Britten Norman Islanders [Love em or Hate em?]

[Skystar320]

Over the past couple of weeks I have flown a fair few hours as a passenger in the Britten Norman Islander.

All I can say is I love um.

With the exceptional STOL aircraft and great viewing by the passenger and when comparing the numbers on operating costs any accountant would love them!

What's everyone else's thoughts?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

EH..???

Whadidja say..??

Can't hear ya....its this noise in me ears....:}

Cheers:ok:

[Skystar320]

True there as noisy as me x girlfriend, but a good pair of earmuffs, muffs it out.

[Howard Hughes]

I love em, but then again I have never flown one!;)

[cac_sabre]

Britten-Norman BN2 XL

By a well-known Flight magazine.

Undaunted by technical realities, the design team at Pilatus Britten - Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL, promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload.

We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker, and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a licensing agreement. Fred reassured BN-2 pilots, however, that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit.

Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30 degrees of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight of the aircraft. Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built in to the rudder pedals to prevent over-controlling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots).

An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaptation of the O-540 engine which, when mounted in any other aircraft in the free world (except the Trislander) is known for its low vibration levels. The Islander adaptations cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallise the main spar, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin. PBN will not disclose the technology they applied in preserving this effect in the XL but Mr. Gribble assures us it will be perpetrated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point. "After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise" he said, "and look how fast that goes."

However design documents clandestinely recovered from the PBN shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years, disclosing that it is actually noise which causes the BN2 to fly. The vibration set up by the engines, and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and creating lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise, rather than speed, explaining amongst other things the aircraft's remarkable takeoff performance.

In the driver's cab (as Gribble describes it) ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term PBN pilots' deafness does not cause in-flight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, en-route insomnia, chronic irritability, and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned "bullworker" elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness. Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear-pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether.

We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at Britten-Norman's development facility, adjacent to the British Rail tearooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Pilatus plant but aircraft of BN design are now prohibited from operating in Swiss airspace during avalanche season). For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with coal for a standard 100 N.M. trip with British Rail reserves, carrying one pilot and nine passengers to maximise discomfort. Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal under-wing protrusions inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual confusion in selecting a door appropriate to the allocated seat. The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has been thoughtfully retained.

Start-up is standard, and taxiing, as in the BN2 is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250-decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated at 180 ft/lbs. of backpressure.

Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in vibration of the flight instrument panel. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many BN2 routes because of ethnic consideration).

Shortly after takeoff the XL's chief test pilot, Capt. Mike "Muscles" Mulligan demonstrated the extent to which modern aeronautical design has left the BN2 untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. The XL, like its predecessor, demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed. Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions. At 5000 ft and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 210 lb/hr, making the BN2-XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise after the Titan rocket.

Exploring the Constant noise/Variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long-term BN2 pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards. We asked Capt. Mulligan what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his ear and shouted "Whazzat?"

We returned to Britten-Norman convinced that the XL model retains the marque's most memorable features, whilst showing some significant and worthwhile regressions.
PBN are not, however, resting on their laurels. Plans are already advanced for the Trislander XL and noise tunnel testing has commenced. The basis of preliminary design and performance specifications is that lift increases as the square of the noise, and as the principle of acoustic lift is further developed, a later five-engined vertical take-off model is also a possibility."

All in all, a wonderful aeroplane.

[Avturbound]

I fly the said aircraft.

I love them STOL capabilities are awesome, is a solid machine, yes they are loud but get yourself a pair of Bose A20's and the noise is no different to any other twin.!

Thumbs up for the Islander, Capable machine love flying them!:ok:

[Konev]

"great viewing by passengers"

unless your in the 3rd row :=

[scroogee]

In the couple I flew the built in shower unit for the ferals was quite good- esp those in rows 3 &4 (for those who haven't seen it- during and after rain, water would flow in through the roof wing/fuselage join and accumulate in the ceiling, only to become evident with movement or acceleration - such as taxying or t/o).

[Torres]

....any accountant would love them!

A fallacy.

Where the operation dictates an aircraft of the capacity and capability of the Islander - e.g. STOL bush operations - there is very little to compare to a BN2 except perhaps, a C206, which has lower seat/mile costs. Certainly, DHC6 and particularly C208 seat/mile costs are significantly lower than BN2 seat/mile costs.

On normal, non STOL operations, the Islander seat/mile costs are far higher than similar capacity twin engine aircraft, particularly if one takes to account aircraft speed, the high cost of maintenance and limited major component life. And the inevitable buckled wings! And cracked engine mounts! And corrosion in the lower wing skin laminates! And.....

Horses for courses! They do the job they were intended to do, but at a cost penalty. :=

[T28D]

Constant noise ,variable power

[bogdantheturnipboy]

Love em :ok:

[Jabawocky]

This cool one belongs to a mate of mine ...... Kero Burner;)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/corsair67/Avalon%202011/430.jpg

[Xcel]

When 6 minutes is your longest sector and the STOL capabilities are required then yeah they weren't bad... In all other circumstances not so good...

The PAC 750 performed better - took more load - was cheaper to run - safer - waterproof - quiet - faster and more comfortable. The only real advantage to the islander is initial price... Apart from that - it's had it's day. If you want a high wing version go the kodiak.

Mind you our choice was between 30,000hr airframes vs a 500 Hr one.

Other choice was arm mm from a prop or face full of exhaust when getting in and out... Why oh why didn't PAC follow cessna's lead in placing an augmentor Or similar down the side...(sorry thread drift)

I don't miss the plane so much as the flying associated with it's type...

Anyone looking for a bushy in png/west Papua??:}

[Skystar320]

yes but how does a PAC 750 price compare with the BN-20?

[Captain Nomad]

Or a better question, 'what's the load carrying profit margin earning potential of a PAC 750 vs an Islander?' ;) Pritty hard to beat the 750 on that one...

[blackhand]

O hush your mouth all you NaYsayERS, it is a great truck.
Was standing at Horn Island airstrip one time, 14 of the machines took off, didn't see no pack 750s anywhere.
And has far as Maintenance costs Mr. TOrres, as you would know, there wasn't any.:suspect:
Saw evidence of sb190 carried out in three days.

load carrying profit margin

Depends on whozat loading

Ah the good old days.

[Tinstaafl]

A very 'British' design: Excellent at doing a particular job it was designed for and sod any other possible improvement.


One day Messrs. Britten & Norman were chatting about their forthcoming design. Said Mr Britten "I say, old boy, this aeroplane will excellent at short field operations. Don't fancy being the one to fly it though. What say we make some improvements to the ergonomics before we start manufacturing it?"

"Why?" replied Mr Norman

"Yes. I see what you mean."

[Blackbladder]

I seem to recall Torres was the only operator at Horn Island to have hangar, engineer and maintenance costs. The other operators appear to consistently achieve 100 hours (and more!), defect free.

[Tinstaafl]

Torres must have had the -A or -B models. The others would have had the -M** version. There's a conversion process if you're unfortunate enough to only have the As or Bs. Very cheap too with a great benefit to the profit margin, as long as you don't have an accident or the regulator is a bit dozy.






** Minus maintenance

[Torres]

Jaba. They were a special purpose aircraft - as is that machine - and they do that task well.

Unfortunately in charter or RPT, nine seats won't fund the capital and maintenance cost of two Allison B250's. I vaguely recall the Turbine Islander also had less endurance, and over a 100 mile plus sector, less payload than the piston Islander due to higher fuel burn?

The best part of the Islander was the Lycoming 540s, the rest was fairly maintenance intensive. The BN2A Mk III Trislander was Britain's revenge on the Empire!

Tins. There were many BN2A-M's in the Torres Strait. Some had very questionable histories......

[Unusual-Attitude]

1300 hrs in the Bongo all up.

As someone has already said, I probably miss the interesting places the old bucket could get me into and out of, rather than the actual aircraft itself, very fun flying!

That said, it has got me out of some tight corners on occasion, so I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for it...just don't make me fly one ever again...please.

[swaziboy]

CAC Sabre - that was brilliant... brought tears to my ears...

[Pinky the pilot]

Just over 800 hours in the flamin' things, all logged cruising about various parts of PNG.

Got me into and out of an assortment of goat tracks, ex WW11 strips and several 'Ohhh Sheeeeett' moments.:eek: Managed to get a 260hp version up to 17,000' once.

Carried SLF, the odd coffin (occupied), bags of coffee (the aroma was :ok:), on one occasion some curiously smelling black rubbish bags of which I thought it would be very wise of me if I asked no questions:uhoh:, freshly slaughtered pigs:eek: and once a souvenired 50cal BMG, minus the action.

Wouldn't have missed the experiences for the world!:ok: Even if I am now half deaf!:uhoh:

[Bongo Bus Driver]

Love them! :ok:

[Jabawocky]

The best part of the Islander was the Lycoming 540s

not bad engines hey! :ok:

[Chimbu chuckles]

If you love flying Islanders you haven't flown them enough - best part of 2000hrs...in both seats. It garners a level of respect....but LOVE?

YGBSM:uhoh::hmm::ouch::ooh::E

[RadioSaigon]

Yeah, I've got something around 800+ BN-2 time across 1/2-doz different airframes, 2 of which had the Row 3 additional window mod. That certainly made a difference from a pax PoV.

I've used the BN-2 from the beaches to the mountains and everywhere in-between, in NZ. I'll always have something of a soft-spot for the (IMO maligned) Islander. I reckon they're a tremendous wee airframe. As others have mentioned already, the biggest issue with an Islander these days is corrosion and of course SB190.

I had to laugh (quietly) one day not long after arriving in the West Island... I was at a cafe in Port Hedland not completely intentionally eavesdropping the next table, where a couple of likely lads complete with uniform shirts, wings, bars & large watches were (loudly) regaling one-another with stories of their heroics in the BN-2... one mentioned to the other that he had recently "put her down and got her off again in just under 600m"!!! Sounded pretty hair-raising :hmm:

I left before it was necessary to point out we regularly operated off strips sub-600m at gross weight, regularly requiring less than 1/2 the available length, without any drama... and was considered so absolutely routine to be not worthy of mention :E

So yeah, I reckon they're a bloody marvellous wee machine. Not many out there that'll get into tight, unlikely spots with a good load and get out with a good load too.

I too have a soft-spot for the 540's -bloody things just don't know when to quit! Damn fine mills.

[bob johns]

I first flew an.Islander.in 1971 .VH ISA and since that first flight I have flown them .in excess of 3500 hrs in Papua New .Guinea and NW Australia We had all sorts of nicknames for him ie .BROOM BROOOOM Thames Trader Rumble Guts ETC I .bloody well love them all 36 different aircraft The most interesting cargo was a 4 metre live crocidile in PNG and the only fright apart from every day flying in PNG was when some boof head did nt remove the aileron lock before take off . .in Port HEDLAND WA..Dont try this at home but you can get eneough rudder to get away with it the boof head of course me no ribbon on the lock last bloke put lock.inboard of aileron time running out jet departing jet on mid final ATC asks to expedite no bloody .excuse THE BN2 is my favourite Balus.No geat stakes in the glamour glitz but .in the .real world of practical bush operations in my day you could nt beat him

[Torres]

Rabbit. That was a fairly normal attitude for a Trislander - especially if the crew alighted first! At one time the Islander and Trislander were a common type endorsement in Australia.

Jaba. Cost and reliability wise, the Lycoming 540 series engines were the best and certainly superior to comparable Continental engines. Lycoming 540s installed in Islanders were rigidly mounted, ensuring all vibration is successfully transferred to the airframe, thus keeping thousands of rivets vibrating in unison! Unfortunately, that also leads to engine mount fatigue cracks....

I believe the Lycoming IO720 (11.8 liters, 400 HP) series are also great engines (there is no O720 engine) - perhaps the Trislander should have two 720s, total 800 HP, rather than 3 x O540s for 780 HP? Two Allison B250s would also be better than three 540s.

There was one long nose Islander in Australia which was unique. Also, the last new Trislander airframes were also shipped to Australia with a view to installing two light weight V8s, but that was some years ago and I don't know where they ended up, maybe converted to pots, pans and beer cans?

I think we operated 23 or 24 Islanders in PNG, 260 and 300 HP models, at one time the world's largest operator of the type. They had a hard life but well maintained and most would have been rather second hand by the time Chuck got to fly them!

They did the job well but were maintenance intensive and no one ever knew who buckled the wings... SB190 did not exist in the Talair days, but subsequently incresed the type operating costs; for some reason the aluminium used in Islanders appears more prone to corrosion than US aircraft aluminium, particularly in the lower wing skin laminates. There is over 300 Service Bulletins on Islanders, far more than comparable US built aircraft.

The Islander was built (or assembled) in the UK, Romania and the Philippines.

[Exascot]

Flown both piston and turbine dropping parachutists. In the turbine I could T/O get up to 10,000', drop the free fall idiots and be back on the ground before them all in 15 mins. Great aircraft. :ok:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Ah yes, acoustic lift technology..50 skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin...More like 100 of them I'd say.

Put me off flying twins for life, it did! :uhoh:

[haughtney1]

Did about 40 hrs in the BN-2T in the UK dropping meat bombs..great beasty..for doing that.

[tinpis]

They did a good job in PNG...
I skillfully avoided having to fly one...

[Tinstaafl]

I did 800 hours in them in Shetland.

[notmyC150v2]

I flew in a Trislander once. We climbed for 2 hours and then we landed...

[Animalclub]

Did umpteen hours in them as a passenger... nearly ran into the Wall between Tabubil and Telefomin once in one. Beautiful day it was too... so good that the pilot said "I should be paying Junior today" (I kid you not) until we hit that down draft!!!

[boofhead]

Young pilot once took off with both aileron and elevator locks in place (no flags, rusty locks, in a hurry etc) and barely survived. The BN2 pitched up vertical and stalled, he had trimmed forward so it recovered just above the runway, real drama. He flew it back onto the runway using rudder and asy power, very skillful I thought. On the runway he shut down the left engine, jumped out and removed the locks, started up and took off again. He had 9 passengers. None got out when they had the chance. Must have thought it was normal.
The airplane is tough.

[NNB]

after nearly 700hours flying jumpers in one I still look back with have fond memories of the old girl who has since been pressed back into service island hopping with tourists:ok:

[Aye Ess]

My first twin VH-AIA. Like a fella's first girlfriend,solo flight or car,the first twin is always a great joy. I was told VH-AIA was the first BN2 in Australia.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/VH-AIA.jpg?t=1305015759

After a while the company traded it in for another,VH-SQS

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/VH-SQS.jpg?t=1305015840

I was like a dog with two tails. Further along the career path,I scored a job with Bushies flying the Trislander....initially I thought,the islander was SO much fun,the Trislander being 50% bigger would be 50% more fun....OH.HOW.WRONG.I.WAS.

[Stationair8]

Who was the Island distributor in Australia?

[Aye Ess]

Stationair,twas Hawker Pacific. The day I picked up the brand new,just out of the box VH-SQS at Archerfield,the sign writing had just been done & the paint was still tacky. Not many times I got to fly new aeroplanes in my career.

[Jabawocky]

So was that operation also run by the Osbornes?

I went to school with the Osborne boys.......... Have not seen them since.

[Skystar320]

Nice pictures Aye Ess! When did that operation shut down?

[Aye Ess]

Jabawocky....I was Tangalooma's pilot in 1978,so,you would have still been in primary school playing hopscotch with the Osbournes then. Tangalooma had many owners over the years. When I was there it was owned by a group of 6 businessmen from the Gold Coast & Brisbane.

Skystar....in my day we also had Partenavia VH-FAB as well as the BN2. Some time after I moved on,the resort changed hands & the new owners had the a/c put onto Arthur Morris' line,but used for the Tangalooma run. Not sure of the timeline,but,at one stage they had a beaver on floats. Now guests travel by launch,so,I guess the air taxi side is no more.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Didn't the resort also operate the DHA Drover?

[Aye Ess]

Yes,CharlieLima,they operated VH-AZS in the mid 70s. Last I saw of that aircraft was in the museum at Wangaratta over 20 years ago. Don't know where it is now.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Wasn't VH-EQT a 260hp Islander one of the first to be bought into Australia?

[Aye Ess]

That may be true,I was only told that VH-AIA was the first...the rego was for Australian Islander A....subsequent a/c would have been AIB etc,could be a rumour. VH-AIA was a 260hp,and the new one VH-SQS was a 300hp with flaired wingtips & 4 fuel tanks....ah,happy times (sigh)

[Capt Fathom]

How about VH-ISA or ISD.

I was told ISD was demostrated on and off one of HM's Aircraft Carriers. But that may have been just the Salesman's talk! :=

It was that long ago, I doubt any of us can recall exactly... :E

I flew both the 260 & 300hp versions in PNG. While the 300hp had the grunt, I found the 260hp version much nicer to fly (well there's an oxymoron) and easier to operate.

[High 6]

Islander.... nambawan balus or in Oz speak... bloody good airplane!! Have many fun and occasional testing hrs in PNG bush ops and will always remember the magic number that saves ones skin.... 65 kts. :ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

initially I thought,the islander was SO much fun,the Trislander being 50% bigger would be 50% more fun....OH.HOW.WRONG.I.WAS.

Dunno about that Aye Ess. Whilst I cannot comment personally on that; (only ever logged 3 hrs ICUS in one) As I remember the couple of Dz Pilots I worked with who were flying them didn't really seem unhappy with them. Tim E certainly didn't seem to mind flying P2-DNN on the Gulf run if I remember correctly.

21 years ago though so I may be mistaken.:hmm:

[tail wheel]

One of the Douglas Islanders - was it VH-ATO? - won the London to Sydney Air Race around 1968 and carried wording to that effect on the fuselage.

I can only assume it was: the only aircraft in the race; it started in the 1967 race, finishing first in the 1968 race; or had one hell of a handicap. :hmm:

From Wiki - Variants:

BN-2
Prototype first flown in 1966 with two 260 hp Lycoming O-540-E4B5 piston engines.

BN-2A
Production version with minor modification from prototype and increased Takeoff weight.

BN-2A-2
A BN-2A with modified flaps, and two 300 hp Lycoming IO-540-K1B5 (fuel injected) engines.

BN-2A-3
A BN-2A-2 with increased wingspan and fitted with extra wingtip fuel tanks.

BN-2A-6
A BN-2A with wing leading edge modifications and two 260 hp Lycoming O-540-E4C5 engine.

BN-2A-7
A BN-2A-6 with increased wingspan and fuel capacity.

BN-2A-8
A BN-2A-6 with droop flaps.

BN-2A-9
A BN-2A-7 with droop flaps.

BN-2A-10
A BN-2A-8 with increased takeoff weight and 270 hp Lycoming TIO-540-H1A (turbo-charged, fuel injected) engines.

BN-2A-20
A BN-2A-2 with increased takeoff weight and minor improvements.

BN-2A-21
A BN-2A-3 with increased takeoff weight.

BN-2A-23
A BN-2A-21 with lengthened nose.

BN-2A-24
A BN-2A-26 with lengthened nose.

BN-2A-25
A BN-2A-27 with lengthened nose.

BN-2A-26
A BN-2A-8 with increased takeoff weight.

BN-2A-27
A BN-2A-9 with increased takeoff weight.

BN-2A-30
A BN-2A-20 fitted with floats. Twin floats were attached to the undercarriage legs and incorporated retractable landing gear.

BN-2A-41
Turbo Islander with lengthened nose, droop flaps and two Lycoming LTP-101 turboprops, first flown in 1977.

Britten-Norman BN-2B Defender
Defender military variant with 300 hp IO-540-K1B5 engines and underwing hard points and military modifications.

BN-2B-20
A BN-2A-20 with improved soundproofing and increased landing weight and other minor modifications.

BN-2B-21
A BN-2A-21 with Model B improvements.

BN-2B-26
A BN-2A-26 with Model B improvements.

BN-2B-27
A BN-2A-27 with Model B improvements.

A BN-2T at the 2010 Farnborough Airshow

BN-2T
Turbine Islander based on BN-2A-26 with two 320 shp Allison 250-B17C turboprops.

Islander AL.Mk 1
Twin-engined communications, reconnaissance aircraft for the British Army; seven built. Used for aerial reconnaissance and photography in Northern Ireland during Operation Banner. They were part of No. 1 Flight, Army Air Corps and were based at Aldergrove.

Islander CC.Mk 2 and CC.Mk 2A
Twin-engined communications aircraft for the RAF; three operated.

Maritime-Defender
Armed maritime reconnaissance and patrol aircraft.

BN-2A-III Trislander
Three engined Trislander, a stretched BN-2A with 18 seats and three 260 hp Lycoming O-540-E4C5 piston engines.

A float plane version....... :suspect:

"A BN-2A-20 fitted with floats. Twin floats were attached to the undercarriage legs and incorporated retractable landing gear."

[SIUYA]

tail wheel...

A BN-2A-20 fitted with floats. Twin floats were attached to the undercarriage legs and incorporated retractable landing gear.

To see the...'amphibious BN-A'... goto cthornberg's post #3 at:

Float Equipped BN Islander? - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=106240)

:ooh:

I flew Islanders in PNG in the 70's with Macair in PNG. All I can say after looking at the picture referred to above is...thank Christ Macair didn't have this variant!

[Tenmen]

The aircraft that won the air race was VH-ATX. Did many Kiunga to Ningrum shuttles at the start of the OkTedi exploration in it.

BN2's were great at what they were designed to do - short hops to short runways. Great fun in PNG.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Please tell me that float equipped Islander never actually flew - imagine the state of the wing skins between the engine nacelle and the fuse after a water landing - woulda made the ripples people put in them in PNG look undetectable.

[Oakape]

Mount Cook Airlines experimented with ski equipped Islanders for a while. I am told that the main gear legs kept cracking due to the stresses experienced when landing on snow & they eventally gave up with it.

This article in the November 1974 Flight International mentions them, although it says that the operation was satisfactory -

1974 | 1829 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1974/1974%20-%201829.html)

Maybe someone can shed more light on the matter.

I can only imagine that the stress of water take-offs & landings would be much greater than on snow.

[Oakape]

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/chrislizt/Wilton1-1.jpg

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/chrislizt/Wilton2-1.jpg

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/chrislizt/Wilton3-1.jpg

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/chrislizt/Wilton4-1.jpg

Wilton parachute ops. I don't know the exact date, but it would be between the middle of 1983 & the end of 1984.

[waveskimmer]

Only 200+hrs flying them ,fond memories,great machine :ok:

[baron_beeza]

Yep, fond memories.

I have been both engineer and pilot on Islanders and Trislanders, often in some strange and out of the way places.

I am sure the Wiki list posted earlier is incomplete or inaccurate.The prototype had Continental engines. The most common aircraft are the -26 and -27 260 hp variants. Then the -20 and -21 300 hp versions, the tip tanks being the other difference.
The Trislander came in 3 flavours also, - the obvious one being the long and short nose varieties but also the FAA certified version with auto-feather.

For those that have flown the Islander and remember 65 Kts as being THE figure.... Then it it is much the same with the Trislander. Problem being you now have yet another number to memorise... 80Kts.

I have been to the factory in Bembridge but the Islander was also produced in other places about the place, - I think South America and Asia.

[RadioSaigon]

I have been to the factory in Bembridge but the Islander was also produced in other places about the place, - I think South America and Asia...

the Philippines and Romania....

[baron_beeza]

Thanks RS, I was firing from the hip and knew I was going to get mixed up with the Piper production. Or perhaps even VW..


I have flown a Philipines one, and I am guessing most of the newer ones were made in Romania and then flown to Bembridge for the remainder of the finishing work.

[tail wheel]

Four actually - one rocket assisted....... :}

BN-2A Mk III-1
First production version, with short nose.

BN-2A Mk III-2
Lengthened nose and higher operating weight.

BN-2A Mk III-3
Variant certified for operation in the United States. Fitted with 3 blade propellers on the front two engines.

BN-2A Mk III-4
III-2 fitted with 350lb rocket-assisted takeoff equipment.

Trislander M
Proposed military version, not built.

[RadioSaigon]

I am guessing most of the newer ones were made in Romania and then flown to Bembridge for the remainder of the finishing work...

Correct.

...and I'm thinking we have probably both flown the tip-tank airframe you refer to also... FLU, if memory serves ;) She climbed like a homesick angel -for an Islander!

Although my favourite was always FWZ... the oldest; MCN in the 200's from memory (269 is the number ringing in my mind?) and reputed to have the highest recorded number of landings of any Islander ever built at that time, c.1996.

EDIT: and now that you mention VW's, was yours the old 1500, blue if memory serves? Mine was the white 1302S, CX 321.

[baron_beeza]

Thanks for that.. hmmm. - has anyone actually seen a -3 Trislander with 3 bladed props ?
I have never come across one.

I believe most here that have flown the BN2 will recall the tacho, and it's issues. It derrives it's signal from the reduntant points in the magnetos..... that same signal is used via the 2500rpm speed sensor box to initiate the autofeather on the FAA certified machines. (the -3).
I have never flown one but it sounds scary...... you may have dirty points and all of a sudden the prop is going on you.

I had to fix one Islander that had the prop go into feather during slow cruise. Luckily I remembered that the governors were different on wide deck engines, - sure enough that was the problem.
I only learned that from doing the Trislander course with Aurigny in the Channel Islands. One of those occasions when a little knowledge helped the fault finding immensely.

Going back to the Military variant, I can recall a proposal to have a bigger version with 3 Darts powering it.
I kid you not.


Mainlander

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/simmie_bucket/Mainlander1.jpg

[fencehopper]

Grahem Hill owned 4 or 5 Islanders during the early '80s. Fixed & Rotary out of camden did a lot of work on them.
I jumped all of them. Thankfully i just missed a slot on ISI when it lost the right engine at about 100' after take off. was climbing and doing OK until the pilot turned back. Written off and only minor injuries to jumpers.
Pilot was ejected thru the door about 20 meters and a statlic line student followed and went between the collasping gear leg and fuse as canopy was deploying. Made for an exciting afternoon. At a later date one failed to become airborne and sailed off the end of the strip and over a dirt road and taking the nose gear off. I later found the parking break still on.
Another sad incident was when the DZ caretaker walked into the prop.
For the day they where a great jumpship. just don't stall them at height with everyone packed up in the door. They will do three or four turns and lose a couple thousand feet before they start to recover. had a chance to do a little flying in them. Liked the 65kts for everything bit. Filled a couple of pages for my SOE.
FH

[RadioSaigon]

Another sad incident was when the DZ caretaker walked into the prop...

I doubt there's an Islander pilot (or a good number of pax!) that haven't walked into a horizontal blade!!! That's how you learn the importance of doing a mag dead-cut check before shut-down... so you can pull the props thru to vertical in confidence & safety ;)

[Avturbound]

Passengers' mid-air terror - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583122)

[Biggles78]

Thanks for that.. hmmm. - has anyone actually seen a -3 Trislander with 3 bladed props
Got an image of one that has 3 blade on the mains but a 2 blade on the spare. Has the words: aurigny.com and rego G-JOEY on the side.

I got it from Jetphoto.net so I don't think I can post it here due to copyrite. Will need to find the link or you can PM me for more info.

[tpad]

Was anyone else " King Of The Jungles " ??

Back in '73/74 I was working for Aerial Tours ( Malarial Spewers ) out of POM
in the loved/hated Broom Broom. We had about 12 of the species at the time.

Fate dictated that I was route endorsed by " Captain Trembles " on five ****ty wee strips on the southern side of the Owen Stanleys, known with no affection as " The Jungles " Kagi, Efogi, Manumu, Menari, Naoro.

Trade-store goods in - Mandarins, Natives, and all associated paraphenalia out.

Pilot turn-over was soooo high at the time I got stuck doing these places, mostly every Saturday, for eight months without relief. ( Well that's a lie ... a slab of Carlton Draught for $6 every Friday night after the Dero, set me up quite nicely thanks nurse ).

Taught me a hell of a lot about everything really. Flying, W/X, strips, surviving, fear ( and how to deal with it ), drinking ( yeah man ... still doing that.)

Anyway, at the heart of it all, the ( 260 HP ) Bongo. We did things with that sucker that would have made messrs Britten and Norman send for more drycleaning.

Love it or hate it, The Broom Broom was at least a safe twin to fly in some extremely ****ty situations. VMCA below the stall speed. Very good ( loaded) STOL. Very forgiving for a 400 hour CPL.

Noisy, uncomfortable, heavy on the controls ... yeah, all those things.

Would I still be alive in another type of machine ? Yeah well maybe a Tin Otter.

Thanks Biscuit Ears ( No thanks Trevor )

Regards Tpad

This post was chardonnay assisted .... I'll deny everything.

[baron_beeza]

Got an image of one that has 3 blade on the mains but a 2 blade on the spare. Has the words: aurigny.com and rego G-JOEY on the side

Yes, that will be correct. there are Trislanders about with 3 bladed props on the wing engines. That is just a recent innovation though and was not part of the Type Certification. JOEY is a -2 and not a -3 aircraft... It also had two bladed props back in the early 90's when I last saw it.

I am sure the Wikipedia entry is incorrect, - the FAA certified -3 variant had auto-feather, but the props back then were all two bladed I am pretty sure.

I saw a Wikaya Air Islander in Fiji in the mid 90's with factory fitted 3 bladed props. I think that is about the time the mod or STC would have gained a little popularity.

I think only about 78 Trislanders were produced and for a while there it seemed like every country I went to had them, up through the Pacific, about Africa and even the couple in Aussie.. Aurigny would have been the biggest fleet though.. They must have had close to 10 aircraft there at one point.

I think an outfit down in Florida had a sizeable fleet at one stage, again I am not sure how many would have been -3 models though. I am thinking very few BN2-A Mk III-3 were certified.

[fencehopper]

Anyone know what happened to the three Trilander airframes that turned up at Camden. They were partially built and came from Florida. There was also some tooling as well. I believe the factory shut down and the remaining parts and airframes went to a new owner in The USA but they never got off the docks in Florida. They sat there for a few years then ended up at Camden. One was being assembled then i think Fixed and Rotary went bust.
FH

[Hogg]

Love the Islander, great machine. It was my first commercial job, with Aer Arann to Mor Meain or Oirr.
Flew them from Grenada West Indies for a year and abit for a great fun carrier there. Longest sector was 50 minutes, shortest about 5 min 12 i got it down too!
Was on one recently on the lash on Aran. Great memories. Much better fun than a B763.

[baron_beeza]

hmmmmm, now you have me thinking....
I have done a very fast sector in an Islander,- one airport to another. I know they are not the fastest of machines but this transit had to be less than 2 minutes.
I am not sure we even raised the flaps... it is literally a pop-up and pop back down.

2.6 miles, even in an Islander, is not far at all.
Fun machines..

[Tinstaafl]

Westray-Papa Westray in Orkney is scheduled for 4 mins. I've done it in that time or a bit less when I was doing my line training with Loganair. Out Skerries-Whalsay in Shetland is 6 mins usually. I've done it in 4 with a decent wind.

[tail wheel]

Anyone recall the 90 second flight sector in PNG? Think is was in the Kabwum area?

[Aye Ess]

Tinstaafl,there was a story going around that Loganair could land the islander in reverse such is the headwind so strong on landing. Fact or fiction?

[tinpis]

Torres, Kabwum, Pindu, and Mindik be all close to that.

[baron_beeza]

There are certainly some very short sectors about for the Islanders then. I remember the Nadi - Musket Cove trip was only a few minutes... I think it was the region of 5 minutes.. depending.

My one was nothing special, I was doing circuits off 30 at Omaka when I got a message that I was required at Woodbourne, pre cell-phone days... the message was relayed to me via the Tower. A clearance to land Runway 28 was included in the exchange.. :)

By the time I had reached 500 ft on climbout and acquired Runway 28 visually I was in a finals postion. It literally just seemed like seconds.

I can see we will be starting a new thread soon on fastest circuits....

[tinpis]

I can see we will be starting a new thread soon on fastest circuits....

The pointy jet jocks will win :rolleyes:

[HarleyD]

Woodbourne RW 10 departure for Omaka RW 12 arrival. about 1 minute airbourne.

Not in a bongo, but a single engine type of similar size and capacity.

plenty of BN2's rotting away a bit further south but.

HD

[DBTW]

It is wonderful that this sturdy little aeroplane can draw so much attention after more than 45 years of manufacture. Obviously there will always be protagonists and antagonists for any product, the level of positive support impresses me for the Islander.

What antagonists are failing to understand is that the Islander was manufactured to fill a specific niche market. That is, multi-engine short duration legs over water or other inhospitable terrain, into and out of short, poorly prepared strips. The aeroplane design concept was very much in line with that other uniquely British product, the LandRover. Both are designed to be solid, like a brick outhouse, and to carry a tonne where others cannot go.

Over 1200 Islanders have been manufactured since 1965. In that time there have been many thousands of modifications. The aeroplanes have been largely custom built for individual owners, so that means there are effectively over 1200 different model Islanders. Most of the modifications relate to only one aircraft. The way the Type Certificate holder designs each mod means that most of the mods could go onto any aircraft, even as an after market addition. In choosing such a path, the design of the Islander has grown in an evolutionary manner, rather than revolutionary. Mods that pop the design up into another niche have been largely avoided because there are other aircraft already servicing those areas. Progress has meant that whilst every Islander is a little different, any Islander is recognisable and flyable by someone with Islander knowledge and experience. So far, no one has managed a design that better suits the Islanders niche than the original Britten Norman.

Specifically note that BN, as a small manufacturer has chosen the evolutionary design change through modification path because large mod or design changes are simply too expensive to be supported by the small volume of sales.

On different model designations, these are usually a change to the base line mod state. The latest model available is the BN2C-300. It comes with an additional row of passenger windows, 3 bladed scimitar props and some other improvements over the BN2B-20 mod state.

The 3 bladed Hartzell straight props have been available for a long time. These allow much smoother and quieter operations over the traditional 2 bladed props. The scimitar 3 bladed props allow a further reduction of noise levels by enabling the achievement of full power at 70 RPM less than the older models. With either mod now available, I am surprised any Islander has 2 bladed props.

The third row of passenger windows is a recent innovation whereby a properly incorporated and reinforced mod is added in a primary structure area of the fuselage. An older FAA STC third row window is not considered safe by the type certificate holder because the STC designer did not have factory backing or calculations when cutting the holes. IE in all probability, the older STC aircraft have written off fuselages...

The BN2T is a specific model option with an alternative engine. The idea being that not everybody can source avgas easily, and not everybody is happy with piston engine reliability. BN2T fuel flows are around 170 litres per hour versus say 120 litres per hour for a BN2B-20. With the same amount of fuel on board, clearly turbines will have slightly less range than the piston, but in most instances, people will not be using their Islanders outside the above mentioned niche. In that niche, turbine Islanders, due to the much lighter engines and the significantly higher maximum all up weight, can carry more into and out of the destination airfields.

In the surveillance or special mission role, turbine engines offer greater flexibility in terms of speed and altitude, and very long endurance/loiter times coupled with much smoother and quieter operations. IE the turbine engine is magnitudes quieter than the piston models.

On corrosion inspections, when operating at low level over water, or in inhospitable tropical climates, all aeroplanes will suffer from corrosion. BN introduced a service bulletin to ensure proper inspection, detection and treatment every other year for aeroplanes over 5 years old. Not performing the inspection ensures high levels of corrosion and associated expensive repairs. I suppose the point I am making is that the SB 190 was introduced because the aeroplanes live for so long in a corrosive environment. That doesn't mean the design is wrong or the metal is easily corroded, just that all aeroplanes will corrode and BN has an inspection to help minimise the problem and to reduce the cost of repairs. It is an ongoing project to have the SB absorbed into the normal maintenance manual.

I will not comment on ergonomics because custom built aircraft are designed to order, so you can hardly blame a designer for poor ergonomics if it is what the customer wanted.

In this modern day of product liability, whilst many people want to innovate and make suggestions for improvements, people must understand that the type certificate holder has to spend money on any re-design or modification. This can be prohibitively expensive for a small manufacturer. BN prides itself on satisfying the needs of customers, and most new modifications are therefore derived from new aircraft buyers. IE older aircraft owners may usually fit new mods after market, and they often don't have to pay much of the design costs associated. If these owners want something specific, the designers will do it, but they cannot do it for free. NB: the point I made earlier that most mods are specific to a single aircraft, so there is often no way of offsetting development costs by selling the mod on to other operators.

The Trislander is simply 2 Islander fuses joined together with a bigger wing and tail plane. It was considered innovative in its day, but I wonder why people would not add flexibility to their operations by using 2 Islanders. In the latter case, the purchase price would be less and the operating cost of having 3 more undercarriage legs and one more engine could be offset by carrying the 2 more passenger seats...just a thought?

I hope this adds to the conversation? I have enjoyed many an hour in many an Islander. While they are not a jet fighter, they are an aeroplane that serves a purpose. For people who operate Islanders there is usually no other choice. Not even a PAC750XL can go everywhere an Islander goes.

[Two_dogs]

Heard a classic regarding Islanders the other day ...

Cathay jet inbound to Cairns. Islander outbound.

BN CEN...Cathay 123. Limit descent to 10 thousand, traffic is a BN2, 12 O' clock, 15 Nm, 9 thousand, do you have the traffic on TCAS?

Cathay 123 ... BN CEN, Negative on the TCAS, but don't worry, we can hear him coming!

[hoopdreams]

BN CEN...Cathay 123. Limit descent to 10 thousand, traffic is a BN2, 12 O' clock, 15 Nm, 9 thousand, do you have the traffic on TCAS?

Cathay 123 ... BN CEN, Negative on the TCAS, but don't worry, we can hear him coming!

:DLove it!

[frangatang]

The aurigny trislanders are still chugging around the channel islands in pommieland and have been since l finished my ppl in Guernsey in 1975.

[Wallace and Grommit]

Just to confirm an earlier posting.... The BN2 construction list does indeed show VH-AIA as being the first registered in Australia.

It was construction number 15 and was delivered on the 15 March 1968 to Island Airways. Later transferred to Tangalooma Air Taxis in 1978.

In 1979 it was re-registered H4-AAH with Solair. Then P2-ISR with Transniugini Airways in 1991.

It was written off on 24 December 1993 at Mount Hagen-Kagamuga Airport PNG.

[Aye Ess]

Thank you Wallace & Gromit. All these years since 1978 when I flew it,I'd always wondered if it was just urban myth about it being the first.

Sad that it was written off. My first twin. :{

[Stationair8]

Didn't the marketing people at BN, have a film made showing an Islander taking off with an engine shutdown and prop feathered?

[RadioSaigon]

Didn't the marketing people at BN, have a film made showing an Islander taking off with an engine shutdown and prop feathered?

I'll bet they only narrowly missed disappearing up their own rectum in the execution of!!!

But yeah I have heard rumour of such... still, it would need a fair bit of room going 'round in circles before getting fast enough for the rudder to became effective enough to hold her straight against the asymmetric thrust. If you ever do find that video, be sure to post it for us all to see!!!

[Capt Fathom]

Stationair8.

You're not thinking of the prototype Aero Commander are you?

In 1950, when the developers were working to satisfy CAA regulations for certification of the 500, they chose a novel method of demonstrating its single-engine safety and performance:
they removed one of the two-bladed propellers, secured it in the aft cabin, and flew from Bethany to Washington D.C. on one engine.
There they met with CAA personnel, then replaced the propeller and returned to Oklahoma in the conventional manner. The flight received nationwide coverage in the press

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/7271.jpg

[Stationair8]

No it was definitely a BN-2.

The black and white photo was in a magazine called Aircraft which was published in the late 60's.

Didn't a BN-2 compete in the 1969 London to Sydney air race?

[tail wheel]

Stationair

Refer Post # 54 and # 56.

I suspect it started in the 1968 race, finishing first in 1969 and no one noticed... :E

[Givelda]

My first job in aviation in '75 was to sit right seat on a Burnett Airways Trislander in Brisbane, because the rumour at the time was they couldn't make an autopilot work on the thing and the only way they could fly it IFR was to put a second bod on board who had at least a radio operators licence. I was actually over qualified as I also had a Private Pilots Licence.

I actually spent most of my time in flight trying to sync the engines by method (1) - fiddling with the blue pitch levers or method (2 - by using my fingernail to align the didlly little rpm indications so that at least the numbers were all the same.

We also went hi-tech in Burnett Airways and provided "inflight entertainment" (to alleviate the mind numbing engine noise) with a car cartridge player (clunky sort of cassette player) and it was my job to change the tapes over in flight and to make sure no one nicked off with the headsets at each turn around. Apart from removing the numerous sick bags...

Apart from using the wings to hang bits on like engines and undercart, for Bn-2 and BN-3 alike, the main purpose, according to another rumour, was to transmit the noise and vibration from the engines to the wings, which in turn caused the air molecules to vibrate apart and thereby cause a lower pressure which created lift for the purpose of flying. That is why the designer(s) didn't bother with aerodynamic refinements like dihedral on the wings.

They were dangerous too. Many the time I banged my head on the balance thing that hung off the ailerons and one day, shortly after landing and doing a casual walk around, I managed to get a 4th degree burn by draping my arm over the machine gun sized pitot tube that hung from the lower wing surface and which was still being heated because"someone" forgot to turn the pitot heater switch off.

It was also very possible, due to a tendency to be afflicted with carby ice, to have the engines stop at inopportune times. This was very tricky on take-off and we had a light to tell us if the fin engine had stopped vibrating the hell out of the fin structure and a nice Morris Minor type rear vision mirror attached to the windscreen post to provide backup confirmation. I can remember someone taking off from Hervey Bay one winter's morning and carrying out a full runway length "inspection" because the rear donk thought it a touch too cold and quit.

One other memory was taking off from Brisbane early one morning during an airline strike with a load of Courier Mail Newspapers and using all almost all off runway 22 to become airborne. We later discovered after a protracted climb, that the manifest of papers had been presented to us in a new fangled thing called kilograms and so we had about 2.2 times more on board then we had originally planned on.

I later flew the Islander and loved it - especially since it involved flying young females to Great Keppel island to "Get Wrecked" as the TAA advertising slogan put it. By the look of many that took the return trip after a week or so on the island, many achieved just that ......

And so to a few (rather poor quality) photos...

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h349/andyinsing/TrislanderVH-BSPsml02.jpg?t=1306765933

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h349/andyinsing/TrislanderVH-BSPsml01.jpg?t=1306766863

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h349/andyinsing/TrislanderVH-BSPsml.jpg?t=1306766986

[Wallace and Grommit]

Another somewhat poor photo taken by a lot younger "Wallace and Grommit".

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk439/wapco/DSC00091.jpg

Taken in July 1965 featuring c/n 01, G-ATCT at Bembridge, Isle of Wight UK.

Note the early Continental engines (210hp I believe) which were removed very quickly and replaced with the 260hp Lycomings. Also note the thinner undercarriage leg fairings that were redesigned about a year later.

[Aye Ess]

Givelda,here is VH-BSP in Bushies colours I would guess around late 1970s.I flew the Bushies Trislanders (sleds).They were excellent fuel to noise converters.http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/22TrilanderVH-BSP.jpg?t=1306789172 Thanks to B.Mckinnon for the piccy.

[Torres]

I think BSP ended up with Murchison Relines in Perth. As far away from me as possible.

Here is a Trislander being recycles into pots, pans and beer cans:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/PPRuNe/AirMelTrislander.jpg

[Givelda]

As well as VH-BSP, Burnett Airways also had BN-3, VH-BSG.
BSP was purchased to start a new Reg 203 run down to Stanthorpe and Warwick, but foggy winter weather and low loads soon sealed the fate of the company and then it went onto Bushies. So Burnett Airway became "Burntout Airways" when it shutdown in late 75 or early 76. The last I know of BSP, was in 2000 at Essenden.
I think BSG was lost near Canberra but I am unsure if that was so.
And the BN-2, I flew on "missions" to Great Keppel in 1979 was VH-SYU for Country Air, Rocky.
I recall during my endorsement by Peter Bad...y of Air Pacific fame, being shown max rate turns at just above the stall with one engine shut down.
It also flew quite well with the external aileron gust lock in, as I discovered one day.. but that is another story!

[Aye Ess]

Thanks Givelda,good history. Bushies did operate an islander for a while VH-BPV. The Trislanders were VH-BSP,BPH,BGS (yes,correct rego,) & BPB.The 1st 3 regos were short nose models but BPB was the long nose (nose locker). There was only ever 2 long nose varieties on the Aust register. The other one was VH-EGU operated by Eagle Airways at Bankstown. It met a sad end one night over the southern highlands of NSW. From memory it picked up a lot of ice & gravity took over. A freighter with 2 pob.

[Givelda]

Thanks Aye Ess,
I remember BGS for the very reason of it's similar rego. I used to see it and all the other Bushies aircraft on regular trips "up North" after I got a job with another company with a blue paint scheme a few years later.
And that was obviously the incident I remember regarding a Trislander being lost in NSW. I know they didn't fly all that well in cold wet, icy conditions - having to use full carby heat for the donks and no anti-icing gear on the wings, etc. didn't help if you were unfortunate enough to get into that situation :sad:. Wonder what happened to BSG?

[zlin77]

I was lucky like Givelda to fly VH-SYU on The Keppel Island run with Country Air.....possibly the best BN 2 sector in OZ, 20 minute flight time, generally good weather and some of the most attractive passengers a Young Zlin could wish for, not to mention many free buffet lunches on the turnaround:)

[Aye Ess]

Givelda,I just did a quick search & I see VH-BSG crashed at Annaberg PNG,17 Nov 1980,4 killed & a/c written off.:(

[Torres]

The last I know of BSP, was in 2000 at Essenden.

I think you are correct - it was being used to uplift live crayfish from Tasmania.

What was the registration of the other Trislander previously owned by Cape York Air and sold to Murchison Relines in Perth? I'm sure the registration was not in the BS_ series?

The two Cape York Air Trislanders came drom Douglas Airways who obviously acquired them from Bush Pilots.

[Stationair8]

Were new Islanders flown out to Australia, or put into a container and shipped?

Pretty remarkable aeroplane when you consider in Australia, it has operated into Bathurst Harbour in SW Tassie, Rottnest Island shuttle in Perth, Ord Air in the Kimberlies, Airnorth in Darwin, Talair in PNG, coastwatch with National Jet and all the operaters in the Torres Strait.

Even more remarkable when in been operated in the Falkland Islands, Orkney Islands, Africa, Europe, North America and South America.

[anakid]

I flew VH-ATZ in PNG early 70's, it had signage down the fuse indicating that it had won the London to Sydney air race.
And from pprune 2007....

David Eyre
17th Dec 2007, 22:29
Three Islanders competed in the race:

G-AXUD - Race no. 72 (manufacturer's serial number 132) flown by W. J. Bright and F. L. Buxton. This aircraft won the race. On 9 Feb 1970, it became VH-ATZ with Aerial Tours Pty Ltd of New Guinea. It was later re-registered as P2-ATZ, and joined Douglas Airways, before being cancelled from the register.

VH-ATV - Race no. 112 (msn 100) of Aerial Tours Pty Ltd, Port Moresby, New Guinea. Previously test flown in UK as G-51-35, before becoming VH-ATV on 15 Sep 1969 with Aerial Tours. Later registered P2-ATV with Douglas Airways, P2-DNV (Douglas Airways), P2-SAB (Sepik Air Charter), P2-ALE (Airlink Ltd), before being cancelled from the register.

G-AXSN - Race no. 68 (msn 81) entered by The Hon Hugh Astor, Southamptonstead, Berks. This was previously test flown as G-51-22 before becoming N870JA then G-AXSN. After the race it went through a series of registrations, becoming VH-ROV, P2-ROV, P2-PAA, P2-ISM (North Coast Aviation), H4-AAI (not taken up), P2-ISS, YJ-RV6, VH-CSU. VH-CSU is still registered with Lip-Air in Cairns-North, Queensland.
Regards,
David Eyre


Cheers Kid

[Pinky the pilot]

VH-ATV - Race no. 112 (msn 100) of Aerial Tours Pty Ltd, Port Moresby, New Guinea. Previously test flown in UK as G-51-35, before becoming VH-ATV on 15 Sep 1969 with Aerial Tours. Later registered P2-ATV with Douglas Airways, P2-DNV (Douglas Airways), P2-SAB (Sepik Air Charter, P2-ALE (Airlink Ltd), before being cancelled from the register.

P2-SAB was with Simbu Aviation, not Sepik Air Charter.

[Aye Ess]

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/BPABN3PLM.jpg?t=1307439442

All this Islander/Trislander talk inspired me to produce this painting of BN3 VH-BPB operated by BPA (Bushies) in a colour scheme of the early 1980s.The painting is 30cm x 60cm acrylic on stretched canvas.

The airstrip is Palm Island off Townsville & at that time the surface was 'natural'. That means naturally boggy in the wet season & naturally dirt & dust in the dry season.

The island is an indigenous community & during the dry season when the strip was dry chaff the indigens would set fire to the runway (Why? Beats me).
Anyhoo,the fire would take about a week to smoulder from one end to the other. Didn't stop a/c movements, as the flame front was only a few millimetres high, but did create a sooty cloud behind departing aeroplanes.

[Tenmen]

Ah, the "Tristar", wern't so bad on the short hops to Palm or Dunk. Night freight Brisbane to Cairns via Emerald and Townville - now that's another matter.

[Aye Ess]

Tenmen. I didn't know they did BN-CS via EML &TL !!! Flipping heck that IS a long flight. In my day they serviced Lizard Is,Cooktown,Cairns,Dunk,Palm Island,Townsville,Proserpine,Bowen,Shute Harbour,Mackay & Brampton Island.

The worst were the returning Palm Island football team. They were tanked up on firewater,hadn't had showers,crammed into the Trislander,OAT 40deg, humidity 100%.....and held at the holding point with no ventilation.....(ooh,scuse me I'm feeling a bit ill)

[tail wheel]

Night freight Brisbane to Cairns via Emerald and Townville - now that's another matter.

And how many nights did each trip take? :confused:

[Tenmen]

Roster was, day 1: Dept CNS 1700 via IFL, then TSV EML, arr BNE about midnight, leave the aircraft to someone else, and off to the pub. 24 hr rest. Next night sign on at midnight for a 0100 dept back nort same route, arriving CNS about 0800.

This lasted about 2 months and then the Metro's took over.

[Exascot]

I was para dropping at Weston on the Green in G-WOTG turbine islander. I believe it was the first of its type to have a sliding door fitted so the loonies could leap out. The exit point of the day from 10,000' was over the town of Bicester. The system was that the Jump Master (JM) would slide the door forward onto a catch and after the 'passengers' had jumped out the pilot would pull a release handle and the door would slide back into place with the airflow. I pulled the handle but the door didn't go into place. Neither was it along side the cockpit where it rested when open. The stop had broken and it had carried on along the rails straight off the aircraft to follow the parachutists down. It floated down like a leaf. It was such a good spot by the JM that instead of landing in Bicester high street it landed right in the middle of the DZ - undamaged. We replaced the stop, fitted the door back on and continued operations. :cool:

[Avionker]

Ah good old G-WOTG. Took off in it 6 times, never landed in it once....

[Exascot]

Ah good old G-WOTG. Took off in it 6 times, never landed in it once....

Excellent aircraft, I flew it from new. Great thing about the turbine was no cylinder head temperatures to worry about. T/O to 10,000' and back on the ground in 15 mins to load another bunch of nutters. :cool:

[Avionker]

Never made it up to 10,000. All my exits were at 2,500 I seem to remember.

I was on a sports parachute course there, summer of '89. We had a WRAF officer on the course, who was around 5 foot nothing tall and probably weighed about 5 stone when wet. On our first jump of the course she was the first out off the door on the first pass. I was last out off the aircraft, and I passed her on the way down. I arrived in roughly the right area, on the airfield at any rate, as did almost everyone else.

She on the other hand drifted away into the distance and landed, if memory serves correctly, in the exercise yard of the local kennels. Apparently the residents weren't very happy about the "gatecrasher" and expressed their displeasure quiet vociferously. Never got a chance to get the story first hand, as we were one course member short from that point on, at her own request I should point out.

No sense of adventure some people.....

[Torres]

Pinky

P2-SAB was with Simbu Aviation, not Sepik Air Charter.

Understandable error. The original P2-SAB was a Cessna 402, ex Sepik Air Charter, acquired by Talair and ended it's life in the Ramu River, immortalised in the poem "The Man From Ramu River" (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/352984-i-miss-png-2.html).

[QDMQDMQDM]

I'm sitting here opposite the daughter of the actual designer of the Islander (my wife's father). Her father was R.E. "Dickie" Bird and he was formerly Chief Designer at Auster Aircraft. His title at BN, where he was seconded from Miles Aircraft, was Chief Technical Executive, but it was he who conceived and designed the prototype and steered it into production and we have those original drawings framed. He just never got the credit for it, which irks somewhat.

He was also responsible for the Auster AOP9 and a number of other aircraft, but the Islander was obviously the most successful.

He died last year, but would be very happy to see you all discussing his beloved Islander in this way as it soldiers on so many years later.

QDM

[Pinky the pilot]

Thanks Torres. Thought that may have been the case.

BTW, did they ever find that 402?

[Torres]

Not in my time (to 1985), despite searches, dragging grappling irons etc.

But I've heard unconfirmed rumours it has since been found?

[bob johns]

Is that.Tin Lid from f---n ..Kiunga or Cranky Franky or Ghastly all in broom broom drivers olsem balus bilong biscuit ears. And VH ATZ was the London SYD air race winner I. saw it arrive at BK on the day and flew it a lot when based in .Daru late 73 to mid 74 when I.came to my senses and joined Macair in Lae, then Mendi until Talair joined me until retrenched in 76. H von .****nickers didn't like troops who told him to get stuffed at 1630 when the WX had clagged in and 50 cases of tinned mackerel had to go to Kopiago Bloody Kraut had no sense of humour.

[Two_dogs]

Heard another classic this week at Horn Island.

All stations Horn, ABC, an Islander, 25 Nm NNW, left 4000, Horn Island ... Next Week :E

[bob johns]

.How unkind of you Two dogs bloody funny though.It reminds me of the time a Sydney radio station had as a prize in a quiz,an hours flight over the city, then some smart alec went and donated a second prize of a two hour flight over the city in an Islander

[de_pilot]

Just got to love the aircraft. ANyone knows of any BN2A for sale in the caribbean or south america?

Depilot

[sirBruno]

best would be with full de-iceing, IFR, long-range tanks. But offcourse I will not find that. So does anybody know were is a BN-2B for sale?
Europe prefered but if we get a good one we would pick it up everywhere.

[Flying Mechanic]

There's a few Trislanders for sale in the Philipines, still some life left in them.

[601]

VH-AIA was the first in OZ.

After it left Island Airways in Hervey Bay, it was operated by UnionAir/IslandAir for Tangalooma Air. EER also did that run.

UnionAir/IslandAir operated at various stages RUT, EER, AIA and a Trislander that was sold to an outfit in Cessnock.

One (RUT?) had a door cut into the tailcone so long logging tools could be loaded into the cabin.

A crew change run from TWB to Moomba in winter was an all day affair.

One of the best trips I ever did was from Mooree to TWB at night with a full moon. Just climbed to first available cruising altitude above LSALT and turned the cockpit light down. Magic:ok:

[RedhillPhil]

I flew VH-ATZ in PNG early 70's, it had signage down the fuse indicating that it had won the London to Sydney air race.
And from pprune 2007....




Cheers Kid

I'm so old that I can remember when signage was signs:)

[Aye Ess]

601....I put a piccy of VH-AIA at post #40. The Cessnock Trislander,was in 1979,and I think the company was SOPAC .....what that stands for,I don't know,but the service didn't last long. Probably gave the NASA boys a thrill though.

[601]

Aye Ess
Falcon & Sopac Aviation Pty Ltd trading as Fast Airways.

[Aye Ess]

Thanx 601....strange calling the name Fast, when they operated a Trislander....there ain't nothin' fast about a trislander.

Unionair/Islandair also had Islanders VH-ICL and VH-EQK. One of which was written off in an 'incident' at Maryborough me thinks.....your thoughts?

[601]

Aye Ess

I remember FAST supposedly having a brake fire not long after they bought it. I seem to remember that it had smaller Islander brakes - I could be wrong on that.

Opps, I had forgotten about EQK and ICL.

EQK was damaged 31 March 1978.

No info on the ATSB but is listed in ASN Aircraft accident Britten-Norman BN-2A Islander VH-EQK (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780331-0)

There is an enter in a listing for Islanders and Trislanders at Gatwick for VH-EQK Islander (146) showing that it belonged to Mount Isa Copying & Charter Service 24/01/70.

As far as ICL is concerned, I will have to dig deeper into my brain cells.

[Aye Ess]

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/VH-EQK084.jpg?t=1356604023

[kimwestt]

If my memory is correct, from the late eighties or early nineties, there is an Islander still at bottom of King Sound, off Derby (YDBY), some young bloke beat up a boat and dipped a wingtip in. Apparently survived sans one hand thanks to quick thinking boat driver.
:O

[Josh Cox]

Torres is correct, BSP went to Murchison Relines, it was based at YPKG, apparently they have sold it.

I have flown the Islander and the Trislander, both awesome machines.

The Trislander does not have the same short field abilities as the Islander.

Both VNE at the speed of stink.

[Rotor Work]

Not related to Australia but I noticed there is an Islander missing in Venezuela, its first flight was 11th - 4th - 1968 :sad:

ASN Aircraft accident Britten-Norman BN-2A-27 Islander YV2615 between Los Roques and Caracas (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20130104-0)

[NNB]

VH-RUT (BN2A) lives on.
From the mid 80's she went to Commando Skydivers at Pakenham (Vic) where I logged some 680 hrs in her flying jumpers. The initial SB-190 inspection brought her undone for jumping and she was sold to SeaAir on the Gold Coast where she joined two other Islanders and a pair of C208s flying pax and supplies out to Lady Elliot Island.
A fantastic work horse if you are shown how to make them "sing" by a knowledgeable Islander driver..!
blue ones
NNB:D

[dickie110]

Hi, does anyone have a BN2A-26 W&B spreadsheet model I could have a play with? Thank you :O

[frangatang]

Aagh, Aurigny, Trislander, Guernsey- Alderney, below 1000, and CliMB to land(VFR)!

[NNB]

PM me and I'll email you an excel spread sheet that was adapted for PJE Ops
cheers

[BN2T Islander Pilot]

I am holding a current Indian ATPL on Islander BN2T. As per Indian regulations I am required to renew my licence by undergoing a flying skill test / realistic simulator test.

Can you guide me ... where can I under go this Skill test ?

Thanks

[troppo]

http://images.watoday.com.au/2009/04/29/495756/weetbix.jpg

scary

[601]

CASA have VH-RUT as manufactured in 1970 and first registered in Australia: 22 August 1985.
I believe that this is incorrect as I flew a new VH-RUT in June 1970.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Is that the ONLY islander ever to have held that registration?.

VH-PNW for example has appeared on more than one partybus/vulcanair.

[AussieO2]

There is only one RUT, first registered on 22.05.1970 thru to being withdrawn from use on 14.07.1983. It returned to the register on 22.08.1985. Serial number 165. Richards Rent-A-Plane was first owner.

[601]

Aussie

14.07.1983. It returned to the register on 22.08.1985

What happened to RUT during the period 14.07.1983 til 22.08.1985?

[AussieO2]

When withdrawn from the register, RUT was registered to a helicopter operator in Kununurra, guess:- was damaged and required repair?, prob sold off by insurance company as is, then appeared in 1985 with Ian Baillie and he sold it to the meat bombing boys in Packenham the following month.

[Qanchor]

Would anyone have a pic of a Co-Air, (Lae, PNG), Islander circa 1980?
Thanks

[alisoncc]

Closest I can get: Circa 1971.

http://users.on.net/~alisoncc/tpng2.jpg

[parabellum]

Also a rear view of the Shorts SC7 Skyvan! 'Melody in Metal' or, if you prefer,
'The Whispering Nissen Hut'!

[alisoncc]

Are you sure it's the rear. I thought going by the aerofoil cross-section of the fuselage it would have been the front. :)

Right at the back was Patairs DC3. I believe to have been the property of one General D. McArthur during WWII.

[Eh Pilot]

There is definitely a lot of negative stuff to say about the mighty BN2, but overall it is a fantastic plane. Designed for a purpose and it delivered. Where can you take 9pax and full bags out of a 400metre strip in 35degrees? Flew 16 different registered Islanders ranging from Torres Straits to Caribbean to Botswana. Glad to say, I have finished BN2 flying after a deafening 2750hours but hey would I do it again?


Sorry I can't hear you anyway....sorry what was the question?

[Pinky the pilot]

Just re-read the entire thread (purely for the hell of it:E) and noted that early in the thread there was mention of some short sectors in PNG and elsewhere.


In the Goilala province the distance between Guari and Kamulai was only about two to three miles in a direct line. About a days walk though!:eek:

Airborne out of Guari put you on base for Kamulai.

Will have to drag out my maps and Dz one way strip book to check circuit altitudes and elevations.

Guari was the first place where someone (a young kid actually) took a shot at me with a bow and arrow as I took off!:eek: Missed by miles.:p

[Capt Fathom]

Kabwum Valley, Indagen to Konge. About 2 or 3 miles across the valley at the same elevation.

After takeoff, the only thing you had to do before landing was select landing flap!

And give your departure and arrival call to Lae on the HF .... right!

[JekiJock]

Wow. 135 knots! Mine gets 120 on a good day haha. Been flying these wonderful machines in Africa for the last 4 years. I'll always love 'em.

[j3pipercub]

There was talk of RUT earlier in the thread (last year). This was her when I was flying her a while back.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo342/j3pipercub/IMG_0466.jpg (http://s390.photobucket.com/user/j3pipercub/media/IMG_0466.jpg.html)

And I've probably posted these somewhere before

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo342/j3pipercub/IMGP2162-1.jpg (http://s390.photobucket.com/user/j3pipercub/media/IMGP2162-1.jpg.html)

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo342/j3pipercub/DSCN2800.jpg (http://s390.photobucket.com/user/j3pipercub/media/DSCN2800.jpg.html)

[Jabawocky]

J3, the critter reckons it never rains in Hervey Bay :} Sure figs in though :ok:

Good pics.

[asw28-866]

Another one of the RUTster around the same vintage as J3's, this time on 'The Rock', happy days...

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/CaptNia/bongo_zps612e2488.jpg

'866

[Exascot]

This was the one I used to fly. You could land before the free fall paras :ok:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32684975/GWOTG.jpg

[RadioSaigon]

Wow. 135 knots! Mine gets 120 on a good day...

Ya need to get ya elevator neutral bro. If that's all you're seeing, I'll bet you have her flying 2-3 deg nose-up in the cruise. I've flown 5-6 different airframes and used to expect -and see- 140KIAS in the cruise.

[j3pipercub]

Jaba,

Yeah can soup in quite well at times.

866

They were happy days, on the days like the one in the photo :-) I miss being 'stuck in the RUT'.

[Pinky the pilot]

Shortest flight, 500 yards horizontally to perceived safety inside the wire.

I detect a bit of a story there JENKINS. Would you care to share it?:ok: