Unions and Companies - Who sets the rules?

[shon7]

Met a pilot yesterday and had a very interesting talk with him about the pilots union. He said that Unions are key and essential, otherwise management will just exploit you to no end. . .. .However what struck me as odd was this statement that he made-. .. .First he said ," Companies don't dictate our terms and conditions that we follow - the unions do." . .. .Any comments as to the validity/truth of this statement? This becomes even more interesting in light of the Atlas Air fiasco

[tinyrice]

Not quite. The employees and the company exchange contract "openers". These are the pay and the conditions that both sides deem absolutely necessary to maintain the earth in its orbit, and the planets in their ken. Both sides then retreat to the nearest hostelry where they fall about laughing at what the other parties are demanding. They then negotiate a contract based around these demands, recognizing that they will fail to fully satisfy either party. But then thats the nature of labour/management negotiations. Both sides will grudgingly sign the contract and claim in victory that they shafted the other side. Managements job is to maximize shareholder value. If they can do that by paying the peasantry peanuts, all well and good. Unions grew out of the desire of the workforce to earn enough from their labour for a few pints of Ruddles to go with their peanuts - and - get a bit of respect along the way. Labor/management discussions in aviation have always been "lively" and probably always will be.

[Dockjock]

The result of the company/union negotiations is the contract that must be followed by both sides. So yes, in a purely theoretical way, pilots are employed by their union, which is in turn employed by a company. Some may say, especially if the union is very powerful and influential, and has just secured a seemingly incredible contract, that the union "dictates" their conditions of employment. Obviously not entirely true, but once the contract is in place the pilot does have to be equally accountable to the company and union.