Private or commercial?

[Danger Banglington]

Recently finished CPL(a) and need to get hours up. If i make a face book page and invite all my friends to join it and allow friends to invite friends. This page will let them all know that i have a licence and am willing to fly them where ever they like and all they will be paying for is the rental of the aircraft. Will this be classified as private flying? or would it be a commercial operation as i have "advertised" on face book? even though i wont be making any money for the flight.

[ravan]

This sort of question has been thrashed to death on these forums a "million" times in the past.
Quite apart from the question of "advertising" on Facebook, if you want it to be a private operation, you will have to contribute an equal share of the rental.

[Danger Banglington]

righto, thanks

[Ultralights]

borrow $30K, buy a cheap Jabiru LSA, fly it for 500/750 hrs, then sell it on for $29K..

[VH-XXX]

Ultralights, you didn't factor in the cost of the engine overhaul. Otherwise it looked attractive.

[Ultralights]

yeah, my bad forgot about the mandatory 300 Hr Jab engine rebuilds...
well, borrow $30K, and get something rotax powered... then add cost of regular 50 and 100 hrly oil changes, and all will be good! :}

[tail wheel]

Read CAR210 before you advertise on Facebook. You will commit an offense before you even get airborne.

[cficare]

dont advertise...and...all costs(hire/landing charges/fuel) associated with the use of the a/c must be shared equally

[VH-XXX]

In reality even if you have a lot of friends you'll struggle to find many that will want to pay $200 an hour to have you fly them around in a clapped out Warrior or similar. For $89 they can fly to the Gold Coast *Conditions apply. You are best off working hard to make bank.

[Danger Banglington]

Ok so splitting of costs is fairly clear.

But, in relation to CAR 210, is it a public announcement if you limit the face book page to friends only?
and where do you draw the line? would a status update letting people know you have a pilots licence be classified as advertising?

might drop CASA an email to clear it up. il post the reply when i get one. hopefully this year sometime.


They don't like to make it easy, do they.

[Danger Banglington]

yeh its more for short scenic flights. like buzzing around there local suburb trying to find there house. or goin up and down the beaches. i've had lots of interest in harbour scenic flight in sydney harbour once i posted a few photos up. In this case it works out a lot cheaper than scenic flight operators in the area.

[XX-ANY]

You hold a CPL and you have to ask this on Prune??

[Howard Hughes]

might drop CASA an email to clear it up. il post the reply when i get one
Can't imagine CASA would have a policy on Facebook, give them a few years to catch up!:ok:

[tail wheel]

Yes, I wonder why if you hold a CPL you need to ask that question on PPRuNe? :confused:

Without an AOC, your CPL is a piece of paper that permits you to fly privately.

And you're going to ask CASA whether you can conduct a CAR 206(1)(b) operation without an AOC? :} :}

Seriously, what answer do you think you will get - assuming you get a response? :E

[knightflyer]

This could be one of the shortest held CPL's in the history of Australian aviation. If you have already advertised on Facebook as per your first post, friends or not, you have already committed an offence, if you don't share all costs equally you will commit an offence. Also, expect an FOI or two to be around asking questions of your pax as to how much they and you are paying towards the cost of the flight.
Finally, what if anything are they teaching in CPL Air Law these days???:ugh::ugh:

[Danger Banglington]

ok forget about that original post.

so it will be private flying as i will be splitting the cost.

But what im getting at is. i would like to let as many of my mates know that i have a licence. and as i have a connection to most of my mates through face book, that would be the quickest way in doing this. so if any of them have an interest in going for a flight. I can take them up, where ever they want to go. (which is usually around sydney harbour or along the beaches), This way i get hours up for half or a third of the price, they get a ride, everyones happy.
I will still be paying for the flight along with the passengers.

So every students that has just passed a PPL flight test and posts on face book something like "Just got my ppl, who wants to go flying?" is breaking the law?

[JustJoinedToSearch]

CAR 2

(7A)An aircraft that carries persons on a flight, otherwise than in accordance with a fixed schedule between terminals, is employed in a private operation if: (a) public notice of the flight has not been given by any form of public advertisement or announcement; and


This is the part of the CARs that deals with what you are talking about.


I don't have facebook (I think the whole thing is stupid and I'm gen Y believe it or not) so someone may correct me on this, but as far as I am aware you can either have a public or private setting. If it's set to public then the bolded passage is clearly violated and you can't do it.


However, if your profile is set to private and only your friends can see it then functionally it's the same as calling them all indivdually and telling them (which is legal) but more efficient.


Still expect CARA to hang you out to dry if you are caught on some stupid interpretation by a crusty old FOI who woke up on the wrong side of bed.

[601]

Recently finished CPL(a) and need to get hours up. If i make a face book page and invite all my friends to join it and allow friends to invite friends. This page will let them all know that i have a licence and am willing to fly them where ever they like and all they will be paying for is the rental of the aircraft. Will this be classified as private flying? or would it be a commercial operation as i have "advertised" on face book? even though i wont be making any money for the flight.

Don't they teach anything about the CAR/CASR at flying schools these days. If they did you would not be asking the question. Get copies and read them for you own benefit.

[MyNameIsIs]

i would like to let as many of my mates know that i have a licence

Why not just tell them face to face?
I mean, are they really your mates or are they just some random face book "friends" that "know" you because they met a friend of yours once at a party that you happened to be at?


face book... :rolleyes:

[PyroTek]

I mean, are they really your mates or are they just some random face book "friends" that "know" you because they met a friend of yours once at a party that you happened to be at?What is the definition of friend exactly?:cool:
It's irrelevant however, this is just the difference between private and public notice. I'd call facebook private notice IF privacy settings are set in that way. The people on your 'friends' list on Facebook are there because you approved them to be there and see your posts. However, I'd probably end up sending private messages to a bunch of people ('friends') who I could see myself flying with.

Pyro.

edit: Hah, I like the wordfilter :P

[Ozzie Mozzie]

Mining charters ofter scheduled services from fixed bases becuase they are not available to the public generally, I think the wording goes.

If you set up a facebook group and set it to private and only invite select friends (maybe only invite close friends or ones you know will part with cash) then I dont think that can be considered public advertising. You still have to share the costs though obviously.

Who's going to know anyway, it's not like you would bring it up on a public forumm and stitch yourself right up...