 device which is fixed to the airplane and has to be certified to the above standards and additionally that it does not interfere with the airplane avionic system since it is connected to it (one way connection avionics -> EFB).

[Mansfield]

We have used an EFB program at my current employer for a while now, and the iPad has become a part of it. At present, we do not use it for approach charts and maps, so I still carry my Moline plates across the Atlantic, just in case...

However, I have all of the required manuals on the iPad. The company provides electronic updates, which I can download in a matter of seconds. If anything, one downside is that the absence of a page-by-page revision process tends to allow one to overlook what changes the revision contains...some degree of discipline is called for in that respect, particularly when you are updating the manuals quickly before a trip, etc.

That said, the access to the airplane manuals, MEL, Performance manual, etc. is incredibly easy and fast. With a word search if necessary, useful references can be found in seconds. The touchpad interface allows very rapid entry through a hyperlinked index of table of contents.

I also use mine for weather documentation; in a matter of about forty of fifty seconds, I can download a set of pre-bookmarked weather charts and reports for any trip I fly. I can then carry them on the iPad, which provides very good resolution and the ability to zoom in to areas of a chart you may be most interested in.

We are required to carry a spare power source. There are several that are acceptable. The EFB has to be turned off for takeoff and landing. As far as fragility, mine is in a leather case, like a leather bound book, and is unlikely to be damaged unintentionally. The QRH is required to be, and hopefully always will be, a hard copy...although I have it on the iPad for study purposes, because it is so ridiculously easy to install and read.

Now all we have to do is make sure that the cute little GPS based "find-my-iPad" locator feature cannot be accessed by management, or worse, crew scheduling...particularly on those "company-issued" versions...

[WhiskeyKilo]

Why not instead of iPads use a kindle-like device. I have heard you can get glare off an iPad but not off a kidle, plus I would think using buttons would be much simpler than having to scroll with your fingers (say through turbulence).

Also would their use have to be software-restricted. I don't want to hear, a few months down the track, that a incident has occurred because the pilots were trying to beat level 9 on Angry Birds :p

WK

[Denti]

Many of my colleagues do have their own personal iPad, as per now we do not have a company issued one although that is possible since we do have to get a personal IT device until next year (notebook, ipad etc). The iPad is a wonderful device for browsing your manuals and since our chart supplier (LIDO) is in the process of putting the complete route manual onto it which an be used with the company access even for charts as well. Since all manuals are only available electronically the iPad is actually one of the best forms to read them. The kindle reader sadly doesn't work well as the pdf files are not formatted for it.

I would really love to get the ipad as the personal companion and part of the official IT installation alongside the aircraft installed EFB.

[PT6A]

Denti,

The LIDO thing is worth the wait... I have it running on mine. Full route network + Lido General Part. They are going to also put the enroute charts on.

But for the time being I have them in goodreader... Works a treat.

A few airlines are using them and certified to use them instead of paper charts.

PT6A

[Denti]

We use the full LIDO eRoutemanual for quite a few years now on our aircraft installed EFBs, full GEN (including Company GEN), airport and enroute charts (low and high level, all charts interactive on the class II EFB).

The big point would be to have the ability to preview charts outside the aircraft if its available on the iPad. We do have access over the internet to the full route manual, but that is only online via a web site which can be very expensive abroad.

[PT6A]

Denti,

Once the full version of the Ipad public app is available... Then your ipad will do exactly that.

What hardware are you using for yor EFB's I would be very curious to know.

PT6A

[Denti]

We use the predecessor of this (http://www.drs-ts.com/walkabout/products_specs_hh.html) unit. Slightly different case and back then according to some us military regs designed. Quite heavy and not really nice to have it flying around in the cockpit during turbulences. Can't say anything about the class II device though, only a few test airplanes have it yet and i haven't flown it.

[FlightPathOBN]

While the iPad is new, and a step above, the processor/memory is very limited, as are connections/ connectivity. The android based tablets act as a flash connection, so anywhere....and can be a direct connect with on-board systems.

It may be better to wait for the android app on a more powerful and useful tablet.

[galaxy flyer]

Not totally true, but Jepp isn't putting it's charts on anything but iPads. The iPad, especially v.2 is pretty darned good, in any case. I use it for charts, all manuals and company materials, in the plane and out with great effectiveness. Were it not for company email and the limitation of not being wired, it would replace the laptop.

GF

[FlightPathOBN]

Concur...but as with everything else, it may be better to wait.