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Expressflight
8th May 2011, 07:35
The website of this proposed start-up now gives more details of their plans, which have been announced to coincide with the Routes conference at Cagliari which starts today.

www.joinairlines.com (http://www.joinairlines.com)

Aero Mad
8th May 2011, 08:15
It will be interesting to see how the plans of Executive Airlines, who want to start flights from London-Southend to Amsterdam, Caen, Cologne-Bonn and Manchester pan out - rather ambitious but would be an improvement for SEN.

adfly
8th May 2011, 08:22
Judging by the website, fleet and network plans I think 'Join' could be a decent niche regional operator if they can start up successfully. The website and plans seem far more professional than 'Ellie Vannin' or whatever they are called! As long as there is no-one like Halstead behind this they I think they could succeed with the right aircraft and decent advertising.

JSCL
8th May 2011, 08:25
It has potential but could be an uphill struggle using SEN off the bat.

Seems like a company called 'tias consultancy' are behind this - T.I.A.S. Consultancy - The International Aviation Services (http://tias-consultancy.com/)

MUFC_fan
8th May 2011, 13:12
I've always thought as SEN as a great airport for LON expansion.

Now with it's easy access it's a dream for travellers not wanting to go through such large airports currently in operation.

Not to mention the region around SEN which is closer for those who are currently having to use LGW, LHR, STN, LTN etc.

With the right backing and management this one may work.

dada
8th May 2011, 13:42
Best make sure you do a runway inspection first MUFC and report back to the CAA

virginblue
8th May 2011, 22:49
I don't think you can call them an airline. Seems to be more like a marketing umbrella for virtual airlines from various European countries that are willing to sell tickets under a common branding, to do joint marketing / distribution and jointly buy flight services from ACMI operators (initially from Denim Airways and later on from JOIN once it has got its own AOC). As far as I understand it, there are a couple of virtual airlines from Germany, the Netherlands, France, Belgium and the UK on board, but only one of them - German "Jetisfaction" - has already provided short-lived scheduled services from FMO to ZRH and POZ.

I am surprised that Executive Airlines is mentioned as a "JOIN" airline. Why would a reasonably successful biz jet operator be bothered to enter regional scheduled services?

JSCL
8th May 2011, 22:57
@VirginBlue Interesting take really, Im surprised to see them there also - they have NO interest in scheduled unless they expect the other guys to use their services.

Seems like a 'virtual alliance'.

Expressflight
9th May 2011, 07:25
As I understood it, their initial operations would be with JOIN Regional Airlines liveried aircraft operated by Denim Air under an ACMI contract. They would therefore be a 'proper' airline responsible for all commercial activity but with Denim Air responsible for operational matters, in a similar way to which many start-ups have began; not least Ryanair. When that system is used while obtaining your own AOC, that's not a 'virtual' airline in my book.

virginblue
9th May 2011, 07:36
My understanding is that the AOC will be with JOIN and they will sell aircraft capacity to its members (unless these take out an outright franchise). Whether these will indeed market it under the JOIN brand is the interesting question - until now, the marketing of the likes of GLM or Jetisfaction suggests otherwise, but this might change of course. As the website talks about "local brand names" and the "family name", the concept could be that "JOIN" is a suffix and the members will operate as "JOIN GLM", "JOIN Jetisfaction" etc.

JSCL
9th May 2011, 07:37
Not too sure if the use of Denim Air is going to work?

On 18 February 2010, Denim Air ceased operations after all wet-lease contracts had ended within weeks. Dutch legal company De Vos & Partners has been appointed as curator of wet-lease specialist Denim Air after it was declared bankrupt.

Also reading it was 'semi-revived' and now has a much smaller operation with only 3xF50's - doubt that's going to work for these guys.

virginblue
9th May 2011, 08:09
They seem to be doing okay:

Availability list | Denim Air (http://www.denimair.nl/availability-list)

Also offering Q300s and Fokker 100s.

At the moment the whole thing is more or less a paper tiger, so if they get off the ground, Denim would have time to ramp up capacity. The guy behind JOIN has been involved in literally any Dutch regional carrier of the past 25 years (BASE, Fairline, TTA, VLM), so I guess he also has close links with Denim.

LGS6753
9th May 2011, 20:08
Twelve hours on, the Join website seems to be down.
Massive interest or 'rumbled'?

Expressflight
10th May 2011, 06:45
The website works fine for me and there's certainly nothing to "rumble" as LGS6753 so quaintly puts it.

DodgyJournalist
10th May 2011, 07:03
There are always rumours about new companies and everybody needs to be cautious and are right to question these businesses. However, having spent lunch with the person behind this project, I can confirm that unlike many others, this is a real business. I will be interviewing him this afternoon for a story in my publication so look out for that in the future.
RJM

Expressflight
10th May 2011, 07:51
Like DodgyJournalist says this is a very real project and I also have met with Bernard Jacobs and we discussed his plans at length. So yes we are all naturally cautious when we first hear about a start-up project for very good historical reasons, but this really is a serious, 'live' project.

fjencl
10th May 2011, 07:52
Maybe you can ask the owner if they will set up a UK base.

harriewillem
11th May 2011, 07:11
Hope it will work out, but...

If you take a look at the route map.


Groningen has never worked for regional ops in the past. Only BMI has an high yield to Aberdeen that works out. Flying and from Groningen en Munster to Stockholm will kill both routes as they are to thin.

And todays PAX are crazy enough to drive 1,5 hr one way for 20 Euro cheaper tickets. :ugh:

Same for Southend, not any unique destinations for London so it will be hard for them.

Also the team-up of Jetisfaction (operated only for few months out of Munster, crappy perfomance, check German newspapers) and GLM (virtual start-up from Groningen) is risky.

But on the other hand, if the 30 MLN would be in place, flying for a few seasons is always good!

JSCL
11th May 2011, 07:20
Seeing their MAN to SEN intention, I'm not too sure that'll work out for the London market, but time will tell.

fjencl
3rd Jul 2011, 11:17
Any updates re this airline.

Is there a start date yet ???

Will there be based aircraft in the UK.

elfietro
27th Jul 2011, 10:15
Seeing their MAN to SEN intention, I'm not too sure that'll work out for the London market, but time will tell.


I agree. Too much competition from the train. VLM had to cancel LCY-MAN, so why would SEN-MAN work?

Aero Mad
27th Jul 2011, 14:45
...why would SEN-MAN work?

Cheaper - SEN has an interest in giving reduced fees in order to promote itself.

JSCL
27th Jul 2011, 14:46
Sure, but take Aer Arann as an example, ticket costs arent as low as you'd expect. I'd expect ticket prices to be very similar to that of the train.

If the route has potential, I'd expect Flybe to pull on it.

elfietro
29th Jul 2011, 10:04
You could be right...

although, cheaper than traintickets?