How to polish up rusty RT?

[Phil73805]

Like the subject line says, I'd like to polish up my RT, how do I go about it?

I've been flying on and off for around 6 years now (after getting my license), and am aware that there have been some changes to RT in that time. I know my way comfortably around Information service RT but have little confidence on anything 'bigger'.

Books, CD's, Online?

Thanks

[BackPacker]

Google for "live ATC" and spend a few hours listening to your favourite airfield. Preferably one which has a mix of IFR and VFR traffic.

[Phil73805]

That only seems to cover American airfields?

(Edit: or rather no UK airfields for some reason)

[BackPacker]

I'm not sure but I think UK law specifically forbids this.

If you can't find anything UK, I can recommend EHRD (Rotterdam), particularly on a good weekend.

[chevvron]

Get an airband radio and listen to a Heathrow frequency, but don't tell anyone else what you hear!!

[Conventional Gear]

I hardly pick anything up on airband receivers unless I'm practically at the airfield, sort of defeats the object, you may as well ask ATC if you can visit for the day :confused:

I've yet really to find a solution to this problem. I wish we could get UK feeds. My RT has taken by far the biggest 'hit' after a long break from flying and wish I could find a sensible solution. There are some Irish feeds available on the net such as Dublin and Shannon.

IF the case is there is a law against the public listening in, I don't see why holders of an FROL shouldn't be able to log into a website? Something for NATS to think about for us? Poor R/T unfortunately leads to poor airmanship and I sure would rather be sat here listening to a selection of good UK feed than ignoring the problem.

[BackPacker]

I hardly pick anything up on airband receivers unless I'm practically at the airfield

Build yourself a better antenna. It took me about 10 minutes to create a simple dipole antenna from stuff I had lying around anyway. I put it in the attic and the reception quality increased dramatically. I'm 15 km away from Schiphol and I can even pick up the departure ATIS.

But, yes, VHF is line-of-sight so regardless of antenna quality, there will be transmitters which you'll simply not be able to receive.

[thing]

You could do worse than go through CAP 413 CAP 413 Radiotelephony Supplement 3: A Reference Guide to UK Radiotelephony Phraseology for General Aviation Pilots | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=3749) where they have speech embedded into it so you can listen to what should be said. It's hardly how ATC actually transmit but you get the gist.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Agreed with Backpacker: a better antenna will help a lot. Then again, his dipole is NOT the best answer. Dipoles are directional and that's OK for receiving TWR (after careful alignment) but not for traffic aloft.

[magpienja]

I would agree...if you are in range of a suitable airfield that has the type of operation you are interested in...then listen in on a scanner on there twr and app freq....

I did it for years before I started flying....helped me no end...in fact I still often have the scanner on earwigging as they say,

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413Supplement.pdf

Added the link in case you have not come across it...includes audio.

Nick.

[reportyourlevel]

(ATCO here) I find half the battle with RT is remembering the phrases, the other half is the reaction your brain has when it hears you saying something that it thinks sounds daft. I overcame both of these by practicing saying the phrases out loud, first from a sheet and then from memory. Try using the CAP413 and getting a mate to read out the controller bits, with you replying. Oh and a top tip: if you can't remember the standard phrase (or there isn't one), it's no problem to use normal English as long as it is clear and concise.

[Captain Smithy]

Practice is probably the best way... study CAP413 and have a good listen to the RT at your local airfield with an Airband, will help.

[Piltdown Man]

When you do get to speak, remember it goes (according to a certain John Kowalski in Florida, to whom I'm eternally grateful: "Who you are, where you're at and what you want." Keep to that and you and you won't go far wrong.

PM

[jkveenstra]

I started a similar thread a few months ago.

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/443395-ways-train-your-rt.html

Perhaps it's helpfull

[sunday driver]

Phil

Have also been brushing up after a bit of a lay-off.
All the above is good - reading the book, listening to others (a bit frustrating though - can't always get both ends of the conversation)

Then booked 2 trips with an instructor - he chose the destinations, both through 3 or 4 different controllers, me doing the radio, he to prompt if necessary.

Then a trip with a new flying partner - one leg flying, one leg radio/nav.

Then a solo trip to Coventry and back (eventful, but my phraseology was very acceptable)

Made a point of revising the bookwork between each trip to reinforce the weak spots.

I still need practice, but now I feel better about it. :8

SD

[RTN11]

Since every piece of RT comes from cap 413, all the responses can pretty much be expected.

Try writing a flow diagram of your initial calls and the possible come backs...

"standby"
"squawk..."
"remain clear of controlled airspace"

and so on.

Then hand it to a friend and get them to do the other side of the conversation. It's how I polished up my initial calls for a service, and anything else is just a formality. They don't even have to be a pilot, they just read what you've already written out.

[18greens]

The first thing I was ever told about radio and it has served me well is:

1) Ask clearly for what you want
2) Never say 'Er...'

The rest is just details.

[IO540]

3) Speak to as few units as possible
4) Say as little as possible

I started off by writing down common calls onto post-it pads which I stuck to the kneeboard.

Much PPL training gets you to call up everybody enroute. So you get people calling up Goodwood for a Basic Service.... what's the point?

[PompeyPaul]

If you are going to go into the ATZ then you really need to call up Goodwood. Otherwise it can be polite if you are going to over fly them.

I must admit etiquette of who to call, to a self admitted socially awkward computer geek, is incredibly difficult. It's almost like in other languages where you have to agonise if it's now OK to refer to somebody as tu/vous or jij/u but far more ambigious.

I especially detest the oxford AIAA where you can overfly several airfields, in a space controlled by AIAA, just WHO do you talk to ? The airfield, the aiaa controller or maybe just London Information ?

Now I understand why those PPL exams were made of questions that all had right answers but some were more "right" than others....

[SunnyDayInWiltshire]

I bought a CD of the Oxford RT audio tutorial from EBay and listened to that in the car/on the iPod. It slowly got ingrained and reinforced the book learning from CAP413.

Mutual flying with more experienced and confident pilots also helps

SD