how do I get ARFOR without internet

[rijobe]

I am studying for my commercial licence and recently I did a flight from Parafield to Alice Springs to Ayers Rock and back over 3 days. The resort at Ayers rock had the wi fi down so I had to use a pay internet machine to access the ARFOR, TAFs etc via the AIS/MET system on Airservices Australia, and do a flight plan through that also instead of NAIPS on my laptop

Question is, what would have been my options if the internet was down completely? I know I could have put a flight plan in with ATC but what would could I do if I was in the middle of nowhere at a non towered aerodrome and no internet. I cannot fly without a forecast or even a flight plan being a remote area?

[Genisis Dreaming]

Telephone to Briefing? Last resort, HF? Have never tried the later...

[strim]

As you are studying for a CPL, I assume you pay a flying school a significant amount of money in order to achieve this.

Ask your instructor, that is their job.

If he/she can't answer your question, get a new instructor/flying school.

This should have been addressed prior to you launching off into remote areas.

Also, as a piece of general advice if you are planning on operating commercially one day - read. Read the ERSA cover to cover, AIP likewise. You'll be amazed at what you learn.

[The Green Goblin]

HF is the answer.

Instead of putting in a full plan, (which can be challenging over HF) nominate a SAR time for arrival at your destination. If you can't get HF Call Brisbane or Melbourne centre on the numbers provided. I'm sure you will have mobile coverage in the towns.

Under the regs you can depart from the aerodrome without a wx forecast, provided you are satisfied that the conditions will satisfy a SAFE (not scud running at 500 ft) return for up to an hour and you get weather reports BEFORE 30 mins after departure.

Once you are airborne you can get some TAFS/ARFORs from Centre or flight watch.

If you can't get a "firm" forecast for the destination, you need an alternate.

Remember, this does not alleviate your responsibilities as PIC to study ALL available information prior to flight.

Oh, and the NAIPs app on iPhone is pretty handy for this type of thing :)

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Question is, what would have been my options if the internet was down completely?

1) Phone the Briefing Office - mobile, landline, sat phone. They remain very willing to help - at least in my experience.

2) HF

3) VHF to Centre - only as a last resort cause they are often busy, but if you explain the circumstances they are usually pretty good. Helps if you know the essential elements only of a flight plan to deliver on the radio.

Dr :8

[rijobe]

thanks for the fast response on the info guys :)

[compressor stall]

Agreed with the above - it's very slack of the flying instructor/school not to have briefed you on how to do this before hand.

It's possible though your instructor had never flown north of Hawker so may not be aware of it, but the CFI should keep an eye out for these things. Pretty poor IMHO.

[Ando1Bar]

And if someone so happens to give you the direct number to briefing don't ever delete it from your phone! Not sure if the PhoneAway cards still exist, but they were a great backup, as long as the card hadn't expired and you could find a serviceable payphone.

Rijobe, :ok: for getting 'out there' and beyond your comfort zone. It's better you learn this things now and not when you're out in the 'real-world'. However, your instructor should have provided you with some more information - central Australia is not somewhere you want to become stuck! The good schools I used to instruct at would ensure the nav student had a least a couple of flights in their PPL or CPL stage that didn't rely on NAIPS.

[rijobe]

to be fair on my instructor I know I have covered it with him but couldnt remember what the answer was. Always hard to remember everything when trying to learn so much information. I guess I became so reliant on my laptop and NAIPS that I never gave it any more thought till I had internet issues. @Ando1Bar - yes having a couple of flights in the program that forced the student to use sources other than NAIPS would be a good idea as we are becoming more and more reliant on the internet

BTW I took strims advice and have just been through my ERSA and found what I needed in GEN FP - knew it had to be somewhere but so many sources of information it is sometimes hard to find what I need

[Captain Nomad]

And if someone so happens to give you the direct number to briefing don't ever delete it from your phone!

At the end of every ARFOR there is a 'Remarks' heading with something along the likes of "FOR MORE INFORMATION RING THE AVIATION FORECASTER [08] 9263 ****." Note the numbers with the area code/weather regions that are suitable and put them in your phone if you wish.

You can also register with the phone based 'Metbrief' through NAIPS or by phoning Airservices Help Desk on 1800 801 960. Another number 1800 805 150 to access the service (charges apply). You can punch in codes to get ARFOR,TAF, and TTF.

Jeppesen ATC section also provides telephone numbers in case of 1800 number service difficulties and regional met office numbers for 'technical elaboration of met products' etc. Helpful if you want some behind the scenes info or a TAF made up in the middle of the night etc... :E Not giving the numbers or the exact references here - if you want it you can do your own homework but the numbers are not a secret! ;)

[The Green Goblin]

Let's also talk HF.

You'd be surprised at a basic lack of knowledge of what frequency to use when you are not nominated a primary or secondary HF by centre.

Low frequencies at night (3s), dusk or dawn (6s), and the middle of the day (8s)

For instance in the tropics I'd try 3452 at night. If I couldn't get flight watch on this I'd give 6541 a go. During the day I'd swap between 8843 and 6541. At dusk and dawn I'd start with 6541 and give 3452 and 8843 a go.

I hope this helps some of the many strugglers out there :E

[Ando1Bar]

GG,

And do I start talking as soon as I press the transmit button when on HF? I heard I should talk really fast as well because Flightwatch are monitoring so many frequencies!

;)

Good advice by the way, I'm not talking the piss out of your comment, just speaking about what I hear on HF every now and then!

[The Green Goblin]

GG,

And do I start talking as soon as I press the transmit button when on HF? I heard I should talk really fast as well because Flightwatch are monitoring so many frequencies!

Just make sure it's not the PA button ay :cool:

[SOPS]

I am getting old!! When I started flying there was no internet or mobile phone network. If you were at Bringabarraback, 100 miles from Kicacowhard, it was normal to use the HF to get the AFOR and submit flight plans. From memory, you just read the information contained in the "Red" boxes on the flight planning sheet..but i could be wrong.

But trust me..you can use the HF..someone will talk to you:ok:

[Hempy]

Just make sure it's not the PA button ay :cool:

Never having flown a big jet I don't know the answer to this, but how easy is it to hit the PA vice the radio ptt?

p.s I love it when I don't need to say anything..

Offender: "Ladies and Gentlemen welcome aboard XXX flight YYY to ZZZZ...ohhh"
VH-ABC: "Excuse me Captain, what time's the movie?"
VH-DEF: "Whats the weather like at ZZZZ?
VH-GHI: "If I don't make my connection I'm suing"
Offender: "Sorry, the F/O can't answer the radio right now, he's hiding under the seat"..