PVR date vs Pension calculation

[StopStart]

A hypothetical situation if I may.

Marvellous aviator and all round splendid chap, serving on the PA Spine, decides, following a morale crushing posting, that the Servicing of Her Maj is perhaps no longer for him and that a quick spot of PVR-ing would actually be in order.

Our hero has however only served 4 yrs and 8 months on PAS and is aware that one is required to complete a full 5 years on the PA Spine if one is to enjoy the unlimited glory and fabulous wealth that comes with the PA pension.

A question then for the assembled Pprune experts....

Is our hero's pension calculation based on the day he PVRs or on his last day of Service? i.e. by PVRing today would his pension be based on only having done 4yrs 8months on PA or would it be based on the 4yrs 8 months plus the 6 months PVR time? Pension calculator suggests there's about £17K of commuted lump sum at stake here so best get this right...

I - sorry - he has tried the JPAC but has so far received little in the way of coherent advice. He's awaiting written advice from them but is curious in the meantime.

Any wisdom gladly received!

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Just wait the extra 4 months to be absolutely certain, and in the mean time BA may have opened their doors up to people that don't qualify for the Managed Path scheme!

[FFP]

I'm going with time served until your exit date. You're still giving "service" during the PVR period. That's just my best guess though.......:ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

If the blunties can f@ck then f@uck you they will so as a previous poster suggested do the 4 months.......how you do those 4 months is another matter entirely :ok:

What ever happens best wishes to you young man.

[The Old Fat One]

99 percent certain it is exit date.

You can request a pension projection for a hypothetical exit date any time you want from the Armed Forces Pension Agency.

Or, pay a few quid membership and ask the Forces Pension Society.

Nobody can stuff you over your pension...the rules is the rules.

[StopStart]

50/50 each way so far! JPAC said day you PVR ("but not entirely sure") and DeskO said last day of service (but likewise unsure!).

Common sense would suggest that one believe nothing and trust no-one and that sticking out the next few months would be the belt-n-braces option. However I live in an equal amount of fear that approximately 30 seconds before BA announce the commencement of Non-TR DEP recruiting the RAF will up the PVR exit time from the current 6 months to something tedious like 2 years...

TOFO - thanks for the reminder! I'm already a member!! Doh. :rolleyes: I worry myself, I really do....

SFFP - Cheers old bean, never thought I'd see the day :(

[Not Long Here]

Your pension is set at the day you leave the service. No ifs and buts. Thats what happened with mine - I got exactly what I expected based on the date I joined till day I left.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Stoppers, I don't think that the Air Force would be that spiteful/manage it, so as PVR times go up by as much as you say in a 4 month period. That being said, stranger things have happened. I guess its one of those make or break decisions! Nonetheless, Good luck to you, here's hoping BA start recruiting DE FO non TR chaps soon. I wonder if a lot of people are going to leave when the airline market picks up and if the numbers will take manning by surprise?

[Just This Once...]

Stoppers, suggest you tread carefully as pretty much everyone is correct, from a certain point of view. Your pension includes every day of qualifying service, which will include the time served during your PVR waiting time.

The bit I would be concerned about will be the PA ToS as you may (the supporting leaflets have the detail) be transferred off the PA Spine on PVR if you have not made the required RoS. You will still get the pension calculated till the day you actually leave but this may not be on PAS terms - it would be like the PA Spine never happened. From memory you should be ok but you really must check. The devil is in the detail with all PA Spine RoS and ToS.

[Tiger_mate]

My understanding was that the 5 year rule whilst certainly the case when PA was introduced was subsequently deleted due to EEC ruling. In cases as important as this "Not quite sure" from people who should be SME is a pretty poor show, if not unsurprising.

I am stunned by how rife PVR is at a time when many could wait for redundancy opportunities.

[Arty Fufkin]

There are no redundancy opportunities for pilots.

I'm not entirely sure that manning know the size of the problem that's going to hit them in the next year or so. The only people I work with who are not openly discussing the timing of their impending PVR are the first tourist co-pilots who are looking at 6 years RoS post OCU. And most of them are studying for their ATPLs anyway. That and a few deluded half-wits who are convinced they will make it to CAS level. (Although the half-wits will be the only ones left so they might be in with a shout.)

People always used to talk about the grass appearing greener in the airlines; its not so much that, but the distinctly sh#te shade of brown that it has become in the RAF that will push people to civvy flying.

Thats better.

[Al R]

Stoppers,

What was the outcome for this marvellous aviator and all round splendid chap?

[Winco]

SS

Was in a similar situation myself when I called it a day.

In my case, it wasn't so important re pension etc. but the pricipal is the same. The important date is (or was in my day) your LAST day of service but..................................... and its a big but!

Whist you can 'choose' your exit date through PVR, the 'system' does NOT have to accept it and can, as was my case, choose their own PVR date! If they elect to let you go ealrlier than your request, and 'their' date falls within your 4 months window, then you are stuffed, big time!! So do be careful.

I think I would do the 4 months, safe in the knowledge that you will be finacially screwed.

Winco

[chopabeefer]

Is anyone able to direct me to a reference where it actually says that PA has a 5 year 'hold' before a person leaving would get the PA pension? I became PA a few years back but never saw anything to this effect in writing. Am I being very naiive (entirely possible) or is this a bit of an urban myth?

[Al R]

Whist you can 'choose' your exit date through PVR, the 'system' does NOT have to accept it and can, as was my case, choose their own PVR date! If they elect to let you go ealrlier than your request, and 'their' date falls within your 4 months window, then you are stuffed, big time!! So do be careful.



That was the danger that stood out to me. I can't see anyone doing it maliciously to a serviceman to stuff them over pensions provision, but for many reasons, the potential is there for it to happen.

[Diablo Rouge]

There was (is) a lot of confusion regarding the 5 year ROS as it was suggested in 2003 to be applicable to both PAS and the 05 pension. As T_M has said above, the ROS was (I also believe) binned in the middle of 05 following a legal challenge and thus precident set. If it does not exist, you will not find any documentation regarding it, although I do not know how far back the Pprune archives (search) go as I expect it to be the subject of discussion at that time.

AL1 I do not have the time to go through this link with a nit comb but it may be the one you need:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/205516-pas-changes.html

[Exiled]

In response to chopabeefer's query, the clause is within the Scheme's Perogative Instrument which can be found on the Defence Intranet/Admin/Armed Forces Pensions page. It reads:

(c) where condition C is met, any day not falling within a continuous period of at least five years throughout which the member’s pay was calculated using the professional aviators’ pay spine;

(condition C is being on the PA Spine)

[Winco]

Al R,

Yes, you would hope not wouldn't you, however, I do know of a MACR who had that very thing happen to him.

In his case PMA chose a date earlier than that he had requested, and it resulted in him having to pay back his £5k FRI they had paid him earlier!

Do beware!! If this government can save money, no matter how little and no matter how they go about it........then they will do I think!

[Ali Barber]

If they can spitefully slash your flying pay when you PVR, I assume they have a similar capability to mess around the PA bunch, which may include dropping you from the PAS. Only guessing!

[StopStart]

Interesting stuff, cheers. It would seem that there are a multitude of ways of being shafted that I hadn't even considered. I suspect grinning and bearing it for another 12 weeks might be the safer option; all I have to do now is squeeze in a year's leave before August.

[Marly Lite]

Anybody out there done this lately? I'm over 4 years into PAS (pilot) and I have had enough. Do I wait for the 5 year PAS point until I PVR, or do I press the button now, and let the 12 month PVR period take me over the 5 years qualifying period for PAS pension credits?

[Door Slider]

Anybody out there done this lately? I'm over 4 years into PAS (pilot) and I have had enough. Do I wait for the 5 year PAS point until I PVR, or do I press the button now, and let the 12 month PVR period take me over the 5 years qualifying period for PAS pension credits?

You can PVR pretty much when you like, when you press the button JPA asks you for the date you wish to leave. As long as the date is past your RoS/PVR waiting time then you’re good to go.

[Countdown begins]

You can PVR pretty much when you like, when you press the button JPA asks you for the date you wish to leave. As long as the date is past your RoS/PVR waiting time then you’re good to go.
This is your answer. You could also pm Lima Juliet on here to confirm.

[Marly Lite]

Thanks DS, been rummaging around an overflowing home filing cabinet trying to find my PAS paperwork! I'll get something more concrete off ****Sharepoint next week if i can.

[artyhug]

Marly,

I left this year having done 5 years to the day after transferring to PAS ToS.

I PVR/ET’d in JPA about 13 months prior and simply set the appropriate date in the box.

Simples.

[Marly Lite]

:ok: Thanks!