JAA IR(A) Learning Objectives

[Anonystude]

I know it's more applicable to the commercial side of the house, but there seem to be a few experts on here when it comes to European regulation!

Does anyone know where I can obtain a copy of the learning objectives for the flying side (as opposed to theoretical knowledge) of the JAA IR(A) (similar to page 2-D-7 onwards (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Section%202%20Subpart%20D%20-%20Amdt%205%20_JAR-FCL%201_.pdf) of this document for the CPL(A))? The corresponding document (Sec 2 Subpart E) on the CAA website just contains a solitary page with an example IR(A) Skills Test report form...

[S-Works]

Each approved FTO submits there own.

[Anonystude]

Really? That's surprisingly flexible! I was hoping for a definitive list of 'stuff JAA deem necessary to learn to be issued an IR(A)'; I suspect that was wishful thinking given the variance in IFR strategies and regulation across Europe.

Does that mean there's no standard list of competencies required for the initial issue of an IR(A) in JAA-land then?

[S-Works]

As far as I am aware that is the case.

I wrote ours by extracting the content from the skill test and creating learning objective from it that met CAA approval. There is not really that much to cover is there!

ADF/NDB
VOR
Airways Entry/Exit
Holds
Approaches

Aircraft Handling

[IO540]

So what do they spend 50/55 hours doing in the cockpit?

A half competent IMCR holder will know this stuff already, but he gets zero credit.

Only an ICAO IR holder gets some credit. But even he has to endure the mind numbing utter bull***t of the 7 IR exams which are less than 5% relevant to any kind of flying.

What is the name of "your" FTO, bose-x? I'd like to do my JAA IR there. It sounds even easier than that new setup in Albania.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The learning objectives are here (http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl_objectives.html).

Personally I hate minimum hours syllabi with a vengeance. Make the pass standard clear and non-negotiable, and let pilots and FTOs sort out between themselves how to reach that point. This is whether it's a PPL, CPL or IR.

G

[Anonystude]

Sorry Genghis, but that's the Theoretical Knowledge. I was after the practical side...

[S-Works]

Genghis the question was about the practical aspects not the TK.....

IO540 - Yep! You could come and be our first IR student. What fun.... :p:p

[IO540]

Well, I have just spent 5 minutes on google looking for an FTO called "Yep" but without success.

This is unusual. Normally, 5 mins on google is quite productive.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I sometimes think that I'm the only person who knows how to find stuff online. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_01.PDF)

G

[Anonystude]

G, I have that as well. What I was after was the JAA list of required competencies (as in JAR-FCL 1 Section 2 and the AMC) for someone to be issued an IR(A). The skills test guidance is useful, but not what I'm after...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Err, if passing the skill test isn't it, what competencies are there?

G

[Anonystude]

Because I require the 'official' JAA list rather than my own 'homebrew' list taken from 'Guidance' for the IR(A) Skills Test...!

[S-Works]

As far as I am aware there is not one. Oh, dejavu!

[IO540]

I have just worked out where bose-x's "FTO" is located. It is at that secret airport (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/corfu/albania-another-airport.jpg) in Albania, which is shown only on pre-1998 USAF ONC charts (my G3 one shows it). The giveaway is that long straight taxiway which goes into the bunker in the hills which minimises time spent in the open, on the ground. Absolute discretion is important in any business which wishes to deviate from European standards.

[S-Works]

As far as I am aware there is not one. Oh, dejavu!

Each FTO creates a training course that they believe will meet the objective of the candidate passing the final skill test and submits it for approval.

[Anonystude]

Thanks, bose-x. I get it. I was explaining to Genghis why the Standards Document wouldn't cut it.

[S-Works]

I have just worked out where bose-x's "FTO" is located. It is at that secret airport in Albania, which is shown only on pre-1998 USAF ONC charts (my G3 one shows it). The giveaway is that long straight taxiway which goes into the bunker in the hills which minimises time spent in the open, on the ground. Absolute discretion is important in any business which wishes to deviate from European standards.


Good god Peter what an earth are you rambling on about? Have you been sniffing the circuit board cleaner again?

UK FTO-966 if you really need to know!

[red9]

but who and where is UK FTO-966 ? I need to make decisions about getting a JAA IR soon myself , so why is it a secret ? I dont understand ? :sad:

[Grassfield]

Anonystude,

This is maybe the official documentation you're after.

http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf

Check appendixes 1 to jar-fcl 1.205 flight instruction IR(A) and appendix 1 & 2 to jar-fcl 1.210 skill test IR(A). All this starts on page 1-E-4.

/G

[red9]

perhaps I am missing something but I cant find in that document actual requirements for passing each section of an IR, ie airways entry / exit, holds, NP approaches etc ?
Or , for that matter what a teaching objective would be for each part ?

[S-Works]

Because there are none. Each FTO submits a course for approval that they believe will cover enough areas for the candidate to pass the test. Most courses are roughly the same as the information is shared around the industry.

When I wrote my course outline I was given an example guideline to work from and had to populate the rest myself. The same thing when I wrote training, ops, quality and SMS manuals.

It's a bit odd that the theory is very clearly laid down but the practical is very wooly!

[red9]

Bose : I like your practical approach to it, rather than the convoluted approach made by some FTO's !!
Is the FTO you work for in the USA ? would I have to do the IR there or does your FTO have a distance learning ( and hopefully flying) program ?

[S-Works]

TK learning is seperate from an FTO approval. I have no intention of seeking approval to do TK courses. There are enough out there already and the approvals are expensive. If you are looking for TK, then someone like CATS, Oxford or Bristol are your best option.

I would be happy to talk to you about practical training when you are ready to cross that bridge, feel free to drop me a PM.