EK 777 Captains to the A380?

[Jumeirah James]

I've just heard a rumour that 777 'local' Captains will now be transferring to the A380? Any truth in this rumour please?

Thanks

JJ

[harry the cod]

Maybe their PPC datum is before all the non locals above them on the seniority? :rolleyes:


In answer to your question, no, I haven't heard and it's 99% unlikely.


Harry

[fatbus]

100% likely and happening real soon

[Wizofoz]

Yep. Retention of the A330s that WERE supposed to be leaving has meant they can't spare enough Airbus guys.

Didn't hear anything about it only being locals.

[GoreTex]

but isn't the 777 way better than any airbus?

[what_goes_up]

but isn't the 777 way better than any airbus?
Nooooooooooooooooooooo.......

[EK380]

All correct!

And first direct entry A380 F/O course starts in July...

More 2 come.

[Jumeirah James]

Thanks Gents. I heard the 'datum' Captains course was cancelled and the 'wasta's' were coming over. Seems pretty solid rumour / fact.

[harry the cod]

To avoid confusion. Yes, heard from usual good source that Boeing guys may well be coming over. Not heard that it's 'locals' first. If so, perhaps those being passed over and peeved off should contact AS.

Or they could take it up with their respective chief pilots :E

Harry

[halas]

9 777 TRI's with 330 experience moving to the 380

halas

[donpizmeov]

Have heard that 16 Boeing TRIs plus 1TRE, all with Bus experience are being sent to the 330. Seems no takers for training on the bus but plenty on the Boeing. Non training 777 skippers to be offered 380 in seniority as was always planned.

The Don

[fourgolds]

So whats the rumour. Are the said 777 Trainers going to the 330 or the 380 ? or both ?

[Craggenmore]

And first direct entry A380 F/O course starts in July

What are the requirements for the above?

[Payscale]

I dont think it TRIs coming across, but line captains with prior Airbus experience. The training machine on the A330 is already at max EGT. Many new TRI aircraft only coming up.

[canadansk]

It was confirmed today! 8 to 10 line captains off the B777 coming over later this year due to the fact that the A330 cannot afford to lose any more Captains at the moment. :hmm:

[Dropp the Pilot]

To which site should I proceed in order to "confire" something?

[pool]

The training machine on the A330 is already at max EGT

Oh how we'd wish that came true .... oh, you're talking about temperature.
Silly me.

[eagerbeaver1]

I am due to join in the next few months and I have asked if I am able to join on the A380. The reply I got was possibly...

I have no airbus time. Not sure how that makes some of you chaps feel? Do you feel like I am potentially taking your seat (so-to-speak)?

[springbok449]

Apparently you need a certain amount of hours on 4 engine airbus in order to qualify for direct entry 380...

[fatbus]

4 engine is not a requirement to go to the 380. the 777 pilots coming over do not necessarily have airbus time.

[eagerbeaver1]

Fair. However I am excited about the prospect of suffixing "super". :E

[a747jb]

The FCI which locks all 330 guys with less than 2500 hours of 55 tonne time off the 380 is also very clear on the experience needed to come in as a direct entry FO onto the 380. I don't recall the exact times, but it clearly states that you must have a large amount of 330/340 or equivalent widebody experience to join onto the 380. If they choose to ignore this requirement and still abide by the 2500 hours for EK FO's, that would be classic EK. However, in terms of cost, I would imagine its all around cheaper for them to take a guy current on the 330 at EK regardless of 55 tonne time to the 380 and back fill the 330 with new hires than it is to pay the insurance bill for taking somebody brand new with no widebody experience onto the 380 directly. That is just my guess, but rest assured, EK will go the cheapest route. Since the 2500 hours 55 tonne rule is an arbitrary number set by the hire ups, I think it will be the first to go before the requirement for new joiner widebody experience. As for captains, well, I would say that both fleets are equally short, so who knows. Just my 2 cents, which with the fall of the dollar is equivalent to, well, f..kall now days.

[White Knight]

hire ups

Seriously? And I had been wondering why so many so called native speakers only got an ICAO Level 5. But not now!:ugh::ugh:

[40&80]

Does the insurance company today actually now get involved to the extent they now dictate the experience level of the incoming pilots to the EK380?
I ask because when concerns on drastically falling pilot experience levels were raised to insurance companies in my last airline.... the answer was "We set the premium levels based on the past record of your airline"
So I thought "At least they have been warned"...sadly they got their accident within two years and people died.
Then the premiums were increased as promised.

[White Knight]

Ex SQ or SV 40&80?

[eagerbeaver1]

I don't believe an airlines' insurance premium moves that much on the experience level of its commanders. I was promoted with 2900 hrs tt along with many others (B737-800). If the ocst was linear then it would be utterly prohibitive to promote until you hit a target set by a person(s) in an office with a computer who thinks they have correctly assessed the risk. Which could be anywhere, and where on earth would they get the data to compute and how would they do it?

Although, maybe they can and do.

[springbok449]

Fatbus,

I did not mention anything about people transferring from the 777 within EK, I was answering a previously asked question about Direct Entry onto the 380...

Now the difference between what EK would like (ie 4 engine Airbus time) and what they will get is another debate...

[a747jb]

white night,

wow, you got me there man. As you can see, I definitely did not proof read :ugh:

Anyways, the point of my post was that EK will do what works for them. I guess I was just thinking insurance would matter, but as you all pointed out, probably doesn't. In the end, its whatever they want to do and that most certainly revolves around whats cheapest.

[777Goose]

Calls are now being made in order of seniority as I was just called by Sally. Date is in near beginning of my Datum and no FBW experience so seems strictly on seniority. First course of 4 is in July with two courses to follow but no dates as yet. Me, I think I'll wait as I'm still holding out false hope for the 748.:bored:

[fatbus]

goose with 90 coming there will be a steady flow from the 777, enjoy the 777 while it is still doing the nice trips, they want 120 but dxb can only handle 90

[sheikmyarse]

You look just like a bunch of kids...

" My plane is bigger then yours..."
" Mine is faster..."
" Maaaamaa,,, I want to fly that plane...."
" Maamma why he is flying that plane and I 'm flying just this..?? Uaaaahhh!!"

Screwing you is so easy..like firing on the Red Cross...

[twieke]

I think it's outrageous. All this because manpower management couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery if they had to. Every airbus capt should write JA a nice letter on how they feel about this.

T

[twieke]

If everybody thinks like you,....you're right nothing ever happens.....

[kiwi]

Twiek, why are you outraged that people who have the appropriate seniorty and service on type are permitted to change to another type as per the company's fleet transfer policey?
I think it should have been offered to these guys earlier!

[donpizmeov]

And it should come as no surprise, it was always planned to open it up after aircraft 15.

[VLS with ice]

Because AB guys are sick'n tired of doing night TRV,AMD,MAA,DOH,MCT etc including turns to ATH,NBO,DAC, CCU, while 777 get the good flights.
Fair enough, 777 pilots do a lot of hours, but on AB fleet does lots of hours with minimum days off and it's starting to piss us off....

I assume that's why.

[Instant Hooligan]

So presumably the airbus f/o's waiting considerably longer to upgrade than their boeing counterparts can move across to the boeing to backfill the boeing upgrade slots. (This is SARCASM)

[donpizmeov]

I am not saying its right. But at least it is following some previously published guideline. Which is something of a surprise in EK. Should the fact that some junior Bus Capt is doing nite turns prevent a more senior Boeing capt from following a published procedure to fly the 380? It wasn't that many years ago that the bus had the good rosters. It swings and changes.
The command thing is a worry. However bus FOs were being held behind Boeing FOs when ALL the present FOs joined. So nothing has changed there. They joined knowing that other Bus FOs were being shafted command wise, and still thought this was the place to be, so I am sure they don't mind now. Would they? (I see your SARCASM, and raise you fact)

The Don

[twieke]

I know I know....aircraft 15 etc...

I was hoping to improve my lifestyle in the foreseeable future, couldn't give a toss on which aircraft btw. Now I'll be doing c:mad: airbus rosters for the un-forseeable future...

T

[Instant Hooligan]

Don,
You are correct that historically when the airbus f/o's joined, ( 5 years ago) who are now eligible for command, the airbus side of things was taking longer. A FACT which we all accepted.


You are incorrect though stating that this policy of 15 a/c and boeing transfer will be accepted was in place. No 380's were on property and as such no policy had been instituted.


Was it unwise of the F/O's joining at the time to think that EK would stick to the "continue your career" on the fleet you joined on. I guess so.


We should expect nothing from EK except the path of least expenditure.
Problem is, nobody knows what the whims of that will be when they join.


c'est la vie!!
Regards
I.H

[Payscale]

The B748 will also be open for 4 engine experienced Airbus guys without a comment from the Boeing pilots?
Obviously there is a feeling of career progression that is being delayes. So be it. The A380 is not such a good move anyway, if you plan to leave within the next 10 years. Most deliveries are for EK in that period.

[donpizmeov]

IH,

The 15 aircraft thing was in place when the 1st expression of interest request was made years ago.
Bus FOs were first shafted when DECs were hired. Boeing guys were being accellerated to command and Bus guys were held back. Ask White Knight and guys from his era. The reverse was true in the early 2000s, with Boeing guys being held back and Bus fellas being transferred to transition upgrades. New joiners on the Boeing now will be writing about how they are being shafted with respect command in 3 to 4 yrs time. Pilots aint smart people it seems!
EK don't care about your career. they will do whatever they want whenever they want. Has always been that way.
I am sorry this happened, but this has been discussed on these forums for a decade at least. New comers/joiners will always ask questions here, and when they get answers they don't like, they refer to EK pilots as being out of touch, and not knowing how bad it is etc etc and join anyway. Its not until the BSJS (Big Shiny Jet Syndrome) wears off, and they realise that their quality of life is heading south, and that living in the pit on FO salary is challenging.
Mate they can not attract pilots to one of the fastest growing airlines in the world. Now that takes a very special management style to pull off. Manning levels still are not where they need to be, and this when there have been no new deliveries for a year, and no short notice deliveries dumped on us for several years. Way to go man planning department.

Could it be things like this prove the OMA statement that "All emirates time will be considered hard time"?

Keep discovering

The Don

[Instant Hooligan]

"All emirates time will be considered hard time"? I hear that.....LoL:):)

Regards
I.H

[thrash]

The thing is Airbus guys have become very proficient at operating to some of the more testing ports on the sub-continent at odd times of the day.
Boeing guys are not used to this type of flying so overall it would be better for all concerned if Airbus guys just continue doing what they are used to doing and let the Boeing guys continue with the more mundane flying as found on that fleet and the 380.
Besides if Airbus guys stay on the bus it helps ensure no DECs make it onto the 380.
And as already correctly pointed out it was always planned this way so STOP CRYING!

[donpizmeov]

You might be onto something there Thrash. I have noticed that all the ASRs into ADD stopped once the Boeing was taken off it. I am sure that not all the Boeing drivers are cr@p though. :E

The Don

[CAYNINE]

The AB guys are now lining up at the clinic.... not through choice I might add. If there is no hope of change then things are going to get interesting.

Crewing can't or won't help with swaps, BS excuses why things can't be swapped and a roster that in the top group looks like the bottom. I can only count to 8 now as that is all I ever get off..... yes I know big boeing men, that is legal.

Angry is what is breeding, non compliance to set roster is inevitable.

[pool]

I have noticed that all the ASRs into ADD stopped once the Boeing was taken off it

So have the ASRs from MEL once the .....

Are you serious guys????

[fourgolds]

Ladies and gents. Classic Divide and rule. EK management must LOL reading this. Bus / Boeing , who gives a toss. We are on the same team. The issue is rostering / fatigue, and it is particularly bad on the bus. Those of us on the boeing should be interested in the busses issues because in the not too distant future they will affect the boeing fleet as well . We are on the same side here.

p.s Boeings seat sucks !

[Swansafa]

The AB guys are now lining up at the clinic....

Yes, well, that might teach them for being careless. What do they say to their wives....?? := :rolleyes:

[saywhat]

What do they say to their wives....??

I got it from the bunk (CRC). Honest dear:\:\

[Is Feidir linn]

Hey Guys if i Joined EK with 330 Rating what are chances to get onto the 380 or 777 as First Officer not interested with 330 in EK time for something new.....

sorry for thread drift....

:ok:

[Dirigible]

Strong rumour that this movement from 777 to 380 has been stopped. Anything official on that?

[ruserious]

yep heard that too, strong rumours of upgrades on 380 for F/O's as the training system cannot cope, especially with all the TC resignations

[Payscale]

What trainer resignations would that be? Check your info

[White Knight]

strong rumours of upgrades on 380 for F/O's as the training system cannot cope

I doubt that... Considering that current EK skippers need 3,000 hrs P1 330/340 or 777 to get 380 left seat and some of the 380 F/Os have ZERO command time ever:\:\:\

[Payscale]

Commands on the A380 will eventually come. Increasing fleet vs decreasing fleet.. Base airplane will be the A380 for some..

[ruserious]

and it will be the business needs that drives it, nothing to do with rules or logic, way it always has been and always will be. Rules are adapted to the business, not the other way round

[captainsmiffy]

....and some 380 F/Os have a decade plus of command time - just on a type below the magic 55 tonnes....

[donpizmeov]

So they weren't real captains then smithy? :E

[Rim-job]

White Night...

There are plenty of sharp FO's on the A380 who could succeed in an upgrade on type. Likewise there are several FO's that may not be ready. It's no different on the A380, A330, or 777. Some are ready, some are not. P1 time has nothing to do with it. Depends on the individual. You having training experience should understand this all too well.

I've got P1 time on types over 55 tons, but does that really make me a better pilot then my best friend who doesn't? In fact, he's probably one of the most astute lads I've ever had the pleasure of flying with. He's a very good operator and more then capable of passing any command course. No question.

I've got P1 time flying domestic in Australia and I've got plenty of P2 time flying in Europe. And to be honest, the P2 time has better prepared me for where I am today. A lot goes into making a pilots background. My point being... P1 is not the "be all and end all". The type of experience, the conditions one has flown in, and the ability/keenness of the person in question play a bigger role as far as I'm concerned.

[Oblaaspop]

Spot on Rim-job:ok:

IMHO, F/O's WILL upgrade directly on the A380 simply because in a few years time (or sooner) there wont be any A330's to come back across to anyway, so the company will have no choice...... BUT, while they do still have a choice, they will continue to bring guys back to the 'mini'-bus.

Simple really....

[donpizmeov]

You couldn't get a command direct onto the 777 years ago, but had to go back to the 300/310. That changed when they worked out how much it costs.
Direct RHS on the 380 and commands on the 380 will happen. Good luck with guessing the time frame though.

[Instant Hooligan]

Don,
The time frame for direct RHS is now, may have been a one off considering where the chap is from but DE 380 F/O is on the seniority list now. Ex Singapore by the looks of it.
Regards
IH
P.S What did I win? :E

[donpizmeov]

Yes you did. Prize is in the mail. :D

[fatbus]

So far only one pilot direct to the 380 and he came TR, RHS to LHS when most of the 332/343/345 are gone, only a guess but 3-5 years

[White Knight]

White Night...

Knight.... Not Night. Two very different things... You have also taken my post OUT OF CONTEXT, as has A380-800 Driver. Both of you go stand in a corner:{

I was NOT saying that the current 380 F/Os are not capable of upgrading on the 380. I'm stating that the current requirements state that 3,000 hours EK Command Time On 330/340 or 777 Is Required Ergo; no RHS to LHS on 380!!!

Yes, things change (you don't need to tell me thanks), but I am of the understanding that the requirement is as much to reduce the insurance premiums on the hulls as it is for the top brass to sleep peacefully at night - without nightmares of big smoking holes in the ground... Not that I doubt most of you 380 F/Os would do a wonderful job.

As an aside - the two second courses of 777 to 380 are cancelled. From a little birdie in my shell-like. (that means 'ear' for those of you who can't see the difference between Knight and Night:eek:)

[White Knight]

Also, ladies and gents; If you look at the bottom of the seniority list you'll see many new-joiners going to 330. I would deduce from that that they are to replace 330 F/Os upgrading on 330, who are upgrading to replace 330 skippers going to 380.

Elementary my dear Watson:cool::p:p

[tatin]

So far the one aspect of upgrades on 380 that hasn't been discussed and is the most important one: politics.

If TC doesn't want it, then AR, TCAS and the rest of the puppets don't dear to say anything. Although the course is ready, its not approved yet, and will not be for a long time. Also some of the golden oldies of the the 380 don't like the idea, cz then they don't feel special anymore.

Same happened to the Ipad, shafted due politics. Civil servants and bureaucracy, lack of industrial revolution.:bored:

[Bird On]

Seems the A380 maybe losing some of the ULRs soon which will be taken over by the 777s, hence the crew numbers on the 777 have just been recalculated.

[GoreTex]

right to left will happen very soon, I recommend the FO's to stay on the whale otherwise they are stuck on the 330 for a long time.

[fatbus]

I think it might be lack of 380 Capt causing a crewing problem. YYZ and JFK are still ULR ?

[ruserious]

think it is more of a case of wishful thinking, anything to disparage the 380, seems to make some Boeing pilots mysteriously happy, not quite sure why :hmm:

[GoreTex]

the 777 guys dont have a chip on their shoulder, the 777 wasn't the biggest plane in ek since we got the 345.

dont worry guys, size doesn't matter

[Dropp the Pilot]

I think you misread the reaction of Boeing people to the A380 faithful. It's not disparagement, it's mild amusement tinged with pity for anyone who could be so self-deluded. Sort of like meeting a modern-day Communist.

Why not dredge out a flight plan for NYC for both types? Brace yourself for a small shock. The 380 carries an extra ten tons on that trip for which it squanders an extra 60 tons of fuel. So six tons of fuel wasted for every ton in which it outdoes the 777.

That's not just bad business and a noxiously inefficient airframe, it is a crime against common sense and the environment.

Emirates has 380s because they were essentially free and they make nice mobile billboards. As it becomes more and more important to actually operate efficient and well-designed airplanes they will gradually disappear. I am looking forward to the spin which explains that move as the existence of the bloated blighted device on our flight line is a tragedy which cries out for a little humour.

[Schnowzer]

I think the 380 ULR issue is not current ULR but future expansion. I hear some of the destinations it was pencilled in for in can't take it.

[InnocentBystander]

At the end of the day the 380 right now carries basically the same amount of payload as a 300ER. The early 15 380 only earned their stay because EK only paid about M$85 for it (List price ~M$300). That's a lot of gas to squander...

Of course that will improve with future versions, but not by more than 10 or 15 tons of payload per airplane.

My guess is that they use the next 40 or so 380's as a bargaining chip to get more destinations in germany and other parts of europe. If they don't get them they'll cancel 380's and 350's as needed and kill Lufthansa and Air France with 777XR's (Or whatever they'll be called).

I don't think EK will ever have more than 50 380's in service.

[White Knight]

At the end of the day the 380 right now carries basically the same amount of payload as a 300ER

Ah, that'll be the 777-300ER that carries 14 First and 76 Business pax then? You know, the pax that make the money!!! (Or does the 380 now only carry 12/42??)

Payload isn't everything when you can shovel 90 premium pax into an airframe. I believe the 400 odd Y class and the little bit of freight are free earnings:}:}:}
If you check the loads on the 380 sectors premium is invariably 90% plus load factor - of full revenue pax. (Check Apollo)

As far as I can see, EK can operate every morning flight to Europe with the 380 (except maybe Athens), plenty of scope in Asia and India. Africa is opening up. MEL and BNE would work. The groundstaff in BHX are asking for 380 to operate 39/40... Whether you're Airbus or Boeing you have to concede that the passengers love it... It's a very comfortable way to travel the world:ok:

[Oblaaspop]

It never ceases to amaze me on this forum the amount of crap people spout as fact!!

Example: InnocentBystander claims that the first 15 A380's cost $85m each????

Are you crazy?? It is well known in the industry that manufactures and Airlines NEVER disclose the amount paid for aircraft when doing deals. I have no doubt that EK got a great deal on them, but for gods sake be sensible man!!

Unless you are TC or Sheik A, there is no way you could possibly know the intricacies of the business deals between Airbus and EK, so I urge you to produce evidence of your claim or remove it all together!:hmm:

And then we have Dropp with the age old nonsense about the A380 only carrying 10t more payload than the B777..... As WK alluded to, just how much monetary value are you allocating to 10t worth of First and Business Class pax and the extra 100 Y class pax?? You know very well that Payload alone doesn't even begin to tell a financial story. If it did, then Net Jets wouldn't make any money on the 1 passenger they have on board.

Be sensible chaps, EK is very good at making money PERIOD! Do you honestly think they would order 90 A380's and be talking about more if they didn't make money? That my friends is the simple fact of the matter.... Nuff Said!

[cerbus]

YYZ station manager told me he made more money per flight when the 777 did it then when the 380 now flies it.
The reason is the freight. Even though the 380 carries 155 more pax and almost 50% more up front pax it doesn't offset the fuel burn and no freight.
I would love to see the actual numbers but that is one manager's belief told to me.

[GoreTex]

cerberus,
you actually believe an emirates manager? you should see a shrink for a serious evaluation of your mind.

[SANDBLASTER]

And the small matter that the YYZ station manager is a she not a he!

[donpizmeov]

Using the logic on this forum, wouldn't it be prudent to remove all the seats and just fly the freight?

Makes staff travel a b@gga though.

The Don

[Engineseer]

Why not dredge out a flight plan for NYC for both types? Brace yourself for a small shock. The 380 carries an extra ten tons on that trip for which it squanders an extra 60 tons of fuel. So six tons of fuel wasted for every ton in which it outdoes the 777.

That's not just bad business and a noxiously inefficient airframe, it is a crime against common sense and the environment.You have a point about fuel burn per kg payload, but that is not the only measure of efficiency. The A380 is "suffers" from having 2 passenger decks and the luggage they "produce" being only absorbed by one cargo deck and that one being smaller than the 77W cargo deck by 6 LD3s.
The A380 beats the 77W by over 20% when it comes to fuel burn per passenger, this was confirmed by the SIA CEO in interviews, but can also be deducted from the A380 payload range chart and the 777 FCOM.

Saying Emirates only keeps the A380's because they were practically free and make good billboards quite disqualifies you in the eyes of the more knowledgeable forum members.

[saywhat]

A difference of 24 J Class tickets @ AED 33400 return. One sector AED 16700 X 24 = AED 400,800.00.
60 Tonne difference is 75 000 liters. (SG of 0.8) [corrected thanks to 5star]

Now there's a difference of 2 First Class seats granted they are probably not used, but all the same that's another AED 45430.00

Oh yes,then the cattle in the lower deck. That would be an extra 92 @ AED 6570.00 return. Thats a cool AED 302,220.00 one way.

All tolled up this is Aed 748,450.00. I'm very glad that some of my very well informed colleagues are not running this airline, as they would have you believe that we should not spend an extra 60 tonnes of gas to make that money. This weeks IATA average fuel price is $1015.50/metric tonne which would be $76162.50 (AED279 740).

At IATA prices (excluding hedging) the 380 makes a good deal more money.


Today's flight from JFK incidentally took 8/75/377.
No difference first class.
22 Difference Bussiness (excluding 1 staff)
70 Difference economy


My figures are straight off the Emirates web site, I'm sure they are probably out by a bit. I'm willing to bet though that the 380 is not the money wasting beast it is made out to be.

[helen-damnation]

AFAIK the 380 was going to GRU. That isn't happening for now, so no requirement for the 777 to 380 courses.

Obviousely all the guys of the first group failed their 380 transitions.
They are now back on B777.

Any truth in this rumours ???

No, just more BS. Halas :rolleyes:

[Rim-job]

The reason the 777-380 classes were cancelled has nothing to do with the GRU destination being on hold for the Fatbus.

It has to do with the fact the bean counters and what not forgot to include the 777 Freighters when factoring the staffing req's for each fleet.

A major oversight... as usual. :D Not the first time, won't be the last.

[5star]

Personally not interested in the beancounters job (I think we have more than enough indians in HQ for that), but I'm intrigued that you got the kg to liters conversion wrong. :ugh:
60 tons is still 75K liters buddy. :rolleyes:

Maybe next time go straight to bed after that nasty night turn.
Just check next time you sign off the techlog.....

[sheikmyarse]

which is most probably the case...:ok:

[saywhat]

Oops if my sums are wrong - sorry

[falconeasydriver]

The A380 beats the 77W by over 20% when it comes to fuel burn per passenger, this was confirmed by the SIA CEO in interviews, but can also be deducted from the A380 payload range chart and the 777 FCOM

Maybe at SIA, but a simple calculation based on KG per seat reveals a very different picture at EK (config differences etc etc) also, a quick look for those of you that can reveals that there are an awful lot of upgrades going on with respect to economy pax moving up to J. From a pure financial perspective it's hardly the money maker some are claiming on here, it is however a comfy beast to pax on and the goodwill the upgrades generate for EK is money in the bank IMHO.
Let's be honest here, if you go over to it you are effectively stopping your career in it's tracks, unless of course you enjoy the hotels in Incheon, or you are staying here till you are 65.

[White Sausage]

Ladies, are you for real??? Who cares how much fuel the whale needs or how much money it makes or not?? What is wrong with y'all?? You have too much free time to worry about this crap? The original question was whether to jump ships or not...
As much as I hate the 777 (coming from the bus), as a Captain you'd be crazy to go to the whale except for lifestyle. Nobody will ever employ you as a 380-DEC if you leave EK! This is the only valid point! You wanna work less? Fine, go fly the 380. You wannna remain marketable? Stay on the damn 777. It's that easy. I made my decision since I don't wanna be here for the next 10 or 20 years: I keep up with the ****ty seats and the terrible noise of the 777 but when the day comes I'll get a job somewhere else in a heartbeat. Your talk about fuel and money is soooooo boring, get a life!

[GoreTex]

....but if you want to retire in a few years and never ever want to fly again the 380 is great to fly and easy to operate, thats what really counts.

So funny to listen to the 777 drivers who say the 380 wont do any LR or european flights in the future, I am sure they are right and EK just bought them to stand on the tarmac.

[White Sausage]

GT, you got a point and your are absolutely right. I just cannot listen to this "mine is bigger than yours, mine is making more money than yours, but yours is using more fuel than mine" cr:ugh:p anymore. Who gives a :mad:??? It´s all about lifestyle and personal future planning, nothing more. A plane is a plane is a plane, for god´s sake! Grow up people!

[glofish]

It's definitely about lifestyle and career, just read the copilots rant about getting shafted to the fatbus.
Let the T7 drivers go fly the whale if they want, i'm sure they'll manage, and let the ones keep their T7 rating who feel ok with it.

Concerning the routes and fuel guzzling. Look at what Lufthansa and Air France are doing this winter, they're pulling the fatbus off routes that show thinner preloads. Now this is not an easy exercise, just a phone call from SMNC away. It takes a lot of planning and shifting of manpower, so you wouldn't do it, if not really for some savings. This indicates a problem with the whale when loads are not high.

So we might be prepared for some big shifts in patterns for the next couple of seasons, if EK can get their manning right for once.

TC will stay happy with the whale as long as Airbus pays the huge compensations for overweight and lack of promised performance (ask the top bean counters how much, you'll be surprised). Once this is gone, it will sound very much different.