GA Contracting questions

[Bug Squasher]

G'day guys/girls.

I am "sub contracting" for a GA company (there requirement). I am wondering if i still fall under the pilot award?

squasher

[das Uber Soldat]

haha, here we go again!

*holds on* :}

Sham contracts - Independent contractors - Employment - Fair Work Ombudsman (http://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment/independent-contractors/sham-contracts/pages/default.aspx)

[Bug Squasher]

thanks uber, it's helpful, but does not really answer my question!

[das Uber Soldat]

Of course it answers your question, use your bloody brain.

Sham contracting in GA, especially instructing is the oldest trick in the book. And its bull****. So 99% chance you don't qualify as a contractor, but an employee.

As an employee you're covered by the award. :ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

Please remember the award is a minimum, not something to aspire to...:hmm:

[tail wheel]

Bug Squasher. If you are working as a pilot or instructor, rostered by the GA operator, working under their Chief Pilot's supervision and operating in accordance with their Operations Manual, you are NOT a contractor/sub contractor and likely not even a casual employee.

And yes, you are covered by the Pilots Award.

This subject has been done to death on PPRuNe.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

"Sometimes, employers dismiss, or threaten to dismiss, employees if they don't agree to become independent contractors. This is against the law. "

And yet the scum EMPLOYERS will tell newbies that this is "normal" and if they don't accept it then they will never get a start in the industry. :mad::mad:

Rather than name and shame here, why not go to the Fair Work Ombudman and the ATO and report this? The sooner these EMPLOYERS are forced to do the right thing the better. They are not only dodging the award but thier super obligations as well, and as for your workers comp and public liability cover, hope you have your own because otherwise if something happens they can try the second oldest trick in the book "didn't comply with the ops manual" (the requirement to follow it proving that you were an employee all along!)

[notaplanegeek]

Despite what many people think it is almost impossible to employ pilots as contractors unless they are providing their own aircraft. Seriously I've heard every excuse under the sun for an employer thinking they have the right to not pay someone under the award. Is it legal... no. Just because a worker ticks 8 out of the 20 boxes of the employee/ contractor test does not make him a contractor.

99% of pilots will complain to their peers and other work colleagues on a daily basis about how much they are getting shafted. Yet all they need to do it make a complaint to the fair work ombudsman (you can remain anonymous). However only 1% of pilots actually have the balls to do this. So result, employer xyz thinks great, I can get away with it, even if I get busted for one pilot I'm still creaming it.

I know of a number of employers in general aviation that are making over 100K per year by just not paying superannuation. Pretty good little scam when you think about it.

You can still make a complaint after you leave xyz and get back payment for all money owed.

[beat ups are fun]

You can still make a complaint after you leave xyz and get back payment for all money owed.

I used to work for a company who have been pulling this stunt for years. The rate of pay has never increased, however the workload and accountabilities would have least doubled. Might have to have a chat with the ombudsman, not because I want back pay, just to try and keep them honest.

[propblast]

I used to work for a company who have been pulling this stunt for years. The rate of pay has never increased, however the workload and accountabilities would have least doubled. Might have to have a chat with the ombudsman, not because I want back pay, just to try and keep them honest.

Yep, do it. If half the old employees do it then half of these shams would be forced to close. Thus making it easier for for companies that do do the right thing to survive.

Beat ups. You probably worked and were treated like a dog. But every dog has its day.

[FokkerInYour12]

Name and shame here. Do it.

[Xcel]

I worked for one in the past - still waiting for my backpay 7 years on...

what was worse was the owner was the then head of aopa and telling everyone how pilots should unite to increase conditions. Made sense why they went bankrupt.

After working for the first I then thought it was a normal course of employment and signed up again... Cmon chuck when you gonna pay up and go the way of the first operator I referred to?? It's a wonder anyone flies for him as I know it was a flat refusal one day when his famous mile high club flights were advertised in the local rainbow rag with willing participants wondering where all the pilots had run too... I mean cmon a Seneca is just a little cozy for that kind of behaviour...

Would be awesome if afap would give out a little information pack or similar to newly licenced blokes... But alas the same tricks and questions over and over it seems.

Do you supply specialist equipment and tools? Yes my headset oh I must be a contractor:ugh:

Seems all my posts lately are negative - cmon bring on happy threads!!

[foodstamps]

Name and shame HERE

scared people might find out who you are on pprune? easy: create a random hotmail account. use that to sign up with a new pprune account. name and shame :ok:

[PyroTek]

Get a proxy and use a different IP too:ugh:

[LeadSled]

what was worse was the owner was the then head of aopa and telling everyone how pilots should unite to increase conditions. Made sense why they went bankrupt.

Xcel,
Please get your facts straight, the (now deceased)above person's business went broke, NOT AOPA.
AOPA is still very much still in existence, no thanks to the above chap.
Tootle pip!!

[Xcel]

Facts are straight - wasn't referring to aopa being the one that went broke...

Also talking about prior to the person you are referring to passing away...

p.s rereading my post I can see how you came to that conclusion but his business was wound up by his estate wasn't it? This event was prior to that and was followed by a series of mergers to stay afloat the last of which is when your talking and aopa president had then changed...

Ooo so cryptic now!!

Do you give up?

Rumour was chieftain flying school and Air Australia practiced this from time to time - we'll see how long this post stays intact hey mods...

[GADRIVR]

Gidday Xcel...

There was no merger of any kind with any business regardless of what a certain light fingered Sydney basin dwelling filthbag lying dog would have people to believe!!!!!

That business was closed down for one reason and one reason only.
The owners wife could not take the stress of trying to keep that business afloat after the death of her husband....understandably. Yes it had problems....big ones...but that wasn't why it was closed.

Having said that...one shouldn't be placed in a position of being an unlawful contractor.

The industry is slowly changing though. Light at the end of the tunnel and so on.:D

[Xcel]

Gadriver -
chieftain tied up with Illawarra which didn't work out as both were in as much trouble as each other - so chieftain turned to afts. And there it stayed until as you say, the wife of the departed decided she didn't want to be running a flying school, and so closed up shop...

Sorry but most of the time I'm useless but in this instance I'm pretty sure I'm right.

As a "contractor" I got to enjoy the hot shoe shuffle with a different name paying me each month and finally 3 months of no pay (even though I never moved)... Fun times.

I am intrigued about who is saying they merged after all this though... Definately the dogs breakfast of airports in Australia!!

[navajoe]

Took a bloke to court over this caper once, he said I was a contractor I said I was a casual. The judge agreed with me...bloke paid up. Company now defunct.

[tail wheel]

The only instance I can think of where you may be a contractor is if you quote to provide a one time ferry flight, domestic or international, for the purposes of relocating an aircraft on a non revenue flight.

[D-J]

The industry is slowly changing though. Light at the end of the tunnel and so on.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jha/lowres/jhan479l.jpg

[Bug Squasher]

the conditioned outlined in my contract isnt as bad as some people have outlined..
i am covered under the insurance.

i asked the question as i was reading the award, noticed the minimum duties and flight times and the pay corresponding.. one day for instance i was at the office all day and flew less then an hour. now if you can do your maths.. thats a whole days work for... ~$20-30. the award states that i need to be payed for atleast 2 hours flight.. am i entitled?

[PLovett]

Bug Squasher

i am covered under the insurance.

You have just crossed off one of the tests for not being a contractor. As one, you are supposed to provide your own insurance.

[das Uber Soldat]

Seriously? You read all the responses in this thread and you still ask ..'am i entitled?"

:ugh:
:ugh:
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:ugh:
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:ugh:
:ugh:

With that intelligence you deserve $20 a day.

[Xcel]

Use your feet...

Just remember with your awesome $20 for a day - as a contactor - you need to pay your insurance, upkeep your specialist equipment and tools, pay your own tax, pay your own superannuation, pay to get to and from the airport and then support yourself (and if your lucky a family)

now if you did not answer yes to everyone of those then your not a contractor by any context - most definately can't be a job if your in the red after a days work - a hobby maybe but not a job.

If it were me, I would move on (as I did), you'll be happier.

it took me 6 months at the first and 2 months at the second I got suckered into before realising how I was having my pants pulled down and moved on. Since then nothing but fulltime, never paid for an endorsement, made just shy of 6 figures pa in ga - they aren't all crooks - keep hunting.

Do yourself the favour. Don't waste the time like I did (and money)- move on - the real jobs are out there and waiting for you...

[gutso-blundo]

Mate if you want a definitive answer talk to an industrial lawyer.
Too expensive? Rubbish! 1% of your salary + G.S.T...

With your earnings its a bargain :D

[Ejector]

Shocked I went to the Fair Work Australia website to find out what I could do.
They have a test you can do online to check if you are being employed under sham-contracting.
The test said this is what I was being employed under.
I was working for one company on constant shift work but was being paid under minimum wage, wasn’t being paid superannuation and had no Work Cover insurance.
I was told all the other employees at my work were on the same arrangements.
When I worked out how I was being employed, my wife and I were very angry that I could be treated so badly when I was going to work and doing my job each day.
I have created a petition asking the company to pay me back the legal minimum wage.
Yesterday I arrived in Canberra with the National Union of Workers to attend the ACTU’s summit on insecure work.


Read more: Could you feed your family on $9 per hour | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/opinion/could-you-live-while-earning-9-per-hour/story-fnh4jt54-1226597092743#ixzz2NTSe239C)

[morno]

Ejector,
You don't need to create a petition to get what's owed to you. All you need to do is contact Fair Work Australia. Maybe even join AFAP and seek their help if needed.

Problem solved.

morno