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onthebumline
1st May 2011, 12:56
I am fast approaching 2000hrs rotary, the pre requisite umber of hours to complete the current mil bridging package to qualify for a JAR CPL(H) under the terms of the current Qualified Service Pilot exemptions in the JAR-FCL LASORS. I am also aware of the impending rule changes under EASA. I am aware that loads of people in a similar position to me are rushing to BGS to get "studying ;-)" for thier package.

I am not one of those people.......here is my reasoning and logic as to why.

From this document

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/srg_l&ts_EuropeanLegislation_TheExpectedEffectsontheLicensingofPil otsintheUK_March2011_v2.pdf

The bit applying to the changes to QSP terms are in 7.1 and 7.2. From what I can make of it, they will need to come up with new rules but are not in any way saying that they will not have a military experience accreditation.

Now the interesting bit for me is that the French will be a major influence on the new rules, if not for any other reason than the froggy equivalent of the CAA (DGAC DSAC) actually seem to a) like pilots and b) acknowledge that the training of military helicopter pilots pi55es all over the training you get in a Robbo R22 with some chimp with 151 Hours in a single piston who is essentially just hours buliding so they don't have to keep doing what they are doing.

Anyway the french pre-requisite for a CPL(H) for a QSP is as follows:

EXPERIENCE MINIMUM REQUISE :
• 500 heures de vol en tant que pilote commandant de bord d'hélicoptères.
• 10 heures de vol sur campagne comme commandant de bord sur hélicoptères monopilotes, comprenant un vol
d'un minimum de 185 km (100 NM) au cours duquel aura été effectué un atterrissage complet de l'hélicoptère sur
deux aérodromes différents de celui de départ.
• 10 heures de formation aux instruments, dont 5 heures au maximum au sol.
• 5 heures de vol effectuées de nuit comprenant au minimum 1 heure de navigation sur campagne, et 5 décollages et
atterrissages complets en solo, incluant chacun un circuit.

- 500Hrs P1
- 10 Hours X country
- 10 Hours instruments
- 5 Hours at night........spooky.

If you have all this then you get a CPL(H). No more questions. No mil bridging package......no silly flow-diagrams etc etc. Just a licence plain and simple.

The point I am eventually getting to is that the french........who absolutely love nothing more than a jolly good strike, would be up in arms if the EASA rules changed to make thier current rules more stringent.......i.e. more like ours. Therefore I think that the rule changes, unless the CAA dig in to try and rinse some more money out of mil pilots like they do so well, will be more like the french ones and so we can all stand by to collect out CPLs.

i) Anyone got any thoughts on this?
ii) Am I talking rubbish?
iii) Should I phone BGS ASAP?

BL

PS As usual spelling mistake comments in backsides pse

High_Expect
1st May 2011, 13:54
What did the Roman's ever do for us?

..... To be fair, I think you may have a point! Fingers crossed.

I'm Off!
1st May 2011, 16:28
At a guess I'd say there is an element of truth in what you say. Where we differ is the outcome - EASA will leave single country opt-outs and schemes to be run by their individual CAAs, leaving the French with their very cosy 500hr scheme, and the UK with a giant flow diagram and a 2000hr hoop to jump through. Rather like it is today...

Lest we forget, when Armee De l'Air pilots finish their commission and join Air France, they take all of their Mil seniority with them. Are we to expect something similar in the UK? No, thought not...

onthebumline
1st May 2011, 17:13
"Where we differ is the outcome - EASA will leave single country opt-outs and schemes to be run by their individual CAAs,"


From 3.2 of the CAA document in the first post, my interpretation of any "opt-out" will be for a finite period only to allow for national authorities to implement any necessary changes so that, by 2015, they will be fully compliant with EASA directives. Surely this would mean that there could only be one rule pan europe.

If this was not the case, we really would have to question if the CAA are implying that the French military pilot is more qualified than the British military pilot.

A and C
1st May 2011, 17:26
If you don't like the UK CAA's interpritation of the rules why not apply for your CPL in another UK state?

nice castle
1st May 2011, 21:11
All you suggest is true, but it would take massive cahoonas to sit back and gamble on that being the outcome. Given the current bridging packages' simplicity and cost, my thoughts were to get it in the bag and see what happens after 8 Apr 12. You pays yer money......or not, as the case may be.

Good luck - you may be sitting smug laughing at dudes like me who have forked out the dough...

Trim Stab
2nd May 2011, 10:43
There is a key procedural difference between French and UK systems.

French military flight training establishments have EASA FTO status, and trainees do EASA ATPL exams, so their flying training is automatically validated by EASA towards EASA qualifications. The minimum experience that you quote is the same minimum experience required for issue of CPL(H) to an entirely civvy pilot.

UK QSPs do not do ATPL exams as part of their groundschool, nor does their training take place in EASA FTOs, so it is not valid for EASA qualfications as far as EASA is concerned.

High_Expect
2nd May 2011, 14:18
At least with the first major overhaul of flying training in... ???years we're looking forward and ensuring we future proof the system. Obviously all the MFTS flying sites will be EASA FTO approved.... Oh no, wait a second.... they're not :ugh:

Perhaps we should all go to France to do FT? :oh:

A and C
2nd May 2011, 18:59
The RAF has always been reluctent to train anyone to a civil qualification standard (be they flight crew or ground engineers) after all they don't want the staff leaving for a better paid job.

So the policy has been to keep all the RAF personel badly informed about the options of how to convert to civil qualifications up until the moment when they are due to leave.

GipsyMagpie
4th May 2011, 01:31
I have done the bridging and have my CPL(H) and mcc credit. I did it with just 1600 hrs in my logbook by using 400 hrs of sim time. Perfectly legitimately. And do I think the process will get easier with EASA? Ah, that will happen the day the CAA charge a sensible fee for anything. Do the bridging now for the sole reason that you only do 3 exams under the current interim arrangements: bridging, air law and op procedures. At a minimum that will become 4 with performance from April (my guess) and they'll become helicopter specific which is less useful if you intend to get your aeroplane licences.

So my advice? Take them for everything they've got now before your kicking yourself tomorrow. I have a lovely silver licence ready to go with 5 years still to serve and getting an fi(h) squared too...and you have? Yep, sod all...get on with it! Any q's, feel free to pm.

Plus the reason its 2000 hrs is because its linked to getting an atpl. Now don't get me started on that!

LeavingSoon
4th May 2011, 20:40
Does anyone happen to know if a standards check needs to be annotated in a certain way in your logbook for it to count as a CPL Skills Test? (or can I use one I have already done with no mention of licenses in the entry?)

Thanks in advance

LS

PlasticCabDriver
4th May 2011, 23:23
I took the sortie report form the QHI wrote, rewrote it into civvy speak, and got him to sign that one as well, and sent that with the application. Did the job. Did help that he worked for me though!