Cirrus pilot blacks out, wife saves situation

[mary meagher]

Here I am in Texas! just heard on the news that the pilot of a Cirrus blacked out at altitude. His wife, though also suffering from apoxia, radioed for help, stayed calm while ATC tried to find nearby help acquainted with the Cirrus systems; they were apparently describing the parachute deployment option when the pilot came round somewhat, and after grumping that he didn't need any help, managed to safely land the plane. Another example, guys, that should inspire you to sign up (and pay for!) your lady to be able to tackle the basics to get the situation under control and back on the ground in one piece.......

[Fuji Abound]

Close the throttle, wait for the airspeed to decay, pull the chute, pull the red lever, turn the master off. :D

Its not hard. ;)

(I know, I know it helps to keep it level and unlatch the doors and one or two other minor details).

[sycamore]

If you can afford a Cirrus,and want to fly high,you can afford oxygen...otherwise don`t be a f$%£^&g pratt....

[172driver]

More info here (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/27/us-colorado-plane-idUSTRE74Q0RV20110527)

[AdamFrisch]

I hate to throw the book at you SoCal, but it's 30 minutes sustained above 12500ft, mandatory for crew at 14000ft and mandatory for all occupants at 15000ft. If you're at 13.999ft for 29mins or less, you're legal.

Not that it's good practice.

[Lasiorhinus]

Reports on US TV news are suggesting the pilot AND passenger were indeed on oxygen, but still suffered ill effects. Perhaps the oxygen system wasn't working properly.

[Fuji Abound]

Hmm did notice the mention of apoxia in the OP.

I wonder whether the wife realised it was (probably apoxia) rather than a heart attack or some other trauma.

Pulling the chute on a Cirrus is at least always an option but obviously not a good option if the pax thinks they can maintain control, the pilot will revive and land the aircraft.

That is an intersting call for any pax to make.

[007helicopter]

Here is the Live ATC from start to finish, Cirrus N591WA

http://avwxworkshops.com/etips/images/N591WA.mp3

[007helicopter]

The flight is alsp on FlightAware: N591WA (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N591WA).

[mary meagher]

That Flight Aware trace is certainly interesting. Most of the cruising was at 17,000 feet, and then the trace gets a bit squirrly. Having a look at the specs of the Cirrus, it appears to be powered by a turbo charged Continental engine, quite happy at 25,000' and a fair old speed as well. I couldn't discover if it was a pressurised cabin with a built in oxygen system...in our gliders we strap in an oxygen tank and use a mask or a canula......from 12,000 to 48,000', in wave.

All that technology, and a rocket fired parachute safety system as well, packed into a rather confined space, its a wonder there is enough room for two people to be comfortable on a long trip.

Can anyone say where it is built?

[007helicopter]

I couldn't discover if it was a pressurised cabin with a built in oxygen system...in our gliders we strap in an oxygen tank and use a mask or a canula

Mary not pressurised, it is a built in system with a mask or canula

All that technology, and a rocket fired parachute safety system as well, packed into a rather confined space, its a wonder there is enough room for two people to be comfortable on a long trip.


Extremely comfortable and roomy compared to the average 4 seater, I have done many long journeys of 1200 - 1500 miles in a day.

And they are made in Duluth, Minnesota Cirrus Aircraft (http://cirrusaircraft.com/)

It is irrelevant this was in a Cirrus and could and does happen in any aircraft, 10/10 to the Pilots wife that there was a happy outcome.

From the CIRRUS COPA web site the ATC controller is named as Charlie Rohrer and he was as cool as a cucumber and did a great job although continued to work other traffic and I thought might have declared an emergency and worked just this aircraft (although I have no idea how this works in practice and what options he had)

[IO540]

If you can afford a Cirrus,and want to fly high,you can afford oxygen...otherwise don`t be a f$%£^&g pratt....

I agree, but you would be amazed how many pilots work hard to avoid having to use oxygen. This is a hassle in European IFR where the decent routings start FL120 or higher.

In this case he may not have been using o2.

[India Four Two]

the ATC controller is named as Charlie Rohrer and he was as cool as a cucumber

I absolutely agree. Superb job by the controller, but it is surprising that he continued to work other traffic.

IO540, the tape confirms that he was on oxygen, but maybe it was not working correctly.

[Sir George Cayley]

Listening to the tape heart in mouth, the relief when 762 said they were down was overwhelming.

Training for non pilot partners used to be called Pinch Hitters - don't know why.

Is the guy OK? It's always a frustration when you don't hear how it ended.:confused:

Medals all round:ok:

SGC

[24Carrot]

Subsitute batter in something that is not quite cricket!

Pinch hitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinch_hitter)

[007helicopter]

If you can afford a Cirrus,and want to fly high,you can afford oxygen...otherwise don`t be a f$%£^&g pratt....


Sycamore you clearly did not have all the facts, he had oxygen. there was a fault, error or he was unwell, his wife saved the day, I dont think anyone was being a pratt and not correct that everyone who flys a Cirrus can afford the extra cost of Oxygen.

In that part of the world however it is fairly essential if you regularly cross the Rockies.

[BackPacker]

Coincidentally there was an article in Flyer last month (June 2011, page 38) about an upgrade to the Garmin Perspective ESP as fitted to the Cirrus. One of the newly introduced features is Hypoxia protection. When flying above a certain altitude you have to press buttons every so often (depending on altitude anywhere between 30 and 1 minute) otherwiss the system will (after a few obvious alerts) automatically descend to, eventually, 12,500 feet. Which should be sufficient to regain consciousness.

In this case it was the passenger who saved the day, but otherwise such a system could have prevented a fatal accident.

[IO540]

not correct that everyone who flys a Cirrus can afford the extra cost of Oxygen.

Would you like to elaborate on that?

Is somebody out there getting ripped off?

[sycamore]

007H, I apologise if I jumped the gun,but the report also said his wife was also affected; therefore a presumption on my part that it may not have been carried.However,hypoxia affects everybody in different ways,individual physiology,and if you can afford the aeroplane,you can afford the systems,to the extent of carrying an emergency bottle as well.
As a bit of drift, several years ago I was asked to do an airtest on a pressurised aircraft,including performance and height climbs,etc.During the ground checks,I managed to find one crumpled,and brittle plastic mask,and a non-working oxygen system.Yet the aircraft was regularly used,and with passengers in areas that had safety altitudes above FL150...!

[IO540]

Did this a/c have a built-on oxygen system, or was it a portable kit, perhaps with demand regulators?

I have flown up to 20000ft with my portable system, with cannulas, and above about 16k one needs to breathe fairly decisively. Above about 18k, more so. At 20k, very much so. Cannulas are not recommended above 18k anyway.

I haven't seen a report on this incident where it says how high he actually went but it is quite possible that he was not breathing properly e.g. using his mouth rather than his nose (if using cannulas). Also some people are affected much more than others; I once flew with one chap who was affected badly enough to not be able to read the altimeter after about 30 mins at FL120. Within seconds on o2 (he had earlier refused o2) he was fine. I use o2 anywhere above about 9k; at those low altitudes the flow rate is very low and it keeps one wide awake.

During the ground checks,I managed to find one crumpled,and brittle plastic mask,and a non-working oxygen system.Yet the aircraft was regularly used,and with passengers in areas that had safety altitudes above FL150...!

Why am I not suprised?

[mary meagher]

Glider pilots have known for some time that a good snort of O2 does wonders for a hangover.....

First time I used oxygen mask in a glider, found it quite difficult psychologically. As the last time I had to breath gas through a mask was during childbirth; every time I took a deep breath at 12,000 feet, couldn't help....half....expecting....to...go to.....slee...

[IO540]

As the last time I had to breath gas through a mask was during childbirth; every time I took a deep breath at 12,000 feet, couldn't help....half....expecting....to...go to.....slee...I am suprised you don't use a cannula. Some notes here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/oxygen/index.html). At 12k, they work superbly. A mask is used only with people who have a blocked nose (etc), with kids (too small to understand about breathing via the nose), above ~ 18k, and for emergency oxygen.

And if you get a decent demand regulator (the MH one is the best (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/oxygen2/index.html)) then your o2 bottle will last about 10x longer than if you were feeding a straight mask.

I believe it was a 2006 Model SR22. I think it was offered as an optional factory fit - so it could have been anything that was in use.
I think the wife indicated that she was having to 'hold the mask'.
From the recording, it as indicated that they were at around 17000 - Eastbound so that would be right (IFR). 17k is a total non-event, especially with a mask. On one flight, my girlfriend had a blocked nose so we pulled out the mask, and her blood o2 was about 99% - at FL180. I can never get that with a cannula; at 18k I would be pushing to achieve ~93%.

So, my bet would be on a total ignorance of the system and of operating procedures, or maybe a system fault (1st stage regulator failure perhaps, or just running out of gas), together with them not having a blood oxygen tester (which would be really stupid).

Let's face it, they don't exactly teach anything as practically relevant as this on a PPL or a PPL/IR (JAA or FAA).

[A and C]

I agree with those who think that one of the factors that contributed to this inccident was lack of or poor training, the trouble with Hypoxia is that it can induce a feeling of well being and so the victim may well be totaly uaware that he has a problem. This was likely to have been the situation in the Cirrus, the guy had the O2 fitted but it had failed to work but He did not pick up the problem.

With the correct trainning you can pick up the problems before inccpacitation sets in, light headedness and a sence of well being are good examples, also feeling sleepy and the reduction of night vision can be clues.

The last two symptoms sent me for the O2 mask one night when we had a cabin compressor failure (the other compressor was trying to keep up but the cabin altitude was slowly rising and topped out at about 13,000ft).

I was the Flight Engineer on the aircraft and having done the drills for the compressor failure I was monitoring the cabin altitude over the next 30 min the cabin altitude climbed to about 12,000ft cabin altitude (due to the MSA we could not go lower at the time). I noticed that I started feeling sleepy and it seemed very dark outside, it was a good VFR night but there was only a few big towns to be seen. At this point I went on to the O2 and within 1-2 min the sleepy feeling had gone and the lights of small towns and individual houses could be seen.

It was my training that helped me to pick up this subtle inccapasitation before it became apparent to the other two guys on the flight deck, I guess the moral of the story is that if you are going high enough to need O2 ge some training in the effects and symptoms of hypoxia, it might just save your life.

[mary meagher]

IO540, gliders climbing in wave do not remain at 12,000. During my 9 attempts to gain diamond heights at Deeside gliding club in Scotland, ( once I had figured out that the regulator had to be set at either 2 or 4, not halfway inbetwen the two) I got to 14,000 feet, l7,000 feet, 19,000 feet and eventually rang the bell at 20,300 feet agl.

Safety procedures involved taking the mask off from time to time and responding
rationally to Deeside ground making kind enquiries as to the state of my euphoria.

[IO540]

You can get masks with mikes in them... bit more pricey unfortunately. I have the Mountain High version, which works but makes one sounds like Darth Vader.

[007helicopter]

Sycamore - no problem


Quote:
not correct that everyone who flys a Cirrus can afford the extra cost of Oxygen.
Would you like to elaborate on that?


10540 - all I meant to point out was that not all Cirrus owners can automatically afford installed or portable oxygen systems.

Clearly in this case the aircraft had oxygen and we can make bets on what it was but we dont know, I understand the Pilot was experienced and capable.

There have been several situations I am aware of where very experienced and competent pilots have perished due to Hypoxia who were well trained and respected. It is an additional risk of flying at Altitude that could catch anyone out.

[IO540]

all I meant to point out was that not all Cirrus owners can automatically afford installed or portable oxygen systemsInstalled, I can see it is expensive.

But portable ones are a few hundred bucks, and despite being less tidy they are just as good. Makes no sense to fly without.

[Fuji Abound]

IO540

I agree, I cant imagine that you would be flying a Cirrus unless you could also afford oxygen.

Whether you would routinely want to use oxygen is another question - mission profile and all that of course comes into the equation.

Unfortunately high end GA is not cheap (although everything is relative I guess) but the cost of oxygen is really not going to amount to more than a few hours flying I am afraid.

[007helicopter]

True, the portable systems are very afforadable, the point I was not making very well is that some Cirrus renters and owners are flying on a tighter budget but I accept the point entirely.

[007helicopter]

Santa Cruz native helps distressed couple land plane - Santa Cruz Sentinel (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_18202696)

Interesting follow up article with lost of detail from the chase plane pilot who had 19 passengers on board and assisted the wife with how to set the autopilot

[mary meagher]

In the UK, the Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators gives an award, I believe, to a person or persons who have signally contributed to the good outcome of a bad situation in aviation.

The excellent writeup in the paper referred to in the last post would suggest that both Ian Norris, the Great Lakes Airline pilot who helped to guide the Cirrus to a safe arrival, and Charlie Rohrer, the Denver ATC who recognised the symptoms of apoxia and sent out a call for assistance, would be worthy recipients of such an award.

[007helicopter]

Mary, I agree, there is a suggestion that they will be invited to the annual COPA (Cirrus Owners & Pilots Association) gathering which this year is in Colorado Springs in August and receive recognition if not an award.

:D